GUN...accuracy ?

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MikeVV

MikeVV

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Jan 10, 2019
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SoCal, United States
Everyone (most everyone) talks gun, and or barrel "accuracy". 

BUT as far as I've seen, no ones actually checked / verified this. Maybe I've missed any true accuracy testing, but nuthin showed in the search function, well, one sort-of.

Coming from a long time (early 70's) powder fire gun background, when gun accuracy is mentioned..."true" accuracy is missed, that is, WITHOUT...human intervention, which, as the most steady human on the planet, as mated with the steadiest bench and bag arrangement used...they cannot match a "mechanical" rest.

SO, my question, all of the accuracy testing that I see in YouTube and the various web forums, are all (that I saw),...human / steady bench accuracy...NOT...gun accuracy.

So with all of the testing going on, why isn't some mechanical (like the Ransom Rest) device used to "actually" measure the gun / barrel accuracy ? A mechanical contraption could be fairly easily designed so that with a minor amount of change (or money), various guns could be secured in the "rest", solidly enough to actually "test" various guns / barrels to give the folks in computer land some accurate information on the given guns capability's.

Even ol Rick (Shooter 1721) and his aspirin shooting. It's cool to watch, but it's still NOT the guns accuracy he's showing.



Mike
 
Benchrest competition comes a little closer to what you're referring to. However there will always be nits to pick...variables that will render any two gun reviews done by different people at different times to be something less than an apples to apples comparison. Not in trivial ways, but in ways that are significant. For example, the ammunition is a huge variable...how many different batches can anyone be reasonably expected to test, trying to find the magic one that the gun will group the best? Similarly, very few have access to an indoor range of sufficient length to be useful. Either one of these items can easily have more influence over the outcome than, say, sandbags versus a shooting rest.

That's not to say it's a lost cause or that it's not an ideal to aspire to, but assessing what could be called a gun's true accuracy goes way beyond the type of rest.

Serious gun manufacturers can and do go to great lengths to control for as many variables as they can, but even that can be argued as insufficient to establish a gun's true accuracy potential.
 
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As a moderately experienced enthusiast, I was contemplating that very thing.

In my humble opinion I see 5 major factors on consistent accuracy:

  1. the barrel (correct twist and quality)
  2. the ammo (correct weight, match for barrel, and quality/consistency in manufacturing)
  3. the gun (hardware, tuning, configuration, and trigger quality)
  4. the scope
  5. the shooter (method and consistency in hold)
    [/LIST=1]

    I never expected to get this deep into it, I just like to shoot.
 
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IMO, with a good bench rest setup, you can get close enough to eliminating the human element in testing the rifle and ammo. Obviously, if you can do it indoors with the rifle locked in a shooting fixture, the process is much faster, and shooter fatigue is removed. Granted, there are folks who, either from physical disability or lacking technique will have problems, but generally a good BR setup works well enough.
 
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A decent rest, the kind you describe, can cost as much as one of the more expensive guns being evaluated. Most including me will not go there.

Still it is true that some will yield a better perspective, with their various rests, on the guns abilities than others. You just need to decide who those are.

Me, I will dismiss the efforts of anyone who rants an raves about how great the PCP, they are reviewing, is while shooting 1 inch groups at 25 yards. Their information can never be trusted.

Still many others that can manage half inch groups, at the same yardage, can be trusted a bit more. But it's always some trusted much more than others here.

Then there are those who shoot the gun as received with no regards to its favorite pellet or favorite tune. These usually cannot be trusted either as the gun will shoot much better, than their results actually portray, with it's favorite pellet and a decent tune.

Yet, in the same breath, some will take the time to clean the barrel on the new gun then proceed to test the gun with several/many projectiles at various speeds. When this is combined with their known good marksmanship I will trust their results.

So, in the end, we do have some very talented individuals that, do a pretty darn good job, with the environment as it is but without the fancy and very spendy rest. We also have many who's reviews are just a waste of time to watch.

It's up to each of us to decide which is which.

I also prefer four or five shot groups over ten as the human factor is always factored into a ten shot group. So, one is testing the gun and the shooters abilities instead of just the guns.


 
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I was going to buy a used gun rest for just that...but it was going to be used to test pellets....I was thinking it would be a lot faster to find,"the One".

I have shot hundreds of "guns" and for the most part they are more accurate than me....it is a Lot easier and faster to find a bad "shooter" than to get the most from a good shooter.

The custom barrel makers test fire their barrels from a heavy duty jig...they also air gap them...and end up throwing some of their barrels away...

Many shooters would be shocked to know how good their rifles can shoot.....and if they can not blame poor accuracy on barrels,pellets,scopes,and the wind who they going to blame in on?That's what I thought.


 
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I often wonders if a gun tuned clamped down, will keep the same accuracy when alowed to recoil? Even there is not much recoil in an airgun, it still is present. If the intention is to shoot the gun unclamped, maybe it is better to tune it, when the natural recoil is present?
Click to expand...

Handguns do change poi from a rest to freehand. Sighted in on a sand bag then shot freehand, the poi will be higher. Called muzzle flip. 
 
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As a moderately experienced enthusiast, I was contemplating that very thing.

In my humble opinion I see 5 major factors on consistent accuracy:

  1. the barrel (correct twist and quality)
  2. the ammo (correct weight, match for barrel, and quality/consistency in manufacturing)
  3. the gun (hardware, tuning, configuration, and trigger quality)
  4. the scope
  5. the shooter (method and consistency in hold)
    [/LIST=1]

    I never expected to get this deep into it, I just like to shoot.
Click to expand...


  1. Agree with the above myself.

    The last line is an "accurate" one !

    I just had the general question because so many seem to, on the surface anyway, put SO much idealism into the bench rested "accuracy".

    Mike
 
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MikeVV,

Good topic and very good points! Some excellent comments on this thread already. 

I find it entertaining how while they are reviewing the group of shots just taken, they always try to explain an errant shot(flyer) as "that must have been the wind" or "I musta pulled that one" or "that musta been a bad pellet" or etc.....

Most Youtube videos I see are actually trying to demostrate PRECISON(how tight of a group can you shoot at 1 given distance) and not ACCURACY(can you hit what you're aiming at, which is a function of gun+shooter+scope).

I like to test my hunting/pesting rigs before I go out using a series of target gongs that I have set up from 25 to 150 yards:

1st- check zero, if not on zero, adjust scope to zero. If on target then proceed to #2.

2nd- dial in 50 yards and shoot center of 50 yard gong. If I hit center, move on to #3

3rd- dial scope to 75 yards and shoot center of 75 yard gong, etc...

4th- same for 100 yards

5th- same for 125 yards

6th- same for 150 yards

If I fail to hit the center of the target, I fire couple more shots to re-verify that the rig is not going to consistently have a chance to HIT WHAT I'M AIMING AT, at that distance or longer, on that day. Depending on how windy it is, or whether I'm using a powerful slug rig or sub 12 ft/lb pellet gun, usually determines my max distance to try a shot on a given day. It is as more of a "scope setup" test than anything else(as I have previously put in the bench time to determine what is the best projectile, at what speed, Strelok data, etc...). Wish we would see more of that in gun/scope reviews.
 
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