FX Fx impact m4, why did they got rid of 1st reg?

[athlon_oved]

Having never worked with a compressability factor of other than 1 in a dynamic pneumatic system:

A. 200 bar to 150 bar working range made sense for my 10 meter competition pistols.

B. I treat the 250 bar pressure limit stated on my Impact as a MAX pressure limit, NOT a max Working pressure limit.

C. As such if it's going to be 60 to 100°F at the range, I charge the tank to 200 bar. If less than 60°F I charge to 220 bar. So even with thermal expansion I am below 230 bar and the system is working with a compressability factor of 1 or very close to 1.

you can treat it how you want. UA sells 300bar AirMarksman bottles on Impacts this includes the 1 reg M4. not sure what your talking about there. I think they would know if FX didn't support it on the Impact platform.
FX has stated several times that the 250 stated on the side of the Impact is talking about the standard bottle that comes with them.

 

[coastal drifter]

Seems like a lot of shots 100-125 on 50 bar more air that's 1/2 bar per shot? or less, I guess I didn't realize how big a 580 bottle is

 

[EliteAirCustoms]

I liked the concept of the 2 regs on my M3 when I first got it but it left me wanting after I played with it a while. One of the ideals was to have the air from the bottle (in transit to the plenum) be just slightly above the second reg setting (air in the plenum) for better consistency and lower deviations between shots. I'm more a hunter than a target guy so it bummed me out to learn that the trade off for that consistency was the increased time to fill the plenum between shots. In small game hunting, like running squirrels in treetops, I need that recovery time to my plenum to be pretty quick. For targets you got all the time you need unless your shoot Speed Competition matches. So, if you had time to wait for the plenum it might shaved 3-4 fps off your deviation and extreme spread. But, if you have to have fast follow up shots it was more negative than positive. The solution was to raise the first reg (from bottle) considerably above your second (plenum) reg to speed recovery time back up to the MKII times. All in all it made it kinda redundant for me, and possibly hunters in general. All just an opinion of course.

 

[Vetmx]

i get 225 shots per fill with my m4 with a 300 bar fill .25 600mm at 860 fps. i get a touch less with an M3 with the same kind of bottle right at 200 shots. that's a lot more than 12 ftlb's. a 12 ftlb .177 300bar 580cc 600..impact gets about 2000 - 3000 shots per fill, maybe more.
These are facts.

Those are some impressive shot counts. Fortunately I’ve never even shot 225 shots in a single sitting. Even when I am doing a slug tune. The 2000-3000 shot guy could say I only filled the gun once when he has it up for sale.

 

[Vetmx]

I liked the concept of the 2 regs on my M3 when I first got it but it left me wanting after I played with it a while. One of the ideals was to have the air from the bottle (in transit to the plenum) be just slightly above the second reg setting (air in the plenum) for better consistency and lower deviations between shots. I'm more a hunter than a target guy so it bummed me out to learn that the trade off for that consistency was the increased time to fill the plenum between shots. In small game hunting, like running squirrels in treetops, I need that recovery time to my plenum to be pretty quick. For targets you got all the time you need unless your shoot Speed Competition matches. So, if you had time to wait for the plenum it might shaved 3-4 fps off your deviation and extreme spread. But, if you have to have fast follow up shots it was more negative than positive. The solution was to raise the first reg (from bottle) considerably above your second (plenum) reg to speed recovery time back up to the MKII times. All in all it made it kinda redundant for me, and possibly hunters in general. All just an opinion of course.

All three of my M3’s are hunters. Full recovery time for the second regs are 3-5 seconds. If your POI is majorly affected in hunting situations by being + or - 10fps, your gun has other issues. Or you’re shooting extremely far. Like I said earlier, guys overthink the two regs and get spun by them. If you’re maximum accuracy is only there when your second reg is on it’s exact set point, there are gun/tune issues. I’ve been there.

 

[athlon_oved]

Those are some impressive shot counts. Fortunately I’ve never even shot 225 shots in a single sitting. Even when I am doing a slug tune. The 2000-3000 shot guy could say I only filled the gun once when he has it up for sale.

Thats a standard tank fyi

Impact M3 .177 insane shot count with Hades and easy to turn up for slugs

So I purchased some hades in .177 for my Impact with 700mm barrel and 700cc bottle. They did not like the higher (880-900) speeds in my gun so I ended up getting down to 600fps for them to be good at 22 yards and kinda decent at 50 yards. Where I ended up I am using 4 bar per magazine. So...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[Tormentare]

It is for a lot of people. I get 4 - 5 more magazines per fill 580cc 300bar vs 580cc 250bar bottle in a .25 impact m3 and That's 100+ - 125 more shots that is a lot by anyones measure.

Not just a lot by anyone’s measure but a record breaking efficiency of 2.5fpe/cu.in.

Now, remind us how accurate it is at 100y, if you will…

 

[Troy Bakel]

you can treat it how you want. UA sells 300bar AirMarksman bottles on Impacts this includes the 1 reg M4. not sure what your talking about there. I think they would know if FX didn't support it on the Impact platform.
FX has stated several times that the 250 stated on the side of the Impact is talking about the standard bottle that comes with them.

Once you reach or exceed 230 bar the compressability factor goes less than one and the amount of work and thus energy needed to continue compressing the air rises sharply.

Above 230 bar the molecular interactions between the different constituents that make up air begin to become significant so when expanded across a regulator the pressure drop is highly non linear resulting in oscillating down stream pressures.

Operating at or above 230 bar is not efficient.

 

[athlon_oved]

I get 7 mags out of my short range 25 plinker. 845 fps 25.4 grain 300 bar 580cc bottle. Those are the orgional 28 shot .25 mags. Been plinking with it most of the day. I can get 8 but it start going beloe the 110 reg after about 1/2 the mag.

 

[Tormentare]

Great, but we were talking about the M4 that gets 100-125 shots from 300-250 bar at 860fps. I’m wondering how is its accuracy because it must be running way below the knee of the tune to get that efficiency. What kind of grouping do you see?