FX Fx impact m4, why did they got rid of 1st reg?

[athlon_oved]

Having never worked with a compressability factor of other than 1 in a dynamic pneumatic system:

A. 200 bar to 150 bar working range made sense for my 10 meter competition pistols.

B. I treat the 250 bar pressure limit stated on my Impact as a MAX pressure limit, NOT a max Working pressure limit.

C. As such if it's going to be 60 to 100°F at the range, I charge the tank to 200 bar. If less than 60°F I charge to 220 bar. So even with thermal expansion I am below 230 bar and the system is working with a compressability factor of 1 or very close to 1.

you can treat it how you want. UA sells 300bar AirMarksman bottles on Impacts this includes the 1 reg M4. not sure what your talking about there. I think they would know if FX didn't support it on the Impact platform.
FX has stated several times that the 250 stated on the side of the Impact is talking about the standard bottle that comes with them.

 

[coastal drifter]

Seems like a lot of shots 100-125 on 50 bar more air that's 1/2 bar per shot? or less, I guess I didn't realize how big a 580 bottle is

 

[EliteAirCustoms]

I liked the concept of the 2 regs on my M3 when I first got it but it left me wanting after I played with it a while. One of the ideals was to have the air from the bottle (in transit to the plenum) be just slightly above the second reg setting (air in the plenum) for better consistency and lower deviations between shots. I'm more a hunter than a target guy so it bummed me out to learn that the trade off for that consistency was the increased time to fill the plenum between shots. In small game hunting, like running squirrels in treetops, I need that recovery time to my plenum to be pretty quick. For targets you got all the time you need unless your shoot Speed Competition matches. So, if you had time to wait for the plenum it might shaved 3-4 fps off your deviation and extreme spread. But, if you have to have fast follow up shots it was more negative than positive. The solution was to raise the first reg (from bottle) considerably above your second (plenum) reg to speed recovery time back up to the MKII times. All in all it made it kinda redundant for me, and possibly hunters in general. All just an opinion of course.

 

[Vetmx]

i get 225 shots per fill with my m4 with a 300 bar fill .25 600mm at 860 fps. i get a touch less with an M3 with the same kind of bottle right at 200 shots. that's a lot more than 12 ftlb's. a 12 ftlb .177 300bar 580cc 600..impact gets about 2000 - 3000 shots per fill, maybe more.
These are facts.

Those are some impressive shot counts. Fortunately I’ve never even shot 225 shots in a single sitting. Even when I am doing a slug tune. The 2000-3000 shot guy could say I only filled the gun once when he has it up for sale.

 

[Vetmx]

I liked the concept of the 2 regs on my M3 when I first got it but it left me wanting after I played with it a while. One of the ideals was to have the air from the bottle (in transit to the plenum) be just slightly above the second reg setting (air in the plenum) for better consistency and lower deviations between shots. I'm more a hunter than a target guy so it bummed me out to learn that the trade off for that consistency was the increased time to fill the plenum between shots. In small game hunting, like running squirrels in treetops, I need that recovery time to my plenum to be pretty quick. For targets you got all the time you need unless your shoot Speed Competition matches. So, if you had time to wait for the plenum it might shaved 3-4 fps off your deviation and extreme spread. But, if you have to have fast follow up shots it was more negative than positive. The solution was to raise the first reg (from bottle) considerably above your second (plenum) reg to speed recovery time back up to the MKII times. All in all it made it kinda redundant for me, and possibly hunters in general. All just an opinion of course.

All three of my M3’s are hunters. Full recovery time for the second regs are 3-5 seconds. If your POI is majorly affected in hunting situations by being + or - 10fps, your gun has other issues. Or you’re shooting extremely far. Like I said earlier, guys overthink the two regs and get spun by them. If you’re maximum accuracy is only there when your second reg is on it’s exact set point, there are gun/tune issues. I’ve been there.

 

[athlon_oved]

Those are some impressive shot counts. Fortunately I’ve never even shot 225 shots in a single sitting. Even when I am doing a slug tune. The 2000-3000 shot guy could say I only filled the gun once when he has it up for sale.

Thats a standard tank fyi

Impact M3 .177 insane shot count with Hades and easy to turn up for slugs

So I purchased some hades in .177 for my Impact with 700mm barrel and 700cc bottle. They did not like the higher (880-900) speeds in my gun so I ended up getting down to 600fps for them to be good at 22 yards and kinda decent at 50 yards. Where I ended up I am using 4 bar per magazine. So...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[Tormentare]

It is for a lot of people. I get 4 - 5 more magazines per fill 580cc 300bar vs 580cc 250bar bottle in a .25 impact m3 and That's 100+ - 125 more shots that is a lot by anyones measure.

Not just a lot by anyone’s measure but a record breaking efficiency of 2.5fpe/cu.in.

Now, remind us how accurate it is at 100y, if you will…

 

[Troy Bakel]

you can treat it how you want. UA sells 300bar AirMarksman bottles on Impacts this includes the 1 reg M4. not sure what your talking about there. I think they would know if FX didn't support it on the Impact platform.
FX has stated several times that the 250 stated on the side of the Impact is talking about the standard bottle that comes with them.

Once you reach or exceed 230 bar the compressability factor goes less than one and the amount of work and thus energy needed to continue compressing the air rises sharply.

Above 230 bar the molecular interactions between the different constituents that make up air begin to become significant so when expanded across a regulator the pressure drop is highly non linear resulting in oscillating down stream pressures.

Operating at or above 230 bar is not efficient.

 

[athlon_oved]

I get 7 mags out of my short range 25 plinker. 845 fps 25.4 grain 300 bar 580cc bottle. Those are the orgional 28 shot .25 mags. Been plinking with it most of the day. I can get 8 but it start going beloe the 110 reg after about 1/2 the mag.

 

[Tormentare]

Great, but we were talking about the M4 that gets 100-125 shots from 300-250 bar at 860fps. I’m wondering how is its accuracy because it must be running way below the knee of the tune to get that efficiency. What kind of grouping do you see?

 

[Troy Bakel]

I believe fx claims the m4 reg can handle higher pressure so 2 aren’t necessary. Translates to two were never necessary and was a selling gimmick. I used to like the idea of 2 until I had to rebuild one. Trust me you don’t want 2. Lol

The FX M4 manual states in section 5 that the maximum bottle pressure for 1 regulator is 250 bar and for 2 regulators 300 bar.

 

[Trucker3573]

The FX M4 manual states in section 5 that the maximum bottle pressure for 1 regulator is 250 bar and for 2 regulators 300 bar.

I think they are meaning it can handle higher pressures than before and remain stable without the step down in pressure . If you were set up for pellets and running a low reg pressure of like 90 bar the new reg can stay stable and remain at 90 bar more effectively by itself than the m3 reg could. Who knows if it’s true ? We gut sucked into a bunch of gimmicky marketing all the time.

 

[rigbymauser]

Deleting 1 regulator, was just one of many upgrades to the M4.

I am sure a lot of upgrades can now be bought for the M4.

 

[athlon_oved]

Great, but we were talking about the M4 that gets 100-125 shots from 300-250 bar at 860fps. I’m wondering how is its accuracy because it must be running way below the knee of the tune to get that efficiency. What kind of grouping do you see?

(M4) 600 MM std barrel .25 REG SET A 100BAR I find that with the 25 grain FX .25 cal pellets 860fps is the best speed all the way out to 100 yards. We are talking less than .50" consistently. With the AEA pellets the group shrinks quite a bit. The AEA pellets are way more uniform than the AA, JSB and FX pellets. They are dang near perfect compaired to the others. That's looking under a jewlers loop.
When i speed them up or slow them down much more than 860 or less than 845 they start to wobble past the 65 / 75 yard mark. At 860ish they are flying pretty straight out to 100. Im not sure much beyond that.
100 - 125 shots? You are going to get a lot more than that shooting pellets under 900fps. Unless you are purposely screwing up the tune.

 

[Xcaliber]

you can treat it how you want. UA sells 300bar AirMarksman bottles on Impacts this includes the 1 reg M4. not sure what your talking about there. I think they would know if FX didn't support it on the Impact platform.
FX has stated several times that the 250 stated on the side of the Impact is talking about the standard bottle that comes with them.

UA isn't the only one either. I've hit up The Pallet Shop to inquired about it before i placed my order for the 300 bar 580cc CF bottle for my new M4, Bin also confirmed the M4 will run 300 bar with the aftermarket CF bottle perfectly fine, not to mention at Pyramid Air, they too..... CLEARLY noted the M4 models are capable of it as well with the 300 bar bottle.

FX Impact M4 | PCP Small Game Hunting Rifle | Pyramyd AIR

At under 7 lbs, the Impact M is purpose built to give the user endless adjustment. Change calibers, regulator settings, barrel lengths and liners and even more!

www.pyramydair.com

Even the much cheaper PCP like the Avenge X and many other brands are rated/worked at 300 bar.

 

[athlon_oved]

UA isn't the only one either. I've hit up The Pallet Shop to inquired about it before i placed my order for the 300 bar 580cc CF bottle for my new M4, Bin also confirmed the M4 will run 300 bar with the aftermarket CF bottle perfectly fine, not to mention at Pyramid Air, they too..... CLEARLY noted the M4 models are capable of it as well with the 300 bar bottle.

View attachment 502324

FX Impact M4 | PCP Small Game Hunting Rifle | Pyramyd AIR

At under 7 lbs, the Impact M is purpose built to give the user endless adjustment. Change calibers, regulator settings, barrel lengths and liners and even more!

www.pyramydair.com

Even the much cheaper PCP like the Avenge X and many other brands are rated/worked at 300 bar.

I cant remember who but there are pcp's that are already rated for 7000 psi. They have been EU certifed and they are waiting for their DOT /US certification. I can't recall what manufacture but they were introduced at shot show.
It's AEA.

 

[Xcaliber]

Great, but we were talking about the M4 that gets 100-125 shots from 300-250 bar at 860fps. I’m wondering how is its accuracy because it must be running way below the knee of the tune to get that efficiency. What kind of grouping do you see?

FWIW, my new .22 M4 has the reg set at 100 bar and Macro wheel at 8 and the micro at around 2. Right out of the box with 480cc bottle filled to 250 bar, I was getting over 290 shots with JSB 18gr @930fps from 250 down to 100 bar before it dropped off of the reg.

 

[Xcaliber]

I cant remember who but there are pcp's that are already rated for 7000 psi. They have been EU certifed and they are waiting for their DOT /US certification. I can't recall what manufacture but they were introduced at shot show.
It's AEA.

The only problem tho, there aren't many compressors that could pump out over 4500psi. I think most Huben user can't even take advantage of the rated 5000psi, from what I've seen most of them are running theirs at 4500psi.


I could, see the reason why someone wouldn't want to fill their bottles to 300 bar though, it's hard on the compressors especially those cheap one at $200~300 price point that are air cooled ....not sure how it affect longevity, but running the compressor more often to refill ain't exactly easier on those cheap compressors either, probably end up with the same amount of wear and tear at the end.

 

[athlon_oved]

The only problem tho, there aren't many compressors that could pump out over 4500psi. I think most Huben user can't even take advantage of the rated 5000psi, from what I've seen most of them are running theirs at 4500psi.


I could, see the reason why someone wouldn't want to fill their bottles to 300 bar though, it's hard on the compressors especially those cheap one at $200~300 price point that are air cooled ....not sure how it affect longevity, but running the compressor more often to refill ain't exactly easier on those cheap compressors either, probably end up with the same amount of wear and tear at the end.

Yea the only one that know of the AEA 7k compressor that they introduced with that gun.

 

[Tormentare]

(M4) 600 MM std barrel .25 REG SET A 100BAR I find that with the 25 grain FX .25 cal pellets 860fps is the best speed all the way out to 100 yards. We are talking less than .50" consistently. With the AEA pellets the group shrinks quite a bit. The AEA pellets are way more uniform than the AA, JSB and FX pellets. They are dang near perfect compaired to the others. That's looking under a jewlers loop.
When i speed them up or slow them down much more than 860 or less than 845 they start to wobble past the 65 / 75 yard mark. At 860ish they are flying pretty straight out to 100. Im not sure much beyond that.
100 - 125 shots? You are going to get a lot more than that shooting pellets under 900fps. Unless you are purposely screwing up the tune.

Wow - the very best competition airgun shooters can manage 1-inch at 100y consistently and you’re shooting less than 0.5” with lightweight pellets. That M4 is a real water walker!