Glass Nirvana ?

After years of avoiding the temptation to buy a "high-end" scope, I finally broke down and bought an Athlon Cronus BTR gen2 UHD 4.5-29x. It was on sale at the time and has the APRS-6 MIL FFP reticle. I have a few Midas TAC and Midas BTR gen2, so I'll be able to compare them side by side. The scope boys will say it's not Tier 1, but it's as good as its going to get for me. The only other "high end" scope I have is a Vortex Golden Eagle 15-60x for my 100Y BR .25 Red Wolf. I intend to use the Cronus on my PRS (NRL-22) gun...
 
  • Like
Reactions: cavedweller
Have not really look seriously into hunter glass but been thinking about it and here are some of my thoughts.

1. Ranging: arguably the most important feature, bigger the objective lens the shallower depth of field so definitely get 56mm objective scopes to help with ranging at 16x
1.1 Parallax: some scopes have very short travel between 10-55 yards which makes ranging very hard
2. Reticle: Christmas tree reticle is my personal choice for hold over because of all the reference points, obviously don't want obstructive but personal preference
3. FFP or SFP: Unless the reticle is true at 16x I would go FFP so the references will be accurate, you can write down on a card for SFP but too PIA

In short, try 56mm objective length scopes with 16x marking, FFP, Christmas tree reticle and parallax wheel with long travel between 10-55 yards. Shockingly my lowly Element helix does remarkably well at ranging! It has VERY long travel between 10-55 yards, the longest I've ever seen on any scope.
I agree that ranging/parallax are top requirements for 16x Hunter division FT in the US.
You mentioned the long travel of the Element Helix. What is the travel length you get for it?
For my Sightron SIII 10-50x60, it takes about 225 degrees of travel to range from 10-55 yards, and about 13 degrees for 40-55 yards, I wish the travel were longer for those further distances.
 
Last edited:
I agree that ranging/parallax are top requirements for 16x Hunter division FT in the US.
You mentioned the long travel of the Element Helix. What is the travel length you get for it?
For my Sightron SIII 10-50x60, it takes about 225 degrees of travel to range from 10-55 yards, and about 13 degrees for 40-55 yards, I wish the travel were longer for those further distances.


Short travel At longer distances is normal and how the lenses work unfortunately. Helix has 3/4 of Revolution(~270 degrees) between 10-55 yards, the most I’ve seen on any scope. If I were to be more serious about HFT, the Titan 5-25 will be my top choice because of ranging, parallax travel and reticle.

On the lower price point I did shockingly well with my helix 6-24 FFP the 1 time I shot in HFT a while ago. Granted between 50-55 is a little tough but at 910fps I did not miss any shots due to ranging.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RScott
My collection of guns and glass are all less expensive. Under $500 guns and scopes around $200. I am still getting set up to shoot HFT but I plan to use my Athlon Talos 6-24 scope. I put a large UTG parallax wheel on it and just finished putting a mm stick on measuring tape on the outside. It will focus down to 8 yards so I started there and determined where the wheel wants to be (in mm) and where my POI is by yard out to 17 yards then I jumped to 20, then 22, then 25, then 30 etc.. The wheel is not huge and the parallax settings started getting fairly close to each other by the time I got to 35, however. I shoot from my left shoulder so it is harder to see the parallax wheel and I'm not sure about the huge oblong wheels.

The reticle has marks every 1/2 mil which are accurate at 18X. But it is not terribly hard to convert that to 16X but it pretty much doesn't matter if you know where your guns shoot. My range care will have mm, distance, and "tics". I think it will be easier to just count the "tics" than "apparent mils" or something. I already make a label to go inside the lens cover for the objective lens with this information for the important distances including "tics" at 6X - my normal setting for hunting. I left off information from 20-40 yards because the scope is zero'd for 35 yards and the hold under at 30 (the maximum) is about 1/4 inch. Negligible for hunting. But for FT, the card will have all the info.

I have a scope with a Christmas tree reticle but it seems cluttered to me. I like a simple mil dot for hunting but I think more marks and fine lines make sense for shooting targets where there is plenty of time. Duplex is not enough information and Christmas tree is too much for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cavedweller
My collection of guns and glass are all less expensive. Under $500 guns and scopes around $200. I am still getting set up to shoot HFT but I plan to use my Athlon Talos 6-24 scope. I put a large UTG parallax wheel on it and just finished putting a mm stick on measuring tape on the outside. It will focus down to 8 yards so I started there and determined where the wheel wants to be (in mm) and where my POI is by yard out to 17 yards then I jumped to 20, then 22, then 25, then 30 etc.. The wheel is not huge and the parallax settings started getting fairly close to each other by the time I got to 35, however. I shoot from my left shoulder so it is harder to see the parallax wheel and I'm not sure about the huge oblong wheels.

The reticle has marks every 1/2 mil which are accurate at 18X. But it is not terribly hard to convert that to 16X but it pretty much doesn't matter if you know where your guns shoot. My range care will have mm, distance, and "tics". I think it will be easier to just count the "tics" than "apparent mils" or something. I already make a label to go inside the lens cover for the objective lens with this information for the important distances including "tics" at 6X - my normal setting for hunting. I left off information from 20-40 yards because the scope is zero'd for 35 yards and the hold under at 30 (the maximum) is about 1/4 inch. Negligible for hunting. But for FT, the card will have all the info.

I have a scope with a Christmas tree reticle but it seems cluttered to me. I like a simple mil dot for hunting but I think more marks and fine lines make sense for shooting targets where there is plenty of time. Duplex is not enough information and Christmas tree is too much for me.
For HFT, rangefinding accuracy is crucial regardless of glass quality and other features. Make sure you accurately calibrate your focus wheel and be confident that it is repeatable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qball
If you are allowed to click for elevation you can get a custom elevation knob. Tape the knob and mark range dope on the knob. Makes it simple. Range the target, say 30 yards, turn the elevation knob to 30 and shoot.if your scope has an elevation stop this is great. Zero is all the way down on the stop and everything else is up.
Sittin on a bucket and using sticks I’m allowed to range but otherwise can’t mess with the scopes elevation or windage turrets once the match starts - scope must be set at 16x magnification or next lower setting
 
Last edited:
Second focal plane = both
4F264DB8-0947-458A-B1A5-28EC7E8CD8B5.jpeg
I was wondering what your March scopes were. I got one answer. S7
EDF17211-E2CF-492A-BE5B-FB05053E738B.jpeg
 
  • Love
Reactions: JungleShooter
I agree that ranging/parallax are top requirements for 16x Hunter division FT in the US.
You mentioned the long travel of the Element Helix. What is the travel length you get for it?
For my Sightron SIII 10-50x60, it takes about 225 degrees of travel to range from 10-55 yards, and about 13 degrees for 40-55 yards, I wish the travel were longer for those further distances.
The element titan 3-18x50 with 34 mm tube has a great spread
IMG_7587.jpeg

IMG_7644.jpeg
IMG_7643.jpeg
IMG_7645.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gear_Junkie
Last edited:
Sorry if this is irrelevant I don’t do field target or anything. But this scope and reticle have really taken off in the pb hunting scene for having a great ffp reticle at all magnifications. Unsure if it would be too thick for your purposes. Also holds zero very well so you don’t have to worry about poi shift at a match

 
  • Like
Reactions: cavedweller
Sorry if this is irrelevant I don’t do field target or anything. But this scope and reticle have really taken off in the pb hunting scene for having a great ffp reticle at all magnifications. Unsure if it would be too thick for your purposes. Also holds zero very well so you don’t have to worry about poi shift at a match

It does focus down to 10 yards
 
To achieve nirvana. one must, according to the quote below:

"Nirvana is believed to be attainable only with the elimination of all greed, hatred, and ignorance within a person. Nirvana signifies the end of the cycle of death and rebirth. According to the Four Noble Truths, “life is suffering” so ending the cycle of rebirth is something to be desired."

So, I think that pursuit of "glass nirvana" in our context here would start with picking a scope that is now and has been a known winning FT scope. Having said that, the Sightron SIII 10-50x60 comes to mind as does the Nikko.

Regardless of the chosen scope, one must embrace, love, nurture, and most of all, practice with that one scope. Learn your scope and all things will be easier.

Podna