Hand pumping a bottle gun?

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harrymoreland

Member
Mar 29, 2019
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Ulster, United Kingdom
Ok disclaimer, I have yet to hand pump any PCP.

I often read comments that it's easier to hand pump a tube gun ( over a bottle gun )

In my naivity I am perplexed.

I read it said that this is due to the tanks lower shot count.

My contention would be , yes to initially pump a 580cc bottle to a certain pressure , say 240 bar, will require more pumps/effort than to pump a 190cc tank to the same pressure, however, should you then fire 20 shots, using the same amount of air,

Will it not require the same amount of pumps/effort to bring both back up to 240bar.

What am I missing?.

Thanks.
 
It's volume of air. While you might have luck hand pumping a tube gun to, say 210 bar, pumping to 300 bar will require a lot of work and time. I have no problem pumping my Avenger tube to 250 bar (given enough time and pumps) but it gets frustratingly slow for 250-300 bar. In fact I usually give up in the end and hook to my air tank.
 
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I used to hand pump my Benjamin marauder i figured it would take 85 pumps to bring it back to max i used it for about a year and i got used to it but the volume of air with my fx might be 300 pumps not gonna happen i do know with the scba bottle i shoot a lot more because i dont have to pump any more i have a shoe box F10 which works like a charm but by Christmas i am gonna buy a standalone compressor.
 
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It was always misleading to me too. It takes the same pumping effort for 20 shots from a big tank as it does from a small tank. It’s just a matter of how you want to break up the effort.

I like a large reservoir on a gun I take out for long shooting sessions while shooting from a rest. I can pump it at night or when the weather is uncooperative. 

And I like a smaller reservoir on a gun that I’m taking on a woods walk for squirrels. Ten good shots is about all I’ll ever need on such an outing so no need for carrying extra weight or bulk.

To legitimately decrease the effort involves tuning and modifications to make the gun more efficient.
 
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IF you shoot your bottle gun like it's only got the air that's in a tube gun, AND it has the same BAR, sure, same pumps per shot. But I doubt anyone is talking about "pumps per shot",. they are talking "pumps to top off" after a session. The bottle gun session can be longer. So more pumps. Most people that choose a bottle gun, with it's inherent disadvantages, do so for it's one advantage, ie: more shots!

Different BAR also means different amount of effort per pump.

Here's is a direct side by side comparison where BAR is the same, I have an Akela and a Kratos, both "fill" to the same BAR, but the Kratos bottle holds more CC. So I can (and do) shoot a few more mags with the Kratos that the Akela before the POI begins to drop and I stop. This means more pumping to refill. Getting more shots is why I won the Kratos. I'm not going to use it for "the same 20 shots". Period.



Now if the Bottle gun also happens to be a 300BAR wonder vs. your average 200BAR tube,. that's not just more pumping, it's harder pumping.
 
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Not many replies to this, but my takeaways are,

A, hand pumping sucks, especially if you are doing a lot of shooting.

B, However, shot for shot, pumping a bottle gun is no harder than a tube.

I will try to explain my thinking as to why, for me, a bottle gun is a better option.

I would be pesting/hunting rather that target/bench shooting, shots required for a session, in around the 50 to 70 mark at the most, that gives me, a few checking zero, 30/40 on the rats leaves plenty for walking the fields looking for game,

If I am using the bottle, I could* spend the day before taking my time filling the bottle, and unlike say a 200cc tube, I would not need to top off or refill on the day .

* Could

As I said in the op, I have yet to hand pump a PCP, I may need to rethink this later :).

Thanks for your responses.
 
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Not many replies to this, but my takeaways are,

A, hand pumping sucks, especially if you are doing a lot of shooting.

B, However, shot for shot, pumping a bottle gun is no harder than a tube.

I will try to explain my thinking as to why, for me, a bottle gun is a better option.

I would be pesting/hunting rather that target/bench shooting, shots required for a session, in around the 50 to 70 mark at the most, that gives me, a few checking zero, 30/40 on the rats leaves plenty for walking the fields looking for game,

If I am using the bottle, I could* spend the day before taking my time filling the bottle, and unlike say a 200cc tube, I would not need to top off or refill on the day .

* Could

As I said in the op, I have yet to hand pump a PCP, I may need to rethink this later :).

Thanks for your responses.
Click to expand...

Cannot do any comparison as I only have one pcp, wolverine w/slingshot hammer, 480cc bottle.

Takeaways:

A, handpumping is not too bad, although it isn't by any means fun. Will whip you into shape quick, good for me, maybe good for you? (I actually like this about hand pumping.)

B, takes on average around 250 pumps, to go from 130 bar(which is where I began to see shots begin to drop off) to 250bar max.

C, get 150 shots from 250-130bar.

D, wolverine is a bit heavy and long w/ moderator for woods walking, wish it was a bit lighter, but it's not bad if your stopping and sitting/resting at times. 

The hand pump gets really hot. I stop at 100, let it cool down about 5 min, then stop and cool down for 5 min every 50 pumps till cylinder is filled. 
 
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Thanks Corbin, some real world figures I can get my head around.

Roughly, 250 pumps for 150 shots sounds a decent return, may I ask , again roughly, what power you have your Wolverine set up at.

Also, sorry to get personal, you find it " not too bad" may I also ask where would you be on the scale between Arnie Schwarzenegger ( 10 ) and Stan laurel. ( 0 )



I my self like a bit of a work out, but I ain't no MrO.

Again, thanks.


 
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Might get a bit in over my head here since I'm such a newb. Wolverine .22 with slingshot hammer is non-regulated, around 29-30fpe. So no adjustments there. I think you could probably change hammer springs, but I'm not ready to start experimenting with that just yet. I began counting/tracking 5 shot groups, for accuracy as well as shot count. When it got down to approximately 130 bar, I noticed the shots begin to hit low, sort of a guess at bar, since I was looking at the gauge and there are not many marks to go by. If I were to be out hunting I might limit shots to 150 bar just to play it safe, that would still be in the ballpark of 130 shots per fill. That would also equate to a few less hand pumps. Have no idea how this equates to a regulated gun since I have zero experience with one. I'm loving this wolverine and it's a fine and accurate rifle, and seems simple and less complicated than a related gun. Been shooting H&N barracuda hunter extreme 18.52gr. exclusively, it's averaging .5 -.75inch groups at 30yds. Maybe get better groups with different pellet? Maybe it's shooting as good as I am. It did not like any lighter 14-15gr. that I had, so I know that wasn't me! 

Lol Stan Laurel, no, but not Arnold either. I'm around 150-160lbs, in fairly decent shape, work outside but don't work out. Pretty active around the house doing projects and such, but don't run any marathons. You'll work up a sweat, but then your taking breaks every 5 min for the pump to cool down. You'll be glad to be done when you finally get to max fill because (for me, only being 150lbs or so) once I hit 220bar it starts to get pretty hard to push down, I'm really putting all my weight into it. There is a technique to getting the hand pump to work smoothly, I found a video online, but basically you keep your weight directly over handle and follow through till it bottoms out, bending your knees to stay above handle, nice and smooth. They advised to keep handle in different positions to avoid wearing the seals in the same place. I move it left and right, then spin it around to other side during breaks. So, not fun, but not too bad, I could keep doing it this way if need be. Might want to wear gloves or you'll get 'hand pump thumb'. Hill MK5 w/dry air system. Might add an inline water/ oil separator for more protection when I get the$.

I do have a 98cuft tank that I recently got filled and used for the first time yesterday, it filled cylinder from 150-250bar in less than 10 sec...🤪

Hope this helps 
 
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Ok disclaimer, I have yet to hand pump any PCP.

I often read comments that it's easier to hand pump a tube gun ( over a bottle gun )

In my naivity I am perplexed.

I read it said that this is due to the tanks lower shot count.

My contention would be , yes to initially pump a 580cc bottle to a certain pressure , say 240 bar, will require more pumps/effort than to pump a 190cc tank to the same pressure, however, should you then fire 20 shots, using the same amount of air,

Will it not require the same amount of pumps/effort to bring both back up to 240bar.

What am I missing?.

Thanks.
Click to expand...



To answer your original question... and I admit I may be wrong... but here goes... (chuckle)

Given your scenario, IF both guns use the same volume of air, then the number of pumps from a hand pump will be the same to get back to the same pressure. As long as the total volume of air used is the same, regardless of the number of shots, the number of pumps will also be the same or really darned close for both vessels.

The problem with hand pumping a larger bottle is when you initially fill it from empty and when you shoot it down, WAY down and use a LOT of the volume of air. Then, yes, it can be a pain to use a hand pump to get back to the desired max pressure.

However, if you don't plan on shooting long sessions, you can very easily pump the bottle back up to your max desired pressure. This also depends on how efficient the airgun is, what caliber, etc. Higher calibers and higher FPE will generally use more air per shot.

It simply depends on how many shots you require before pumping back up. If you want to shoot a 580cc bottle down to the lowest usable pressure and do that frequently, then you might need a compressor.
 
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harry - here is my thinking - if you started of at 240bar with both guns and shot 20 times using the exact amount of air from each wouldn't the bottle gun have a little higher pressure remaining?

A little higher pressure means a little more effort per stroke using the bottle gun - right?

PS - But wait - maybe it also means less strokes????

PPS - Yea that's it - more pressure means harder to pump but also means more air per stroke - so harder but less strokes for the bottle gun.


 
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harry - here is my thinking - if you started of at 240bar with both guns and shot 20 times using the exact amount of air from each wouldn't the bottle gun have a little higher pressure remaining?

A little higher pressure means a little more effort per stroke using the bottle gun - right?

PS - But wait - maybe it also means less strokes????

Click to expand...

You still have to replace the same volume of air to get to the original pressure, so same number of pumps. Of course, I could be wrong and if so, someone will eventually jump in and correct me.
 
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Ok guys, here is a idea, only a man with nothing to do ( locked down with c19🥴) could imagine.

Most agree than as the pressure rises to 200+ bar the pumping becomes more difficult, at least on the down stroke 🤔

But that's it, Eureka, 🤯

If, I devise a way to add weight to each end of the handle for these last more difficult pumps, say one 5kg barbell plate per side, that will give me the extra down force, while giving my shoulders a workout on the up stroke.





Genius, or lunacy.

I am starting to look forward to this,🤪 yep, lunacy.


 
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