FX liner to solid barrel

[AirSupply]

I project I just finished for my Impact.

The idea is to make a barrel starting with a liner as close to solid as possible. Here are the pieces before the whole thing is epoxied together.
The liner was slightly reduced in outside diameter on the lathe to 8mm. This was to make it a true parallel sided cylinder.
It’s in the picture on the right ,inside a 8mm inside diameter 10mm outside diameter cf tube. The whole 700mm liner end to end is epoxied in the tube.
The stainless pieces are all 10mm inside diameter so the liner can slide through.
They are all 14mm outside diameter and have a 12mm step. The second cf tub butts up to the 12mm step. It’s 10mm inside 12mm outside
The final cf tube is 12mm inside 14mm outside and goes over the step.
Finish barrel

The centre stainless section is of course for the cocking block to move against.

I’ll definitely do this to a few of my other liners. Cheers Michael

 

[HogKiller]

And NOW the $64,000 question is....does it work? and how well does it work?

 

[AirSupply]

And NOW the $64,000 question is....does it work? and how well does it work?

I guess there are 2 aspects to does it work. The first is are there advantages of a solid barrel over the liner system?
I’d say yes there are advantages. Firstly you no longer have the variables.
Tension on the liner. Movement, wear and positioning of orings. Slight differences you get in setup when you change liners , Indexing
Possible movement if it gets bumped.

Second possible improvement could be in harmonics. Not just are the harmonics of the barrel better but are they more consistent. The variables above will also change the harmonics of the barrel.
I’ve always thought that the unique method used to manufacture the liners had some real advantages over traditional methods but then you have just a liner and that’s a disadvantage to a traditional solid barrel.
For the manufacture there are of course advantages. There cheap!
I can now tension the barrel that isn’t compressed with the liner system also.
If I start with a dodgy liner then I have wasted my time but I did shoot it before changing it and it was very good.
Reducing the diameter of the liner on the lathe is tricky. It would be very easy to ruin it.
Shooting it so far I’m very happy. It’s a very accurate barrel with the .22 monsters.
Keen to try some slugs and I’ll report back when I do.

 

[Lewis]

Yes Please!
If you decide to make a few of these please PM me a price.

 

[HogKiller]

I guess there are 2 aspects to does it work. The first is are there advantages of a solid barrel over the liner system?
I’d say yes there are advantages. Firstly you no longer have the variables.
Tension on the liner. Movement, wear and positioning of orings. Slight differences you get in setup when you change liners , Indexing
Possible movement if it gets bumped.

Second possible improvement could be in harmonics. Not just are the harmonics of the barrel better but are they more consistent. The variables above will also change the harmonics of the barrel.
I’ve always thought that the unique method used to manufacture the liners had some real advantages over traditional methods but then you have just a liner and that’s a disadvantage to a traditional solid barrel.
For the manufacture there are of course advantages. There cheap!
I can now tension the barrel that isn’t compressed with the liner system also.
If I start with a dodgy liner then I have wasted my time but I did shoot it before changing it and it was very good.
Reducing the diameter of the liner on the lathe is tricky. It would be very easy to ruin it.
Shooting it so far I’m very happy. It’s a very accurate barrel with the .22 monsters.
Keen to try some slugs and I’ll report back when I do.

Be easier to run the liner though a centerless grinder. I'm guessing you don't have one. The FX liners are really flaky from a precision standpoint, cheap to make though.

 

[stoutblock]

The only thing I don’t appreciate about my Impact is the complex and sensitive liner barrel system. I would convert to a solid barrel system in a heartbeat.

 

[Geezerhood]

Quite the project. Impressive work.

I remember seeing a thread where someone made an FX Barrel out of one solid steel TJ's barrel blank or maybe it had the barrel and the port threaded on the breech end. At most it was only two parts.

 

[AirSupply]

Be easier to run the liner though a centerless grinder. I'm guessing you don't have one. The FX liners are really flaky from a precision standpoint, cheap to make though.

That sounds like it could be a lot easier! The lathe worked well but my greatest fear was compressing the liner in the chuck.
It’s only a small amount of material that needs to be removed to square the liner up.

 

[AirSupply]

I remember seeing a thread where someone made an FX Barrel out of one solid steel TJ's barrel blank or maybe it had the barrel and the port threaded on the breech end. At most it was only two parts.

I have a 500mm liner I’m going try and put in a HW80. 500mm isn’t that far to deep drill. 2x250….. I hope
I think the cf is an easy way to do it, at least for this hobby machinist . 16mm steel might be stiffer 14mm cf I guess.

 

[AirSupply]

The only thing I don’t appreciate about my Impact is the complex and sensitive liner barrel system. I would convert to a solid barrel system in a heartbeat.

The stainless steel pieces are very straight forward to make and the cf is easy to find on line.
I’m a slow amateur machinist and just potter along but Im sure if you took this to a competent machinist they would have no trouble doing this for you.
I’ll do more photos and dimensions next one I make.

 

[HogKiller]

That sounds like it could be a lot easier! The lathe worked well but my greatest fear was compressing the liner in the chuck.
It’s only a small amount of material that needs to be removed to square the liner up.

The way around the compression is to put a VERY close fitting piece of brass in it. Leave it sticking out a bit of course so you can grab it to remove it...OR, if you are feeling lucky more of an interference fit to center the bore, one to drive it and one centered on the other end to make the OD concentric to the ID. As you've seen the FX barrel's aren't anywhere near round and I've got a feeling not straight either.

 

[AirSupply]

The way around the compression is to put a VERY close fitting piece of brass in it. Leave it sticking out a bit of course so you can grab it to remove it...OR, if you are feeling lucky more of an interference fit to center the bore, one to drive it and one centered on the other end to make the OD concentric to the ID. As you've seen the FX barrel's aren't anywhere near round and I've got a feeling not straight either.

That’s a great idea. I did use the 4 jaw and dialed it in to the ID. Machined around 2 inch’s then flipped it around then dialed in the machined sections in the 4 jaw again. That’s the bit I got nervous about.
Could I ask another tip.
I used the travelling steady but it applies pressure to the area ahead of my cut. That of course isn’t concentric so the pressure varied. It was slow because I would stop every inch an check OD.
I thought I could put the tool upside down run in reverse and have the steady on the already machined section? Is there a better way?
Thanks again for the tips

 

[bigHUN]

Liners vs full body steel barrels .... pros and cons ...
As a large volume shooter - I don't need to remove the entire barrel for cleaning, I just slide out the liner.
As a competition/target shooter - you need to clean the barrel/liner after every 30-50 shots ... do not think you can do shortcuts.

 

[HogKiller]

Liners vs full body steel barrels .... pros and cons ...
As a large volume shooter - I don't need to remove the entire barrel for cleaning, I just slide out the liner.
As a competition/target shooter - you need to clean the barrel/liner after every 30-50 shots ... do not think you can do shortcuts.

Do you have to reset your zero? Now speaking from a FL Maverick standpoint because those are my airguns, a solid barrel minor diameter then a taper to transition to the larger OD, a mating taper in the body of the gun, absolutely dead nuts repeatability.

 

[steve-l]

I am both an avid shooter and an owner of a pretty comprehensive machine shop. First, barrels do NOT have to straight to be accurate and consistent nor do they have to be perfectly round. The observed accuracy and consistency of FX guns is a reinforcing statement to than truth. Second, a choked barrel is an advantage to accuracy shooting pellets. Third, it takes very special hammer forging machines to create thick choked barrels. Very few companies have these machine and none of them that do make air gun barrels. So, solid barrels are almost certainly without chokes. There are changes that should be done on FX barrel design, but going solid is not one of them.

 

[MadCowCrazy2]

One product I'd like to see on the market would be a thick metal barrel sleeve. 500mm long and then 100mm threaded extenders you could screw on to make it longer. A system like this would allow you to swap out different length of barrel liners so you wouldn't need 3 or more sleeves if you swap lengths for different purposes.

 

[bigHUN]

One product I'd like to see on the market would be a thick metal barrel sleeve. 500mm long and then 100mm threaded extenders you could screw on to make it longer. A system like this would allow you to swap out different length of barrel liners so you wouldn't need 3 or more sleeves if you swap lengths for different purposes.

You mean something like this?

https://europeairguns.com/en/component/youcart/extenderbarrel10cm

 

[MadCowCrazy2]

You mean something like this?

https://europeairguns.com/en/component/youcart/extenderbarrel10cm

Yes, something like that but designed for the liner. That one is only to accommodate the shroud.

Be AWARE: The Barrel Extender is not made to make the barrel longer so that it will accommodate a longer barrel liner. Again, it’s sole purpose is to extend the barrel in order for the shroud to be extended.


So a 500mm barrel sleeve/mount or whatever they are called with threaded screw on 100mm increments so you can extend it to fit longer liners if you wanted.

 

[bigHUN]

... Be AWARE: The Barrel Extender is not made to make the barrel longer so that it will accommodate a longer barrel liner. Again, it’s sole purpose is to extend the barrel in order for the shroud to be extended...

The part in the link I mentioned earlier doing exactly that ... I have a barrel tube for a 600mm liner and extending the tube to accept a 700 liner (I have several liners in 600 and 700 in different twist rates). And I have a barrel tuner but for 700 only, so that won't fit on 600 configuration.

 

[jps2486]

If only the bores on FX liners would have a consistent diameter from the breech to the choke and consistent land/groove profile. Some of these are atrocious. They have a good idea, but quality needs better control.