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FX Warranty?

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azccj

Member
May 9, 2015
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Somewhere USA, United States
Let me begin by saying I like FX and Daystate guns. I currently own a Boss .30, a Monsoon .22, and a Bobcat MkII. I also at one time owned a Gladiator MkII. I also own a few Daystates including a Pulsar Oro, a Mk4 and a Huntsman. All my guns I bought new from either AOA or Precision Airguns and Supplies. Every one of these have worked fine and none lost any air until a couple of months ago I was shooting my Bobcat when it suddenly began dumping air out the barrel. The Bobcat I bought new on 6-11-2015 from Precision Airguns and supplies and I know that FX guns come with a 1 year warranty, so I thought it shouldn't cost me anything but some travel time because AOA is right across town.

I first attempt to call AOA but as usual I was stuck on hold waiting 25 minutes to talk to a real person and then eventually the machine sent to someone's voice mail. I left a message for someone to call me regarding a warranty issue and 2 days latter AOA called me back. Fortunately I have a life and a job and can't just wait by the phone for someone to call me back, so AOA left me a message to call them back, which I never did.

On 4-18-2016 I had some free time so I drove the gun over to AOA, its about a 90 mile round trip. There I explained to one of the employees what the problem was, that the gun was dumping air out the barrel and that the gun was still under warranty. I brought with me my receipt from Precision Airguns and the employee made a copy of the receipt. I was told it should take a week to fix it and to leak test it.

Two weeks go by and I hear nothing from AOA, so today 5-2-2016, I give them a call and get the usual machine so right away I just leave a message and ask if someone can call me back and tell me if my gun is ready. Unbelievably my phone rings 2 minutes later. I'm told the gun is ready and I owe them $233.00. Needless to say I'm not at all amused and tell the guy, (who by the way is the same guy who I gave my gun to when I brought it to them 2 weeks earlier), that I brought the gun in for warranty work and the gun is still under warranty. He says they had to repair my gun because it was dry fired which damaged the valve. I assure him the gun has never been dry fired and has never been below 110 bar pressure in all the time I've owned it until it slowly leaked down. Finally he says he will adjust the bill and I would just have to pay for the labor, $177.00. After some more arguing I tell him I'll be at AOA in the next hour.

When I get to AOA, I once again speak to the same guy who now says he will reduce the bill another $50.00 because included in the bill was the cost of them them replacing the gun's regulator gauge and because it was under warranty it should have cost me $0.00. I pay them $127.50, take my gun and leave with a very bad taste in my mouth.

I don't know how AOA regularly does their business but when someone brings them in a gun for a warranty repair I would think they might want to call the customer and tell them this is going to cost them money to fix it. At which point the customer can decide if he wants it fixed and wants to pay to have it done. Instead of just doing whatever work AOA deems required and then handing the customer a bill. By the way the new regulator gauge that they were going to originally charge me $50.00 for, it reads at the same exact regulator pressure as the original, the only difference is the new one has a nice scratch in the clear plastic that the original one didn't have when I brought the gun to AOA. 30 minutes of polishing the clear plastic and I'm able to get rid of most of the scratch.

Once again I will say this gun as well as all my other guns have never been dry fired. I was planning on getting a new FX Impact this summer but after this little AOA experience I will never as long as I live ever let AOA get another dollar of mine. So any gun that AOA is the exclusive importer, FX, Daystate I will no longer buy until another importer starts selling them here in the US. 
 
Sorry to hear that, that sucks...
But to be honest, this is more an retailer related thing than a FX warranty issue if I understood your story right.
Never heard anything like that before here in Europe, I'm sure when this would have happened in Sweden, it wouldn't have cost you a dime.
It would indeed be appropriate when they would have called you first before beginning to spend hours and money on your gun. I wouldn't be happy to say the least.

A bobcat can be rebuilt within an hour, so that's quite some labor cost.......
Also have a nasty feeling about reducing the bill a couple of times........... What's next, talk with him any longer and it would have been free of charge?
That's not the way how to deal with customers IMO. 
 
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As everyone knows, a story told with or without a few details makes for a new story. So let's start with all the details from AOA's perspective.


The rifle in question was not recorded as a warranty repair. Possibly by our (AOA's) own fault, but mostly because no receipt copy was with the rifle and no customer retail record was in our system. That wasn't presented until after the repair was finished. So the initial bill was for non-warranty work as authorized by the customer upon receipt for service.


The repair was not as simple as assumed here. Yes, parts were replaced but the rifle showed obvious signs of abuse. When torn down the valve body had been peened by the striker, so much that the valve pin would get stuck open, which caused the leak out the barrel, and for which it was being serviced. To repair this requires full disassembly, machining to the valve to restore it to operable specification, and full cleaning of the debris. Then, reassembly and testing to ensure all was put right.


The bill was adjusted when the invoice was presented to remove the cost of all the parts and the labor for replacing them. No further adjustments to the bill were made following an argument as suggested above. The bill was ready upon the customers arrival.


What remained was the custom machining labor that is not included in a warranty reseal. The warranty does not cover abuse. Peening of the valve body is caused by firing the rifle without air or by over-springing the system. Both of which are abuse and not failure under warranty. And both are warned against in the manual.


We did not argue or attempt to swindle anyone. When the sales receipt was produced to prove warranty, we immediately adjusted the bill despite the internal abuse found. What we did do, and what we are being criticized for, is holding to the warranty terms. If we go by the stories told to us, every airgun breaks without any owner error. We see hundreds of repairs and very rarely does anyone openly admit fault. So policy dictates fairness in order to protect our company from being forced to supply free service for everything. When all things are considered, this repair was not a profit for AOA. We receive no warranty labor compensation, so our time paid out, equipment, training and support staff come as a service to everyone at no profit to us. The repair here required even more equipment and the careful skill of a master machinist to make right. And that is what we collected for this repair, nothing more.


We do not wish to upset anyone, whether a customer or not. We gladly service the brands we represent and our factories support our policies. We have a team of qualified and factory trained technicians frequently performing free-warranty repairs and FX gladly supplies parts for warranty. We appreciate the feedback and take concerns to heart. Positive and/or negative comments are recognized and inspire us to improve as a company. 

AOA
 
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"airgunsofAZ"As everyone knows, a story told with or without a few details makes for a new story. So let's start with all the details from AOA's perspective.


The rifle in question was not recorded as a warranty repair. Possibly by our (AOA's) own fault, but mostly because no receipt copy was with the rifle and no customer retail record was in our system. That wasn't presented until after the repair was finished. So the initial bill was for non-warranty work as authorized by the customer upon receipt for service.


The repair was not as simple as assumed here. Yes, parts were replaced but the rifle showed obvious signs of abuse. When torn down the valve body had been peened by the striker, so much that the valve pin would get stuck open, which caused the leak out the barrel, and for which it was being serviced. To repair this requires full disassembly, machining to the valve to restore it to operable specification, and full cleaning of the debris. Then, reassembly and testing to ensure all was put right.


The bill was adjusted when the invoice was presented to remove the cost of all the parts and the labor for replacing them. No further adjustments to the bill were made following an argument as suggested above. The bill was ready upon the customers arrival.


What remained was the custom machining labor that is not included in a warranty reseal. The warranty does not cover abuse. Peening of the valve body is caused by firing the rifle without air or by over-springing the system. Both of which are abuse and not failure under warranty. And both are warned against in the manual.


We did not argue or attempt to swindle anyone. When the sales receipt was produced to prove warranty, we immediately adjusted the bill despite the internal abuse found. What we did do, and what we are being criticized for, is holding to the warranty terms. If we go by the stories told to us, every airgun breaks without any owner error. We see hundreds of repairs and very rarely does anyone openly admit fault. So policy dictates fairness in order to protect our company from being forced to supply free service for everything. When all things are considered, this repair was not a profit for AOA. We receive no warranty labor compensation, so our time paid out, equipment, training and support staff come as a service to everyone at no profit to us. The repair here required even more equipment and the careful skill of a master machinist to make right. And that is what we collected for this repair, nothing more.


We do not wish to upset anyone, whether a customer or not. We gladly service the brands we represent and our factories support our policies. We have a team of qualified and factory trained technicians frequently performing free-warranty repairs and FX gladly supplies parts for warranty. We appreciate the feedback and take concerns to heart. Positive and/or negative comments are recognized and inspire us to improve as a company. 

AOA
















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100% pure BS, AOA Get Your Facts Straight.

First off let me say I dealt with one and only one employee at AOA throughout this entire ordeal. Same employee that received my gun from me, as the one I spoke to on the phone as the one who adjusted the bill twice, as the one who took my credit card for payment. I didn't get the employee's name but I believe his initials are KL as that is what is noted on the invoice when the gun was brought in for service on 4-18-2016.

When I brought the rifle in, I also brought my original receipt in as well. The employee took my receipt, made a copy then gave me back my original. I also told the employee the rifle was still under warranty.

The bill was adjusted twice from $233.00. First when I talked with the employee on the phone he said he would adjust the bill down to $177.00. The second adjustment wasn't asked for by me, but upon my arrival at AOA when the invoice was presented to me, the employee said he had also taken off an additional $50.00 for the regulator gauge that had been installed, because the original one wasn't reading the pressure correctly. I'm going to guess there was no way AOA could say I somehow damaged the gauge by abuse so they had to cover it under warranty. But like I said in my original post, the new gauge reads the same pressure as the original, so I don't know why they thought it was defective....maybe it wasn't.

If my rifle was damaged as AOA says, (and if there is some proof of this I'd like to see it besides just AOA's word), then I can tell you all absolutely that a FX rifle can be damaged by normal use in less than 500 rounds. My gun was never once fired with less than 110 bar pressure in the air tube. Also it was never over-sprung whatever that means. The gun was never abused or taken apart but for the stock being removed to install the front rail. The rifle when given to AOA was set up exactly how it left the factory, I never adjusted anything.

Imagine if you took your 10 month old Honda car, still under warranty to the dealer because the engine was running poorly. And when you pick it up the dealer hands you a bill for $250.00 saying you did something that wasn't covered by the warranty, based simply on what the mechanic says, nothing else. You know you didn't do anything but drive the car, fill it with gas and do the normal maintenance. Do you think you wouldn't feel ripped off? Do you think based on the above facts you couldn't win a case in small claims court? And no I'm not headed to court over $127.50. My time is worth more to me than that. But what I'm saying is, the above example is no different than what happened at AOA yesterday. The only real difference is this, if you have a bad experience at one Honda dealer who ripped you off you can at least get your car fixed under warranty at one of the other 1000+ Honda dealers in the US. But there's just one place in all the US where you can get warranty work done on FX and Daystate rifles, you guessed it......AOA. And whatever AOA says, apparently goes.

So while I got you here AOA, I'll give you some advise worth way more than $127.50 since you say you appreciate feedback.

1st, Hire an actual person to answer your phones so customers aren't stuck on hold every time they call. God knows you're making enough on each one of these $1500.00+ rifles that you get to exclusively sell in the US, plus how much you make from servicing them, regardless if they are in warranty or not. You surely can afford another employee. The reason I've bought almost all my rifles from Precision Airguns instead of AOA, which is right across town, is because every time I call Precision Airguns I talk with a real person either Jim or his wife.

2nd, call your customers when a repair is going to cost them something on a warranty claim instead of just fixing whatever you want and then saying, pay up sucker.

3rd, hire someone who understands the meaning of the word "WARRANTY", as apparently the guy who I gave my rifle to at your business doesn't know what the word means. But why would he make a copy of the receipt if it wasn't a warranty repair?

As to your claim, of all things considered you made no profit on this repair, you should consider how much profit you made with the 3 Daystates and 4 FX guns that passed through your shop to my hands, or how much profit you would have made on the FX Impact I planed on buying in a couple of months from Precision Airguns. AOA you guys got me for $127.50 this time but you'll never get another $ from me again.
 
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Unfortunately, the same story repeats with AOA's s slow customer response, and complacent (almost cavalier attitude) with service assuming that the customer has no other option but to pay up....which is correct. One thing I find remarkable is that AOA actually responded here within the same day, which makes this probably one of the fastest responses ever (phone calls included).

The problem is that AOA's customer-service and competitive reputation industry-wide is such that even if they do the right thing, many still view that with scepticism. 
 
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"18.13"I've called them twice this week and both times someone answered on the second ring so maybe their getting better.
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I hear the lottery rolled over and is estimated at being worth 348 million on Wednesday, I'd buy a ticket if I were you as extremely good luck seems to be with you. I've never once called AOA and got an actual real person without first being put on hold by the machine.
 
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Nice seeing both sides on a forum!
Too bad both parties aren't tinkled pink but at least folks can post their experience/views.

AoA has been portrayed as GREATLY caring about Gray Market airguns, but, they don't keep track of serial numbers? Might want to fix that.
I have know other dealers & importers concerned about Gray Market rigs & warranties , they kept serial numbers and if a gray market rifle came in the customer got a call saying, this is gray market and NOT warrantied by us, you will need to pay return shipping and find someone to fix it.


Peened so bad as to need machining . Wouldn't a valve body cost less than machine time & labor? Peened so bad it held the valve open. "I" cant imagine fixing such an issue, if the valve stem hole was opened at all is it still in spec? Maybe get a touch more power by taking metal off the valve rear face as stroke length increases?

And this idea may be right, may be wrong, but, keeping all serial numbers ( and who purchased them) would give aoa some idea as to wether this is a 1 time customer or has spent $10,000+ as sometimes ( right or wrong) it can be good business to attempt to cut a break to top dollar repeat customers. "hey look it was user damage but as you are such a valued customer we wil ............................ ". You can call crosman ( ya ya totally different as they manufacture ) and say my rifle .... ....... ..... ........... , and they look up the serial number and IF still under warranty even if purchase used they instantly say wether it is under warranty or not and if it is they fix it no questions asked, very nice. Serial numbers are ( should be ) everything to a dealer/manufacture as far as the product.

I can go to any auto parts store in town and give themmy phone number and they can pull up my entire ( LENGHTY) history. Perhaps that would help?

Great forum, yup. We all still have to make up our own minds but at least we heard the story.


John





 
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"Your warranty came with a deductible "


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Yes apparently it did but the deductible isn't mentioned in FX's warranty book.

But I just now read the warranty in the FX book which comes with the gun. I must admit having not done so before now, and while it does mention to not fire the gun when empty of air it makes no mention that it could damage the rifle if done so. Also and I'll quote the book itself, "If the rifle develops a defect within the warranty period, contact the dealer from whom it was purchased. The guarantee does not cover any damage caused by tampering with the rifle." This also appears to indicate my rifle should have been repaired under warranty as my supposed rifle damage was never caused "by tampering with the rifle." I'm accused by the powers that be of dry firing the gun which I continue to say was never done, ever, not once.

Oh, AOA's position on this matter is getting shakier by the post. I have to wonder how many others have sent their rifles in for warranty work that AOA said was caused by some abuse that never happened. In AOA's own response they seem to indicate 100s. And while $127.50 isn't worth my time, perhaps a class action suit with hundreds of of customers who were wrongfully charged for what should have been no charge warranty work, might make some lawyer salivate.
 
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"spysir"Nice seeing both sides on a forum!
Too bad both parties aren't tinkled pink but at least folks can post their experience/views.

AoA has been portrayed as GREATLY caring about Gray Market airguns, but, they don't keep track of serial numbers? Might want to fix that.
I have know other dealers & importers concerned about Gray Market rigs & warranties , they kept serial numbers and if a gray market rifle came in the customer got a call saying, this is gray market and NOT warrantied by us, you will need to pay return shipping and find someone to fix it.


Peened so bad as to need machining . Wouldn't a valve body cost less than machine time & labor? Peened so bad it held the valve open. "I" cant imagine fixing such an issue, if the valve stem hole was opened at all is it still in spec? Maybe get a touch more power by taking metal off the valve rear face as stroke length increases?

And this idea may be right, may be wrong, but, keeping all serial numbers ( and who purchased them) would give aoa some idea as to wether this is a 1 time customer or has spent $10,000+ as sometimes ( right or wrong) it can be good business to attempt to cut a break to top dollar repeat customers. "hey look it was user damage but as you are such a valued customer we wil ............................ ". You can call crosman ( ya ya totally different as they manufacture ) and say my rifle .... ....... ..... ........... , and they look up the serial number and IF still under warranty even if purchase used they instantly say wether it is under warranty or not and if it is they fix it no questions asked, very nice. Serial numbers are ( should be ) everything to a dealer/manufacture as far as the product.

I can go to any auto parts store in town and give themmy phone number and they can pull up my entire ( LENGHTY) history. Perhaps that would help?

Great forum, yup. We all still have to make up our own minds but at least we heard the story.


John








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As I far as I know any FX or Daystate guns sold as new in the US, go through AOA's doors first. But if AOA would like to tell us differently, I would be very interested in knowing a new source in the US where I can buy FX and Daystate guns other than AOA, as I'm sure many others on this forum would be interested in knowing as well.

In my case AOA is not disputing the fact that my gun was under warranty, only why the gun leaked air which according to them was caused by me dry firing it, which I absolutely deny and which they have not supplied any proof, only their word. Also keep in mind in AOA's post they indicate all the work was done when they thought the gun was out of warranty and had been dropped off by a customer to be fixed. You can draw your own conclusions as to why this might make a difference to AOA on what needs to be done.
 
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Being an engineer that was responsible for researching and dispositioning defective parts on behalf of the US GOV and two of the major military aircraft manufactures, a thought comes to mind....
Has anyone considered the option that the "damaged" part that AOA says was caused by dry firing and that the gun owner states "was never dry fired", is in itself defective?
Not knowing the particulars of how this gun was used, or what the "damaged" part looks like at this time. Is there any chance the part was not properly "hardened" during the mfg process, therefore making the part "soft" and wear out much faster from normal use? Therefore giving the appearance to the experienced gunsmith that the only way this could have happened was by excessive abuse, when possibly the part that is suspect may not have had the mechanical design characteristics of most normal parts? Wouldn't be the first time a part does not get the full "treatment" from the mfg or the supplier, and the parts wear much too soon? Just some food for thought.

Maybe have the part tested?

Hope this helps.
 
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"azccj "
...I'll quote the book itself, “If the rifle develops a defect within the warranty period, contact the dealer from whom it was purchased."
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Just curious - didn't you say you bought the gun, not from AoA, but from Precision Airguns? If so, wouldn't the terms of your warranty require them - not AoA - to provide warranty service?
 
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I have inquired to FX Airguns asking what the requirements are to become an importer / distributor of their products and to date have received no reply which is not surprising since they can't currently meet demand of one importer much less more than one. Still though I would like to know the requirements as I have an entirely new business model in mind that I have not seen in the Airgun community.

Thurmond
 
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"Steve_in_NC"
"azccj "
...I'll quote the book itself, “If the rifle develops a defect within the warranty period, contact the dealer from whom it was purchased."
Click to expand...
Just curious - didn't you say you bought the gun, not from AoA, but from Precision Airguns? If so, wouldn't the terms of your warranty require them - not AoA - to provide warranty service?
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Yes, I bought the gun in question from Precision Airguns, not AOA. But I believe AOA handles all warranty claims in the US as they are the exclusive importer for FX guns and have as they put it, the factory trained technicians. But if someone knows of some other outfit that does warranty work in the US, please chime in.
 
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"T3PRanch"I have inquired to FX Airguns asking what the requirements are to become an importer / distributor of their products and to date have received no reply which is not surprising since they can't currently meet demand of one importer much less more than one. Still though I would like to know the requirements as I have an entirely new business model in mind that I have not seen in the Airgun community.

Thurmond
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More than likely AOA has the long term exclusive rights to sell FX guns in the US, so even if FX wanted another importer they probably have a contract with AOA which prevents FX from having another importer here.
 
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