Has the .30 Cal the best possible we could expect from a .25 Cal?

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mtnGhost said:
I couldn't rationalize hunting large game with an underpowered small bore rifle. There are too many variables that have to be aligned to maximize the probability of an ethical kill.

I grew up hunting with rimfires and witnessed one too many shots go wrong when they should have been kill shots. It's never a sure thing, but the odds of making an ethical kill with a precision rifle is generally around power and larger caliber.
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100% agree.

I hunt since I was a kid.

I would NEVER try to walk in the woods hunting a bear or a wolf or a cougar (without dogs) with a .22 lr, notwithstanding they could be killed with a brain or heart shot.

Big calibers were made for big animals.

Few months ago during a buffalo hunting in South America, a hunter was killed by the buffalo after receiving the shot.

Paper shooters and gel buyers may have some ideas that are not so precise in hunting circumstances.

www.ole.com.ar

Video: vino a cazar a Argentina y lo mató un búfalo

El presidente de la Federación Mexicana de Caza falleció luego de ser atacado por un animal durante una excursión por el país.
www.ole.com.ar www.ole.com.ar


In the video you can clearly see how after receiving the shot, the buffalo has enough strength to kill the hunter before expiring just aside the hunter…. (The author of the article I read would say: “Just because he was not carring the .177 that penetrates more than the .357…..)
 
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I made the autopsy to all deer I have taken with air rifles and I can confirm that at the same fpe the .357 brakes bones (ribs and scapula), with more authority than the .30 Cal.

So notwithstanding deer taken with .30 Cal was equally dead as these taken with .357, the damage caused in tissue and bones was bigger with the .357.

Some years ago there was a video in YouTube in which some guys take whitetailed deer in South America with a cricket .25..... Shot placement !! .... BUT....... I do not think the .25 Cal is a good caliber for deer.
 
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Emu said:
This could sound wird, yes !!!

To achieve 71 foot pounds of energy you need 850 fps of a .30 Cal 44.7 grain pellet.

To achieve 71 foot pounds of energy you need 970 fps of a .25 Cal 34 grain pellet.

It is very easy to tunned down a .30 Cal to give 850 fps.

Not all .25 can be tunned so high to achieve those 71 foot pounds.

A .30 Cal at 71 fpe is more lethal for hunting purposes than a. 25 at the same energy just because bigger hole to damage more tissue and better absorption of the shock at impact, causing more damage.

The point from where the above has came from is the following analysis:

I have been thinking about which one could be the very best .25 Cal to add to my PCP's.

I am getting to the conclusion that even getting the very best according to my desires (power, accuracy, comfortable to shoulder, bla, bla, bla), .25 Cal, it could never be able of what my Sidewinder .30 Cal already gives easily, even if I finally buy a Sidewinder in .25 Cal.
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The difference in caliber (between .25 and .30) is not nearly as important as the bullet fired when it comes to lethality (IMO)
 
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I've shot a few ground squirrels with 25 cal 34's and 30 cal 44's at normal distances. Man its interesting to hear the impact sound difference and also how those animals react - 30 for the win! THWACK!!!!

Then have shot steel with those pellets and the 50.1gr. The sound and momentum difference as well as the reaction of spinners is very apparent using the 50.1's. I can't help but choose the 30 for serious energy on target as far as pellets go. I sold my 30 cals because I don't hunt much and I feel better about using lighter projectiles while shooting on my property and also avoiding the extra added expense of 30 cal.

That being said I've transitioned from pellets to slugs anyway for the more powerful pcp's for long range and steel shooting. Those 49.5gr 25 cal Altaros slugs smack hard and for a long way out due to the much higher BC. Those are expensive too but I get more enjoyment out of them for what I do.

Right now I have some 50-60 fpe pcp's in 22 and 25 cal that I shoot slugs in. One in particular I swage my own slugs for and its VERY inexpensive to shoot! But in month I'll have a 100 fpe 25cal pcp for more serious pounding of steel using slugs.

Those 56 gr Zan pellets gonna smack hard!
 
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Emu said:
This could sound wird, yes !!!

To achieve 71 foot pounds of energy you need 850 fps of a .30 Cal 44.7 grain pellet.

To achieve 71 foot pounds of energy you need 970 fps of a .25 Cal 34 grain pellet.

It is very easy to tunned down a .30 Cal to give 850 fps.

Not all .25 can be tunned so high to achieve those 71 foot pounds.

A .30 Cal at 71 fpe is more lethal for hunting purposes than a. 25 at the same energy just because bigger hole to damage more tissue and better absorption of the shock at impact, causing more damage.

The point from where the above has came from is the following analysis:

I have been thinking about which one could be the very best .25 Cal to add to my PCP's.

I am getting to the conclusion that even getting the very best according to my desires (power, accuracy, comfortable to shoulder, bla, bla, bla), .25 Cal, it could never be able of what my Sidewinder .30 Cal already gives easily, even if I finally buy a Sidewinder in .25 Cal.
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I guess for me, considering I have an Impact M3 in .25 and an AF Texan SS IN .457, a .35 would fill the void perfectly.
 
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PBuffa said:
I guess for me, considering I have an Impact M3 in .25 and an AF Texan SS IN .457, a .35 would fill the void perfectly.
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.357 is really effective on white tailed deer !!!

Two of the three I have taken with that Cal were chest shots. Entrance rib, exit rib and exit scapula were broken easily. The pellet ended among the scapula ena the skin of the opposite side.

On both cases the deer was dead at 30 yards from where standing at the shot.

I use for almost anything smaller than a coyote the .25 Cal, notwithstanding I have taken coyotes an jabalina with .25 Cal.

Sometimes I hunt small birds with .177 and .22.

Whenever I think I'm will have the change to shoot anything middle size, I grab a .30 Cal for sure!

For hunting purposes, the Vulcan 3 700 mm at 120 fpe with absolute accuracy and a lot of shots per fill may only surpass in convenience by the Sidewinder .30 Cal.
 
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mtnGhost said:
I couldn't rationalize hunting large game with an underpowered small bore rifle. There are too many variables that have to be aligned to maximize the probability of an ethical kill.

I grew up hunting with rimfires and witnessed one too many shots go wrong when they should have been kill shots. It's never a sure thing, but the odds of making an ethical kill with a precision rifle is generally around power and larger caliber.
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The concept of "ethical kill" has gotten ridiculous. Bows and traps don't deliver your instant kill shot. That's why we learned about following blood trails and finding what we shoot. The larger caliber/more power argument comes from laziness and lack of skill. If someone doesn't know how to hunt, they need to stick to the supermarket. If you want to talk ethics, check out a slaughterhouse sometime. Hunting with any caliber (air, bow or powder) is much better. The main thing as I see it is to kill what you shoot and recover your kill. That simple.

Just to be clear, I understand using larger calibers and power. Just tired of the so called "ethical" angle. Like some others already said, "dead is dead". My Hatsan Bully .25 is good for most game but I'm not popping a moose (I'm in Alaska) with it. I'm currently looking to get an AEA HP Max .45 for larger game. I have a Hatsan Bullboss in 25 for small game but then got an AEA HP SS .30 which is much smaller & lighter to carry and delivers the same FPE. They have their quirks but I'm really becoming a fan of the AEA HP series. Also really like .25 but the .30 is growing on me.

By the way, does anyone know of any solid slugs in .25 and .30?
 
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MWS said:
The concept of "ethical kill" has gotten ridiculous. Bows and traps don't deliver your instant kill shot. That's why we learned about following blood trails and finding what we shoot. The larger caliber/more power argument comes from laziness and lack of skill. If someone doesn't know how to hunt, they need to stick to the supermarket. If you want to talk ethics, check out a slaughterhouse sometime. Hunting with any caliber (air, bow or powder) is much better. The main thing as I see it is to kill what you shoot and recover your kill. That simple.

Just to be clear, I understand using larger calibers and power. Just tired of the so called "ethical" angle. Like some others already said, "dead is dead". My Hatsan Bully .25 is good for most game but I'm not popping a moose (I'm in Alaska) with it. I'm currently looking to get an AEA HP Max .45 for larger game. I have a Hatsan Bullboss in 25 for small game but then got an AEA HP SS .30 which is much smaller & lighter to carry and delivers the same FPE. They have their quirks but I'm really becoming a fan of the AEA HP series. Also really like .25 but the .30 is growing on me.

By the way, does anyone know of any solid slugs in .25 and .30?
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You have a lot to learn about hunting with airguns buddy lol
 
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I strictly shoot pellets. Even though I own a 30 for me it is an utter dead zone that really serves no purpose. I can’t hunt deer with it and just about everything else I might pursue can just as easily be taken with a .25 cal 33.95 going 880 fps. Just not a lot of reason to pay double for ammo. Just silly. I suppose the .30 might fall into a coyote gun that the .25 might be a bit anemic but that’s about it. Everything you said OP is true but I would ask what do you need 71 ft/lb at 14-15 cents a round to do that 58-60 ft/lb at 7 cents a round cannot do ?
 
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MWS said:
Always looking to learn. Learn something new every day.
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Great, you should definitely change your tone on ethics then. "Dead is dead" is completely antithetical to the discipline that this community tries to foster in new airgun hunters. Disregarding ethics is literally psychopathic, to which there is no business on this forum.

And don't think that I'm not speaking from experience. The first big game animal that I took with an airgun was a decent size whitetail buck with a Texan LSS (TX2) shooting 333gn (cast) Mr. Hollowpoints at 62-63y (880FPS tune). I misjudged the range and frankly got lucky given the accuracy and ballistics of that ammo at that range, because I hit somewhat high shoulder which dropped him on the spot and partially paralyzed him. I had to dispatch him with a second shot point blank. This was the shot:


At any rate, he was at the maximum distance that I was comfortable with taking a shot (aka at the limit of my ethical range). The ammo that I was using doesn't group on paper any better than 3-4" at 50y. I have since found much better (swaged) ammo for my bore from LethalAir that hits just as hard at 290gn and gives me touching groups at 54y at higher velocity / flatter trajectory (and a higher RA4 BC of 0.27 / 0.32 G1). My original goal with my LSS was to be able to take whitetail at 100y, and while it definitely could I wouldn't take that long of a shot unless I had a spotter with me.

I have had more than a few people admit to using lower powered rifles that are hell of a lot less accurate who have taken shots at comparable and longer distances, and lost track of the injured animal. They have a conscious and deeply regret having done so. Keep in mind that bore airguns do not leave much of a blood trail (if any at all). My 25-06 and Mathews bow with broadheads will blow right through whitetail, but a big bore PCP is more like a .45 ACP or 10mm pistol than a muzzle loader.
 
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mtnGhost said:
Great, you should definitely change your tone on ethics then. "Dead is dead" is completely antithetical to the discipline that this community tries to foster in new airgun hunters. Disregarding ethics is literally psychopathic, to which there is no business on this forum.

And don't think that I'm not speaking from experience. The first big game animal that I took with an airgun was a decent size whitetail buck with a Texan LSS (TX2) shooting 333gn (cast) Mr. Hollowpoints at 62-63y (880FPS tune). I misjudged the range and frankly got lucky given the accuracy and ballistics of that ammo at that range, because I hit somewhat high shoulder which dropped him on the spot and partially paralyzed him. I had to dispatch him with a second shot point blank. This was the shot:


At any rate, he was at the maximum distance that I was comfortable with taking a shot (aka at the limit of my ethical range). The ammo that I was using doesn't group on paper any better than 3-4" at 50y. I have since found much better (swaged) ammo for my bore from LethalAir that hits just as hard at 290gn and gives me touching groups at 54y at higher velocity / flatter trajectory (and a higher RA4 BC of 0.27 / 0.32 G1). My original goal with my LSS was to be able to take whitetail at 100y, and while it definitely could I wouldn't take that long of a shot unless I had a spotter with me.

I have had more than a few people admit to using lower powered rifles that are hell of a lot less accurate who have taken shots at comparable and longer distances, and lost track of the injured animal. They have a conscious and deeply regret having done so. Keep in mind that bore airguns do not leave much of a blood trail (if any at all). My 25-06 and Mathews bow with broadheads will blow right through whitetail, but a big bore PCP is more like a .45 ACP or 10mm pistol than a muzzle loader.
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The fact that you hooked up a camera to do this tells me exactly the type of "hunter" you are. I hunt to eat, not show off. Been doing it with guns and bows for 50+ years now and have picked up a bit of experience. I'm an old fashion hunter, not a yuppie sportsman.
 
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Airgunmann said:
25 cal 34 gr does I believe
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BC measure capacity of traveling through air, that means how fast a projectile loose speed.

BC do not have impact in killing power. Bigger caliber makes more damage in tissue. Damage in tissue is what kills.

Very big cal rifles to stop cape Buffalo do not have good BC, but a lot of killing power.
 
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