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Hamster For Hunter Division

I'm in the process of modifying my rifle to fit as perfectly as possible for Hunter Division Field Target come spring. It occurred to me that I might add a hamster since the stock requires extensive mods anyway. The following rule from the AAFTA at the equipment section for HD seems to apply: "Forend depth is limited to a maximum of 6 inches, measured from the center of the barrel to the lowest part of the rifle forward of the pistol grip." Forend depth is the same thing as a hamster? Can I do this or am I mistaken? Thanks in advance.
 
This is my FT gun. While I like how it looks when compared to many others its not exactly pretty. Worry about looks after function. Oh and I shoot WFTF.

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Do it yup, nothing helps as much as muc h as fit. Not too many will remember Mic the Fuzzy Limmy but the man could shoot and likely traine dmore people than most any bman alive, nice nice human also. He is the one that convinced me, use a hawk saw, bondo, or a rope wrap but it must fit you! Get into your position with eyes closed, open eyes and if you are not spot on the target you rig doesnt fit. We all learn to conform to whatever, everyone her can shoot a lever action but a rig that fit's you frre's up your body and mind so much the shot will be better.

Not mine but hunter class rigs

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John
 
Can't say I've ever been called out or even spoken too on attaching or removing a hamster / palm shelf in Hunter .... State matches, GP's, Nationals etc.

I've shot said matches with many Match directors, BOG members too .... Kinda odd ???

Not saying if an issue I can't stop the practice ... Have to look into this further.


It's an issue that your MD's aren't paying enough attention to address rules trangressions. It leads to others seeing them being ignored or even worse taking it to heart as a rule. Also Scott because you haven't been caught doesn't make it right. I'd never take pride in winning by breaking the rules, known or not.(I'm not accusing you of knowingly cheating, though maybe you've relied on others to tell you the rules without checking for yourself. Scott H does tend to interpret them much differently than intended.)

For others reading this thread that do shoot don't be afraid to question another shooter if you feel they aren't following the rules. If you don't want direct confrontation note the transgression and report it the MD. If they aren't willing to enforce the rules as stated I'd be suspect of thier safety practices as well. 
 
I love the look a a gorgeous wood stock but that Thomas has a kind of beauty about it as well. More of an industrial sort I guess. I just got finished gluing and screwing my hamster. It's nothing more that a few pieces of 1x2 pine forming an L shape. It had to because of the long cocking slot of the Diana 34. Long enough to cover the balance point with scope. Damn sure it's not going anywhere. I'll post a pic when I get finished. It's going to be really ugly painted with black plastic dip. If it had been a premium model with a really nice stock I don't thing I could've done it. The technique for slow fire pistol is similar Spy. Close your eyes, raise the pistol to the fire position. If the pistol is not pointing at the target when you open your eyes, move your feet and try again.
 
Can't say I've ever been called out or even spoken too on attaching or removing a hamster / palm shelf in Hunter .... State matches, GP's, Nationals etc.

I've shot said matches with many Match directors, BOG members too .... Kinda odd ???

Not saying if an issue I can't stop the practice ... Have to look into this further.


It's an issue that your MD's aren't paying enough attention to address rules trangressions. It leads to others seeing them being ignored or even worse taking it to heart as a rule. Also Scott because you haven't been caught doesn't make it right. I'd never take pride in winning by breaking the rules, known or not.(I'm not accusing you of knowingly cheating, though maybe you've relied on others to tell you the rules without checking for yourself. Scott H does tend to interpret them much differently than intended.)

For others reading this thread that do shoot don't be afraid to question another shooter if you feel they aren't following the rules. If you don't want direct confrontation note the transgression and report it the MD. If they aren't willing to enforce the rules as stated I'd be suspect of thier safety practices as well.


John,

Knowingly ... Obviously not. I'm taking no pride is stating what I have ... Full transparency actually.

Like much in a written rule when specifics are not SPELLED out .... INTERPRETATION can go both ways. Very much like politics which just like we have in the AAFTA .. far too much bickering over how the rules are suppose too work, are interpreted and get applied. Can only speak from a left coast perspective where our growth in the FT ranks far exceeds anywhere else in the country where the primary game played by most as a Hunter Class competitor. If one thinks taking a palm shelf on or off, keeping on or keeping it off, makes or breaks the potential of success or failure is a debate for another day.



Absolutely NOTHING in ANY sport or hobby turns folks away than Rules rules rules that are viewed as antiquated, ill applied, or make no difference. Get publicly aired for public opinion, argument or rebuttal. Doing such does no one service, self included.



We learn as we go ... NO ONE who plays FT is a saint !! and if you take such high ground you may very well stand there alone.



I'm done and advised on what some view as a breaking of a rule ... Duly NOTED


 
It's not a view and well spelled out. I understand the feel good attitude of your region. How's that working for crime and homelesness? Politics are here because not everyone feels they need to or should follow rules agreed to when competitions are entered. Ignorance and how one feels have no place in rules. And lack of enforcement is no excuse for ignorance. No I'm done. 
 
... maybe you've relied on others to tell you the rules without checking for yourself. Scott H does tend to interpret them much differently than intended.)

For others reading this thread that do shoot don't be afraid to question another shooter if you feel they aren't following the rules. If you don't want direct confrontation note the transgression and report it the MD. If they aren't willing to enforce the rules as stated I'd be suspect of thier safety practices as well.

"...Scott H does tend to interpret them much differently than intended...."

Assuming you mean Scott Hull (me), I'll respond - not really knowing what the intentions were/are, I interpret the rules as written, not as intended.

As far as the adjustable hamster question - my interpretation for Hunter Division is that an attached hamster must not extend more than 6" below the bore-line, and it cannot be adjusted during the match. And I would also interpret that to preclude installing/removing during the match as a restriction, as that results in an adjustment to the rifle.

I have never used a "hamster" in Hunter Division, and prefer to use a for-end that is as shallow as possible. When I need a little extra elevation angle, I'll sometimes use a slightly resilient pad that is 2" thick. It is not attached to the gun.

Early Hunter Division allowed attached bipods as the only attachment that could extend below 6". After the attached bipods were outlawed for shooting, I had questioned whether we could still use the bibod as a stand when not shooting. It was debated, and I still see a few people with attached bipods as stands. Since the bipod would almost certainly extend more the 6" below the gun when folded-down, it would have to be folded-up when shooting. And since "folding-up" could be considered an adjustment, then technically, it is not allowed by the rules. So I no longer have attached bipods as a stand on my Hunter Division guns, even if I never intended to "use" them down while shooting. Doing so would be a technical violation. If I see someone doing it, I might not even mention it, especially if I'm not the match director.

I have shot at a number of matches with Scott S, and as a match director, I do remember wondering if his hamster was over 6". It looked close. I see lots of things that look close. Unless things appear to be obvious violations, I'm not inclined to get out a tape measure. If it had been obviously over 6", I would have brought up the subject to him. Whether he removed it for his sitting shots, I didn't know. In the case we are discussing about Scott S, the question is not whether the configuration was legal, because it was legal either way. The question is about when it was installed. It's OK do do it before the match starts, but once it starts, it's too late to adjust/remove it.

WFTF allows adjusting, but explicitly forbids installing/removing items. Open Division allows installing/removing/adjusting items during the match. Hunter Division explicitly forbids adjusting anything for the duration of the match - which implies no installing/removing.

Having supposed/imaginary violations pointed out during a match (especially while shooting) is annoying. #1 - make sure you know the shooter's Division. #2 - make sure you actually know the rule as it applies to that Division. #3 - if #1 and #2 are met, then we have a duty to advise/confront the shooter that is in violation. If I see someone tightening or otherwise messing with the gun between lanes, I don't usually question what they are doing.

Safety rule violation, advantage rule violation, technical rule violation - each approached differently. Removing a hamster during a match is not a safety violation or an advantage violation. I consider it a technical violation - and I see technical violations quite often.
 
You are either playing golf by the rules or, well, you are not playing golf.

In a competition, golfers (or shooters) have the responsibility of calling a rules violation on themselves. 

Local matches vary greatly in rule enforcement (who wants to ruin the fun) but serious GP matches should follow the rules.

Just my opinion.

Gary
Venice, FL