Hatsan blitz mods

[ccarson2]

I have had my blitz for a few years now and something that ive always wondered is why its underpowered in comparison to most other .30 cals. It just seems to me that there are a ton of very obvious modifications somebody with more know how than me could easily do. For example


Give it a 4500 psi bottle with a regulator either adjustable or set at 2800ish psi (similar to the umarex gauntlet .30)

Give it a barrel with a twist rate that can fire and group well with both pellets and slugs (like the gauntlet .30)

Give it a bullpup stock (like they already have in europe but for some reason i cant get in the states)

Less crap trigger


I love the blitz that i have, but its woefully under powered for any kind of hunting that most other .30s can do. Mine has a muzzle velocity of under 700 fps, i wouldnt feel good hunting anything larger than a rabbit with it and even that 50 yards and in.

Is there any reason why the blitz couldn't be modified this way? Does anybody do those kinds of customizations? Id definitely be interested in something like that.

That would transform the blitz from a novelty item to something you could consider a serious contender for more high end pcps like western airguns is making.

 

[Dairyboy]

It very likely has to do with the limitations of the Hatsan full auto. They use standard valve. The Sidewinders are hammerless so totally different. Hatsans aren't known for low power spot there must be a reason there .30 full autos are low powered. You might lose the reliability of it if messed with. My uncle has one in .30 and I did shoot it once. Was fun but a novelty. I wouldn't trust accuracy past 50yds in it anyways. I know it doesn't help but your better off getting a normal .30 instead dumping time and money in it. My personal opinion.

 

[ccarson2]

It very likely has to do with the limitations of the Hatsan full auto. They use standard valve. The Sidewinders are hammerless so totally different. Hatsans aren't known for low power spot there must be a reason there .30 full autos are low powered. You might lose the reliability of it if messed with. My uncle has one in .30 and I did shoot it once. Was fun but a novelty. I wouldn't trust accuracy past 50yds in it anyways. I know it doesn't help but your better off getting a normal .30 instead dumping time and money in it. My personal opinion.

Yeah i see what youre saying. But for the sake of experimentation, what actually is limiting the blitz fps? It isnt regulated and has 3000 psi. Is it just the hammer spring? The texan isnt regulated and has 3000 psi, im assuming the major difference is going to be how hard the hammer is striking the valve.


Something as simple as a much heavier hammer spring could just pop the mv up.

Youd think any timing issue with full auto could be fixed by the proper resistance spring at the end of the barrel. Similar to whats commonly done to fix the moderator issues.

As for the new regulated bottle, could you just buy a gauntlet bottle with a ninja regulator and screw it on? Are the threads the same? If not i guess you could just tether it with an inline reg. Altaros also makes a reg for the blitz..

The accuracy issues ( mine actually shoots very well even on full auto.) You could swap the barrel out with a 1:18 lothar walther (can group both pellets and slugs) the correct length and then just use the same shroud etc.

A Bullpup stock could probably be 3d printed, the blitz stock is only held in place by one screw.

My question would be, where would you go to get one printed out?

I honestly think there would be a pretty large market for something like a kit to do this or someone who you would pay to install the mods for you/ sell modded rifles

 

[keesbo]

I own an Invader Auto. Works the same as the Blitz.
I have put a Huma Regulator in it. But it won't work. The cycling of the stock function will stop.

The auto versions have a different valve probe. There ain't an oring on it to seal it towards the hamer. It is because the air that is leaking there after a shot, is used to push the hamer back.

When a regulator is installed, even with a large plenum, there won't be enough air. Also not enough to push the piston in the barrel forwards.

The trigger is easily to modify for better operation. Polish everything and place different springs. Also make a wider and longer trigger blade.

 

[Airgunmann]

I know from playing with one that they chew up a lot of air at the lower power end it would be worse at higher power I bet it can be done but it would be a lot of work depending on the hammer weight springs and valve

 

[DonEnzone]

50-55 footpounds is nothing to scoff at, especially for an airgun with such a high rate of fire. The shotcount is also pretty darn good, especially compared to the SK19 which is an absolute air hog, even at lower power settings.

The Blitz is a fun gun. Hatsan themselves advertise it as such. It's not made for hunting. Trying to mod it into something it wasn't intended to be, is like trying to turn a city car into a race car. Im sure it can be done, yes... but you might as well just save up and invest in a real race car.

I also find it kinda funny that you want a Bullup model, and then immediatly follow it up by requesting a less crappy trigger. A bad trigger is THE key defining traits of a bullpup ^^

 

[ccarson2]

I also find it kinda funny that you want a Bullup model, and then immediatly follow it up by requesting a less crappy trigger. A bad trigger is THE key defining traits of a bullpup ^^

well, to be fair. The western rattler, and the impact mk 3 are also bullpups and have amazing triggers. In fact all the bullpup airguns that i own have better triggers than my other rifles.The blitz has a 12 pound trigger pull in a non bullpup configuration. Its actually the worst trigger out of anything I've ever shot.

 

[DonEnzone]

True true, I was mainly joking around haha. Bullpup triggers are not the same on airguns compared to firearms. I have no experience with the M3, but the SK19, Rattler and Sidewinder are all hammerless, correct? Makes sense that they would have much better triggers.

I have the Blitz BP, and while the trigger isn't great, it does the job for midrange plinking. I still find it odd that they are barely available in the US. I know Hatsan is a Turkish company but... all the other models are readily available. The BP model has been out for quite a while too, so I doubt that's the problem.

 

[MarksmanPete]

50-55 footpounds is nothing to scoff at, especially for an airgun with such a high rate of fire. The shotcount is also pretty darn good, especially compared to the SK19 which is an absolute air hog, even at lower power settings.

The Blitz is a fun gun. Hatsan themselves advertise it as such. It's not made for hunting. Trying to mod it into something it wasn't intended to be, is like trying to turn a city car into a race car. Im sure it can be done, yes... but you might as well just save up and invest in a real race car.

I also find it kinda funny that you want a Bullup model, and then immediatly follow it up by requesting a less crappy trigger. A bad trigger is THE key defining traits of a bullpup ^^

Thats what im saying .25 can do like a little over 50 fpe with slugs an with the 41 round magazine thats no joke, A quick burst of 8 slugs to lung area would be more than lethal to just about any target in 200 pound range. I got mine to handle coyotes an pest raccoons should have zero problems.

 

[Dave S Nothere]

Here's the early testing of my modded Blitz 25.

 

[MarksmanPete]

Here's the early testing of my modded Blitz 25.

View attachment 453481

View attachment 453482

Whats max power you can get on that with regulator set higher.

 

[Dave S Nothere]

I ran it set to 170 Bar and I ended up with poor accuracy and pellets in the Ronin but little extra speed. I then ported it and set the reg down to 140 and retested for this posting. It's been slow going as I had to take a break for heart surgery on Friday. I just got home but now I feel much better and I can continue working up the Blitz.

I'm also adding Sekhmet digital gauges (& adapters) plus I ordered more ammo, including a H&N .249 slug sampler, some H&N 31 grain Grizzly's, 46 grain heavy slugs, and some NSA 55.5 grain slugs. I'm getting several shipments today so I'll be doing more testing. I'll be adding to the thread soon!

I don't think It can exceed 60 FPE and if it does that it will need heavier Ammo. Stock with JSB MKII Heavy Diablo's (33.95 grain) I got 826 fps/51.4 FPE. The 22.07 gr Hornets are zinging out now at 875 fps/37.5 FPE and I think transonic skirt drag plus the 23" 18:1 barrel are limiting them there. Those things are sharp with that brass tip and I would NOT want to take a hit from one running at critical Mach like they do!

I have 800 FX Hybrid slugs (26 gr) and I'm hoping for >900 fps with them. so far, 817 fps/38.5 FPE max but they work well in windy conditions. The Blitz's valve seems to favor heavier ammo to get max FPE and the freebore with the Hybrids is .1" so a longer slug might work better (hence the NSA's I ordered).

Here's before and after porting the barrel. The factory setscrew pads are mis-timed at 178.4 degrees above the barrel port which was only 67% of caliber in diameter to boot. It's now 80%. I may polish the probe tip. The base of the valve's exhaust port partially blocks this view so I took it out for the craptacular borescope image. The valve needs to seat in the action about 1.4mm deeper to clear this air passage properly. I will do a little profiling on the valve skirt to eliminate the obstruction. It just needs a little notch in it's base where it lines up with the passage.

This is my 2nd PCP and my 3rd month in the hobby. I love the tinkering aspect!

 

[MarksmanPete]

I ran it set to 170 Bar and I ended up with poor accuracy and pellets in the Ronin but little extra speed. I then ported it and set the reg down to 140 and retested for this posting. It's been slow going as I had to take a break for heart surgery on Friday. I just got home but now I feel much better and I can continue working up the Blitz.

I'm also adding Sekhmet digital gauges (& adapters) plus I ordered more ammo, including a H&N .249 slug sampler, some H&N 31 grain Grizzly's, 46 grain heavy slugs, and some NSA 55.5 grain slugs. I'm getting several shipments today so I'll be doing more testing. I'll be adding to the thread soon!

I don't think It can exceed 60 FPE and if it does that it will need heavier Ammo. Stock with JSB MKII Heavy Diablo's (33.95 grain) I got 826 fps/51.4 FPE. The 22.07 gr Hornets are zinging out now at 875 fps/37.5 FPE and I think transonic skirt drag plus the 23" 18:1 barrel are limiting them there. Those things are sharp with that brass tip and I would NOT want to take a hit from one running at critical Mach like they do!

I have 800 FX Hybrid slugs (26 gr) and I'm hoping for >900 fps with them. so far, 817 fps/38.5 FPE max but they work well in windy conditions. The Blitz's valve seems to favor heavier ammo to get max FPE and the freebore with the Hybrids is .1" so a longer slug might work better (hence the NSA's I ordered).

Here's before and after porting the barrel. The factory setscrew pads are mis-timed at 178.4 degrees above the barrel port which was only 67% of caliber in diameter to boot. It's now 80%. I may polish the probe tip. The base of the valve's exhaust port partially blocks this view so I took it out for the craptacular borescope image. The valve needs to seat in the action about 1.4mm deeper to clear this air passage properly. I will do a little profiling on the valve skirt to eliminate the obstruction. It just needs a little notch in it's base where it lines up with the passage.

This is my 2nd PCP and my 3rd month in the hobby. I love the tinkering aspect!

View attachment 453534

Have you tried turning the hammer spring out mines set 7 turns out Im getting full expansion with 38 grain nsa in gel and some expansion for the 46 grain .25 cal .250 slugs on full fill, I think mines a little over 60 fpe its set 7 turns from fully turned all the way in , Thats about the max maybe 7 and 1/8th no more or you cant cock the hammer spring back to load a mag in the gun that should get more power as the hammer hits the valve pin harder as there is more preset tension on the hammer spring.

 

[Dave S Nothere]

Have you tried turning the hammer spring out mines set 7 turns out Im getting full expansion with 38 grain nsa in gel and some expansion for the 46 grain .25 cal .250 slugs on full fill, I think mines a little over 60 fpe its set 7 turns from fully turned all the way in , Thats about the max maybe 7 and 1/8th no more or you cant cock the hammer spring back to load a mag in the gun that should get more power as the hammer hits the valve pin harder as there is more preset tension on the hammer spring.

Thanks for the input. My spring feels like it can't take anymore preload without binding. How old is yours? Does it have the newer spring mechanism? The old cap was blank, the new one has a hole in the middle with a large adjustment screw. I was actually leaning to the idea of easing it up a bit.

BTW I tried NSA 55.5's today and while they fit in the mags fine, the bases are flat so the bolt probe tip is too long and it takes up 150% of the freebore and jams the slugs. If I cut off the last 75% of the tip of the probe it would work but then nothing else would clear the port and the freebore with a regular pellet would place the waist in the middle of the port.
Oh, well. Maybe I'll fill the hollow point of one of my FX Hybrids with tan.nerite and see what happens. Those things are hollow like an artillery shell!

 

[MarksmanPete]

I ran it set to 170 Bar and I ended up with poor accuracy and pellets in the Ronin but little extra speed. I then ported it and set the reg down to 140 and retested for this posting. It's been slow going as I had to take a break for heart surgery on Friday. I just got home but now I feel much better and I can continue working up the Blitz.

I'm also adding Sekhmet digital gauges (& adapters) plus I ordered more ammo, including a H&N .249 slug sampler, some H&N 31 grain Grizzly's, 46 grain heavy slugs, and some NSA 55.5 grain slugs. I'm getting several shipments today so I'll be doing more testing. I'll be adding to the thread soon!

I don't think It can exceed 60 FPE and if it does that it will need heavier Ammo. Stock with JSB MKII Heavy Diablo's (33.95 grain) I got 826 fps/51.4 FPE. The 22.07 gr Hornets are zinging out now at 875 fps/37.5 FPE and I think transonic skirt drag plus the 23" 18:1 barrel are limiting them there. Those things are sharp with that brass tip and I would NOT want to take a hit from one running at critical Mach like they do!

I have 800 FX Hybrid slugs (26 gr) and I'm hoping for >900 fps with them. so far, 817 fps/38.5 FPE max but they work well in windy conditions. The Blitz's valve seems to favor heavier ammo to get max FPE and the freebore with the Hybrids is .1" so a longer slug might work better (hence the NSA's I ordered).

Here's before and after porting the barrel. The factory setscrew pads are mis-timed at 178.4 degrees above the barrel port which was only 67% of caliber in diameter to boot. It's now 80%. I may polish the probe tip. The base of the valve's exhaust port partially blocks this view so I took it out for the craptacular borescope image. The valve needs to seat in the action about 1.4mm deeper to clear this air passage properly. I will do a little profiling on the valve skirt to eliminate the obstruction. It just needs a little notch in it's base where it lines up with the passage.

This is my 2nd PCP and my 3rd month in the hobby. I love the tinkering aspect!

View attachment 453534

Thanks for the input. My spring feels like it can't take anymore preload without binding. How old is yours? Does it have the newer spring mechanism? The old cap was blank, the new one has a hole in the middle with a large adjustment screw. I was actually leaning to the idea of easing it up a bit.

BTW I tried NSA 55.5's today and while they fit in the mags fine, the bases are flat so the bolt probe tip is too long and it takes up 150% of the freebore and jams the slugs. If I cut off the last 75% of the tip of the probe it would work but then nothing else would clear the port and the freebore with a regular pellet would place the waist in the middle of the port.
Oh, well. Maybe I'll fill the hollow point of one of my FX Hybrids with tan.nerite and see what happens. Those things are hollow like an artillery shell!

Got my blitz late 2023 early 2024, I got the back screw with Loctite and fully screwed in getting good power I think around 60 fpe out of mine blows up coconuts

, I was gonna ask you how do you port the blitz what do you do take off the barrel where do you get to the port I might want to open mine up a bit as well.

 

[Dave S Nothere]

You can view the port/barrel connection through the hex screw plug that sits under the action and just forward of the screw hole for the stock securing screw. It's secured with thread locker/sealant. You will have to take the valve out to see all the way past it and up into the port. I use Loctite Blue on the hex plug when I reassemble. You have to remove the barrel and drill out the feed hole with a 13/64" or a 5mm drill bit. The barrel is held in place with 2 hex set screws from the top. The holes are the rear two of the three in the front rail. The barrel lines up with these screws with flats ground into the top of the barrel just forward of the port. On mine (see the previous pics I posted), those pads were not ground perfectly above the port. They were about 2-3 degrees off which makes the barrel twist out of alignment with the port when you tighten the set screws. I used a brand new cobalt drill bit with a bit of side pressure to both make the port the right size for the caliber but to also move it over a tad so the setscrew pads are now 180 degrees above the port.

As you can see in the pics, the bolt probe tip is kind of crude and could use a polish on it's ramps. I will do this soon. It will smooth out the air flow going into the chamber, make it breathe a bit better and it will go into battery easier while saving wear and tear on the breech O ring. The skirt around the valve exhaust also needs minor porting due to alignment problems. If you've ever studied head work on an engine this is all pretty straight forward.

So far, the alignment and porting added 60 fps to my H&N Hornets even though I went from 250 Bar to 140 regulated. I think with the valve skirt cleared a bit from the port I can get another 30 fps. I'm not sure I want to do that yet as 875 FPS for the Hornets is right where transonic buffeting starts to be a problem. With the FX Slugs I can go to 1025 fps without the buffeting IF I can get the needed 60FPE out of the gun, which I think IS in it.

Getting a reliable full auto in a air gun with only 2030 psi (140 Bar) coming from the regulator to work with is not easy. FYI an AR runs about 55000 psi (3800 Bar!) so in firearms, there is more energy to waste. In the blitz, you are dealing with several parts working together and there are 2 blowback systems. One is the barrel cup and spring at the muzzle, the other is the blowby from the valve needle which hits the hammer to send it back then exits the exhaust port on the right side, via the horizontal hole behind the stock and just above the trigger. I've had thoughts of tapping that hole for a carb jet to adjust the bleed off of the hammer blow back air, giving more/less air to that section. The barrel puck/spring combo like the rest of the action requires most of all that the parts move without oil/grease or dirt slowing them down.

Here's a video on the lubrication trick.

I get an email when this thread has questions so if anyone has any about this, go for it.
My purpose here is to add to the apparent desert of detailed tuning and mods for the Hatsan Blitz.

 

[Dave S Nothere]

Tuning results:
16 different models of ammunition, including 5 different weights of the H&N .249 Cal slugs, the FX Hybrids, JSB's, H&N's and Seneca pellets. Every round was shot ten times each at three regulator settings. My Blitz is the late model 25 Cal version. I ported the transfer port in the barrel from stock 67% to 80%, added an Altaros regulator with a 14cc plenum and a DonnyFl Ronin Moderator with the 6.25" extension. The hammer has not been adjusted.

Measurements were made with the FX Pocket Chronograph V2.

This is my first try at making a graphic.

 

[windywandererfourscore]

Tuning results:
16 different models of ammunition, including 5 different weights of the H&N .249 Cal slugs, the FX Hybrids, JSB's, H&N's and Seneca pellets. Every round was shot ten times each at three regulator settings. My Blitz is the late model 25 Cal version. I ported the transfer port in the barrel from stock 67% to 80%, added an Altaros regulator with a 14cc plenum and a DonnyFl Ronin Moderator with the 6.25" extension. The hammer has not been adjusted.

Measurements were made with the FX Pocket Chronograph V2.

This is my first try at making a graphic.

View attachment 463002

Thanks for all the information. I'm just starting my adventures in the PCP world and am excited to upgrade my bottle to 700cc's. So, how do I get the old bottle off?

 

[Dave S Nothere]

Once the system is degassed 100% the bottle should spin off as you'd expect. You must loosen and move the barrel band out of the way of course.

I put my old 580cc OEM 310 Bar tank into service as a portable refill tank for my 25 cal Diana Bandit (50cc 100-200 bar). I get about 8 refills out of it.

 

[windywandererfourscore]

Thank you. No pressure I'm tank, but won't spin off. Know anyone else who have swapped out their tank? One guy said use a heat gun, but didn't go into detail, so I'm trying to find folks who've successfully done so. If you do, could you tag them in?
Gratzi