GX CS4 grease again...(sorry)!

Guys, I know the CS4 grease pot thing gets a lot of queries and lots of different answers on here.
Here in NZ we don't always get the choices that US or UK folks do.
I found this locally, and the NLGI 1 or the NLGI 2 stuff may be what I can use? Scroll down to 4070-4071-4072 options.
https://www.lubricationengineers.co.nz/_files/ugd/354acf_a01fe1dd05754315b3723de771a94cbc.pdf
Any informed recommendations?
I can get this too...
https://www.synergyelectronics.co.nz/store/41160-super-lube-grease
Is that better/the same/similar?
Thanks.
 
M8, the only thing I can tell you from reading hundreds of posts about it is... it doesn't matter much. Here's what I intend to buy (not a link, since you're in NZ, just details):

NLGI 2 or 1 (2 is thicker, 000/00/00/1 is more watery)
Silicone-based
Food safe
Cheap (since these compressors use SO LITTLE grease, I'm sure a tube would last 5 of us a couple of lifetimes each; I fear more waste than use will actually occur)
 
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FWIW I am using: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J4GYH0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1In my humble non-scientific opinion either you listed will be fine. Despite the pressure these little GX compressors can generate I do not think they are finicky.

Cannot say whether or not it will work well (most likely it WILL), but two things made me shy away from this particular grease... It's got PTFE in it, and it's not silicone-based.

Also, for Kiwi, Amazon doesn't deliver to NZ I don't think.

PTFE is bad stuff for living organisms. I haven't owned a dish nor pot nor pan with it in years. The smoke from using it will kill small animals in a jiffy. It won't get THAT hot in our compressors, so as I said, you'll probably be just fine with it.

The MSDS seems pretty benign, aside from "avoid excessive heat". (They don't define "excessive",. yet market it as a high-temp lubricant, lol)
 
Cannot say whether or not it will work well (most likely it WILL), but two things made me shy away from this particular grease... It's got PTFE in it, and it's not silicone-based.

Also, for Kiwi, Amazon doesn't deliver to NZ I don't think.

PTFE is bad stuff for living organisms. I haven't owned a dish nor pot nor pan with it in years. The smoke from using it will kill small animals in a jiffy. It won't get THAT hot in our compressors, so as I said, you'll probably be just fine with it.

The MSDS seems pretty benign, aside from "avoid excessive heat". (They don't define "excessive",. yet market it as a high-temp lubricant, lol)
Thanks for the heads-up. In seeing your post I was going to ask what the issue with said grease was. I am just trying to learn about PCPs and the support equipment. SuperLube grease was put in the pot when the compressor was still pretty new prior to adding an hour meter. The factory grease looked suspect. 13.x now showing for hours. I will run it to ~50 hours or so and reevaluate. And I also do not use Teflon cookware. ;)
 
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Guys, I know the CS4 grease pot thing gets a lot of queries and lots of different answers on here.
Here in NZ we don't always get the choices that US or UK folks do.
I found this locally, and the NLGI 1 or the NLGI 2 stuff may be what I can use? Scroll down to 4070-4071-4072 options.
https://www.lubricationengineers.co.nz/_files/ugd/354acf_a01fe1dd05754315b3723de771a94cbc.pdf
Any informed recommendations?
I can get this too...
https://www.synergyelectronics.co.nz/store/41160-super-lube-grease
Is that better/the same/similar?
Thanks.
Grey-Kiwi, I would go by F6Hawk's recommendations.
 
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The grease question is confusing to me. As NLGI grease spec don't have requirements of high flashpoints to avoid detonation in the compressor. The spec is mainly in insure food safety of the lubricant, that it doesn't contain significant amounts of poisonous or carcinogenic stuff. NLGI greases are often used to lube many metal on metal machinery. In fact many seem to be similar to common lithium based greases sold for automotive use. Silicone greases are poor for metal and metal lubrication, but are often used for rubber o-ring to metal lube. So using any type NLGI grease may be very dangerous if it has a low flashpoint! Many NLGI greases contain hydrocarbons, either from dino oil stock, or synthetic. No requirement that they must be silicone.

If what needs to be lube is doesn't include any metal on metal contact. Then a silicone lube may be all you need. Although some high flashpoint hydrocarbon lubes may work better. If sticking to a silicone lube I would think it would be easier and safer to just put a few drops of silicone oil into the grease port and forego using any grease whatsoever.

Looking at the photos of what comes shipped inside the grease pot, it doesn't look like silicone grease as it is opaque and not clear in color.
 
The grease question is confusing to me. As NLGI grease spec don't have requirements of high flashpoints to avoid detonation in the compressor. The spec is mainly in insure food safety of the lubricant, that it doesn't contain significant amounts of poisonous or carcinogenic stuff. NLGI greases are often used to lube many metal on metal machinery. In fact many seem to be similar to common lithium based greases sold for automotive use. Silicone greases are poor for metal and metal lubrication, but are often used for rubber o-ring to metal lube. So using any type NLGI grease may be very dangerous if it has a low flashpoint! Many NLGI greases contain hydrocarbons, either from dino oil stock, or synthetic. No requirement that they must be silicone.

If what needs to be lube is doesn't include any metal on metal contact. Then a silicone lube may be all you need. Although some high flashpoint hydrocarbon lubes may work better. If sticking to a silicone lube I would think it would be easier and safer to just put a few drops of silicone oil into the grease port and forego using any grease whatsoever.

Looking at the photos of what comes shipped inside the grease pot, it doesn't look like silicone grease as it is opaque and not clear in color.

I cannot speak to other compressors, but on the CS4, the only metal-to-metal contact is between the pin securing the piston to the crankshaft bearing, and that is via needle bearings.

Inside the piston itself, it is all rubber-to-metal, unless the rubber seals happened to fail. And then damage would ensue VERY rapidly.

NLGI rating has nothing to do with the ingredients of a grease; they are simply a measure of viscosity (typically ranging from 000-6). Think if it like the viscosity ratings of automobile oils. 75W90 is thicker than 0W20, with 30W in between, if that makes sense.

Here's a chart to give you an idea of the grades:


Screenshot 2024-03-11 at 9.02.35 PM.png
 
In my humble non-scientific opinion either you listed will be fine. Despite the pressure these little GX compressors can generate I do not think they are finicky.FWIW I am using: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J4GYH0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.
Been doing a little more searching, and as I said before, the idea of PTFE kinda turned me off, but looking at their site a bit more, I think you'll be 100% A-ok using it. The PTFE (they claim to have a lot <<NLGI #2 grease with an extremely high concentration of Syncolon (PTFE)>> is added for metal-to-metal contact, which the CS4 doesn't have.

Not suggesting you should switch, as you already have enough grease to last you, your kids, and grandkids for your compressor, lol.

ETA: I removed part of my post because the super lube silicone grease I was planning to use is NLGI 2, which I now feel is too thick to use in the CS4. (Just pulled some out from my SCUBA kit, and it's really thick, and likely won't spread around the cylinder walls very well, and may actually hinder movement inside the cylinder).

Having said that, @two4spooky , I would avoid the grease you mentioned because it, too, is NLGI 2, not the NLGI 0 recommended by Omega Trail (at least for now). That being said, many here seem to be using NLGI 2 with no issues, so perhaps it's not as big of a deal after all.
 
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Sorry you are right. I was mixing up food grade and NLGI rating. But the only thing I read is that the grease should be food grade and and NLGI 0. The manual only says non-oil based. So I would assume that means dino oil. Don't know if that applied to other synthetic hydro carbons.


From photos the grease inside looks like regular lithium grease which I would think isn't what you want to use unless you want a grenade the cylinder!

If it is truly only rubber to metal contact would it be better to just put a few drops of silicone oil in every few hours? I would think better distribution to all 4 stages excess oil won't damage anything unless you add too much too quickly and get fluid lock as can happen when you add water into the port as a video suggests.



ChatGPT

Food grade lubricants, including greases, are categorized based on their potential contact with food products. The categorization is important for ensuring the safety and compliance of manufacturing processes, particularly in the food and beverage industry. The categories you're asking about, H1 and H2, are defined as follows:

H1 Lubricants​

  • Use: H1 lubricants are designed for use in food-processing environments where there is the possibility of incidental food contact. These lubricants must be composed of ingredients that are recognized as safe by the appropriate regulatory bodies (e.g., the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)).
  • Applications: H1 greases are commonly used in machinery that processes food products, such as conveyors, pumps, mixers, and slicers.

H2 Lubricants​

  • Use: H2 lubricants are used on equipment and machine parts in locations where there is no possibility of contact with food. Even though there's no direct contact, the use of toxic materials is still restricted.
  • Applications: H2 greases are suitable for use in parts of machinery that are outside of the food processing area but still within the same manufacturing environment.
It's crucial for manufacturers to choose the correct type of lubricant based on the application and the likelihood of contact with food to ensure compliance with health and safety standards. Additionally, there is another category known as H3 (edible oils), which is used to clean and prevent rust on hooks, trolleys, and similar equipment.
When selecting a food grade lubricant, it's important to consider not only the USDA category but also the specific requirements of the application, including temperature ranges, load capacities, and resistance to water, steam, and other chemicals. Compliance with local regulations and standards is also crucial.
 
Sorry you are right. I was mixing up food grade and NLGI rating. But the only thing I read is that the grease should be food grade and and NLGI 0. The manual only says non-oil based. So I would assume that means dino oil. Don't know if that applied to other synthetic hydro carbons.


From photos the grease inside looks like regular lithium grease which I would think isn't what you want to use unless you want a grenade the cylinder!

If it is truly only rubber to metal contact would it be better to just put a few drops of silicone oil in every few hours? I would think better distribution to all 4 stages excess oil won't damage anything unless you add too much too quickly and get fluid lock as can happen when you add water into the port as a video suggests.
It is DEFINITELY not NLGI 0, it would drip into the cylinder on its own without twisting the cap. My guess is NLGI 1, based on years working with many automotive greases.

Silicone oil wouldn't be BAD, per se, but you'd have to use a LOT more of it as it wouldn't stick as well as the grease.

From an article on the proper grease to use for o-rings:

WHY SILICONE LUBRICANT GREASE IS THE BEST TYPE FOR RUBBER O-RINGS AND SEALS

Most O-rings are made from synthetic rubbers. Namely: nitrile, EPDM and Neoprene. It is true that petroleum products will degrade natural rubber. But if an o-ring is made from, nitrile, for example (a material used in car fuel and oil lines) then there is no problem using petroleum grease to lubricate the o-ring.

The problem is: How do you know if the o-ring is made from synthetic rubber or ordinary natural rubber? It is impossible to tell just by touching it, looking at it. And most User Manual’s will not tell you the material of the o-rings and seals. It might tell you it’s rubber – but synthetic or natural rubber?

The solution is: Use silicone lubricant for o-rings and seals to be safe. Silicone lubricant is waterproofing and lubricating. It costs $10 for a small tube and is available at all auto parts stores. Be safe, use silicone grease on your o-rings and rubber seals in pressure washer wands, hoses and pumps.

A decent read, even though it's not exactly our application:
 
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So if I used the NLGI 2 from here...(item 4072)...
https://www.lubricationengineers.co.nz/_files/ugd/354acf_a01fe1dd05754315b3723de771a94cbc.pdf
...then that should be OK?
Or stick with the wee tube of SuperLube Multi-purpose grease that I have?
https://www.espressoninja.co.nz/product/super-lube-food-grade-grease/
I'd stick with what you have. Neither are silicone based, which would be my preference, but as I have told others, it will probably be ok. The issue is that we don't know what ALL the rubber components are made from, so don't truly know if a petroleum-based grease will degrade them over time.

If I don't get back to you tomorrow, please PM me and remind me to call LE for you. I will ask them if the grease in the first link is compatible with all rubbers, or see if they have a silicone alternative that will work better. (assuming I can call them for free and you cannot)
 
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Guys, I know the CS4 grease pot thing gets a lot of queries and lots of different answers on here.
Here in NZ we don't always get the choices that US or UK folks do.
I found this locally, and the NLGI 1 or the NLGI 2 stuff may be what I can use? Scroll down to 4070-4071-4072 options.
https://www.lubricationengineers.co.nz/_files/ugd/354acf_a01fe1dd05754315b3723de771a94cbc.pdf
Any informed recommendations?
I can get this too...
https://www.synergyelectronics.co.nz/store/41160-super-lube-grease
Is that better/the same/similar?
Thanks.
I don’t know if you can get this there, but Omega/GX recommends this for the Aircharger. And it’s the same stuff in the GX CS4.

IMG_1673.jpeg
 
I don’t know if you can get this there, but Omega/GX recommends this for the Aircharger. And it’s the same stuff in the GX CS4.

View attachment 444876
Thanks @Grassguy12200 , I know I had seen that before, but couldn't remember it tonight.

The fact that it's vegetable oil-based, I'm sure it will work great in our compressors, but curious about the NLGI rating of 0? Does yours stay in the pot until you turn it every 4-5 hours? Or does it leak down and get sucked into the piston without turning the pot?
 
That's why I'm confused on what is best to use. I believe the design of the Omega and CS4 are similar and are probably made in the same factory in China. So the recommend Renewable grease is most likely also the correct grease to use for the CS4. It also looks like the same grease. Silicone grease are clear not opaque off white. Which is like lithium greases. I would think and NLGI 0 would give more even distribution inside all 4 stages than the much thicker #2. This grease seems to be a oil based grease which the manual explicitly says not to use. I don't have an good grade non-oil based greases, but do have silicone grease use for SCUBA and swimming pool equip. and 2 different viscosity silicone oils I use for PCP pump and guns. Silicone greases are readily available at a low cost. Use one of the silicone lubes I have, or buy Renewable grease?


1710212844706.png
 
Thanks @Grassguy12200 , I know I had seen that before, but couldn't remember it tonight.

The fact that it's vegetable oil-based, I'm sure it will work great in our compressors, but curious about the NLGI rating of 0? Does yours stay in the pot until you turn it every 4-5 hours? Or does it leak down and get sucked into the piston without turning the pot?
Yes it stays put. In fact I changed the grease in my Omega Aircharger. The grease was old so I replaced it and filled the pot to full. It came 3yrs ago only 1/3 full. I screwed the knob all the way up, refilled it lightly tapping on the counter top to remove air pockets and it’s set to fill. I actually filled the CS4’s grease cup too. Glad to help..Grass
 
That's why I'm confused on what is best to use. I believe the design of the Omega and CS4 are similar and are probably made in the same factory in China. So the recommend Renewable grease is most likely also the correct grease to use for the CS4. It also looks like the same grease. Silicone grease are clear not opaque off white. Which is like lithium greases. I would think and NLGI 0 would give more even distribution inside all 4 stages than the much thicker #2. This grease seems to be a oil based grease which the manual explicitly says not to use. I don't have an good grade non-oil based greases, but do have silicone grease use for SCUBA and swimming pool equip. and 2 different viscosity silicone oils I use for PCP pump and guns. Silicone greases are readily available at a low cost. Use one of the silicone lubes I have, or buy Renewable grease?


View attachment 444880
I feel your pain. It's almost as hard to get a straight answer about grease as it is to figure out which Foster fitting to get, eh?

Yes, renewable is oil-based, but it's vegetable oil, not petroleum. Silicone is synthetic, and safe for SCUBA, hence my desire to use it over most others (plus I have some on hand from my SCUBA tank visual inspection kit).

I've never used a NLGI 0 grease, so cannot claim it is too thin to use, and if that's what the Omega Trail folks recommend, it must be legit. Will keep researching...
 
Yes it stays put. In fact I changed the grease in my Omega Aircharger. The grease was old so I replaced it and filled the pot to full. It came 3yrs ago only 1/3 full. I screwed the knob all the way up, refilled it lightly tapping on the counter top to remove air pockets and it’s set to fill. I actually filled the CS4’s grease cup too. Glad to help..Grass
Ahhh, yes, it was YOUR post I read somewhere about this!! (And this is why I need to wear a nametag most days)

I cannot swear to it, but just guessing, I'd say my CS4 has NLGI 1 grease in it. It is thinner than the greases I have used on vehicles and aircraft over the years, but "tomato paste" seems about right. Brown mustard? No way. I'm not sure I could shake the cap and sling any grease out of it. Mine is more the consistency of petroleum jelly (actually, even thinner than that).
 
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Ahhh, yes, it was YOUR post I read somewhere about this!! (And this is why I need to wear a nametag most days)

I cannot swear to it, but just guessing, I'd say my CS4 has NLGI 1 grease in it. It is thinner than the greases I have used on vehicles and aircraft over the years, but "tomato paste" seems about right. Brown mustard? No way. I'm not sure I could shake the cap and sling any grease out of it. Mine is more the consistency of petroleum jelly.
This is what it looks like in the container. When it gets a little old, it does get darker..Grass

image.jpg