Hatsan - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Started playing around with Hatsan’s around 2013 maybe before. First bought the 95 springer in .177. Now have a cabinet full of different Hatsan models. These are/were well made, accurate and hard hitting rifles. They are also everything everybody says about them. Quality is all over the place. Some good enough out of the box. Some not.

I like the model 95 but the size to weight ratio is just not right to me. So, I made them into carbines. Top .177 Spring / Bottom .22 Vortex. Prefer the spring over the Vortex. Polishing the piston and internals, then lining the piston with blister pack plastic and polishing the spring ends smooths the behavior as well if not better than the Vortex. The potential of the trigger is not being realized because the 2 adjustment screws are about 1/16 of an inch to short. These triggers can be gotten safely to a couple pounds or even much less if desired. There are plenty of videos out there that will help someone go through one of these.

These Hatsan’s are a bargain in the box that is full of potential. German steel and Turkish Walnut. At a very good price. (not much more than a Weihrauch tuning kit) However, if one just doesn’t like to tinker, then this may not be for you. 

The Hatsan 135 QE Vortex has become a favorite. Own one in .22 and one in .25 caliber. Webley once made this “beast” (it is a huge rifle but not as heavy as it looks) in England but they gave it up and it went to Turkey under Hatsan. Fully adjustable Turkish Walnut stock, the trigger is a 4-lever (hence Quattro) as is the German “Rekord” trigger. Accurate, powerful and under $300. 

The last Hatsan a friend bought and the metal work and stock were very rough. Also the stock had no figure at all. Parts are almost impossible to get. Service is out the window. They won’t even get back to you no matter how much you pester them. Hatsan seems to be putting all their effort (and nice wood) into their PCP guns. Wouldn’t buy one now that wasn’t in my hands. These are/were good learning and project guns! 

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

I can tell you that Hatsan is NOT putting their nice wood or effort into their pcps. Good writeup on the 95s, though. Seem like a solid contender for a budget hunter. 

 

[dizzums]

my feeling about hatsan is whoever engineers their gun designs is brilliant .. but then the 'other' dept gets ahold of it and waters it down, cuts corners, and fails to execute the final product with enough precision to be worth anything past a toy ..

 

[wwo2015]

Always felt huge and heavy in the hand.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Sounds like the whole Hatsan line can be put in “ don’t buy it if you’re not holding it” category. What a shame.

The 135 in the above pic is now several years old. When they first came out. Beautiful Turkish Walnut stock and well polished metal work with deep bluing. Untouched exterior.

I also hear that Hatsan’s service/parts department is pitiful. I used them once for a Vortex piston replacement (another reason to keep it spring) years ago and they were then very helpful. Now apparently not.

Hatsan’s can still be a good value but not on-line. Pay a bit more if needed but find one that you can look over.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

The engineering came straight from Webley of England. They just can’t even copy well.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

For what it is worth:

Since my first Weihrauch “Beeman R1” in the early 80’s I’ve had/have HW-30’s, 55’s, 77’s, 80’s, 95’s, 97’s, or Beeman equivalent’s, super tuned and scoped with Leupold’s, Nikon’s, Hawkes and more. But that cheap Hatsan 95 carbine in .22 caliber $150 with a cheap Sniper $30 scope ( center gun in pic) is my go to “ Must bust that critter gun”. Short, fast and handy that 95 shoots smooth and accurate. 

 

[ScottEnglish]

What is the truth on storing the Hatsan 135 QE Vortex in a barrel down orientation to protect the Vortex piston from failing?

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

The first 135 received was early in the production. Better finishing through out however the next one .25 was very nice also. The first one had a very slow leaking Vortex gas ram. Did not notice it until after the warranty expired. Could have been what you are talking about. Not sure. Hatsan sent a new Vortex ram to me that only cost $40. Neither has ever been an issue for me since and they are stored standing up in a safe. Same with several other Vortex 95’s and never a problem. Maybe the issue was early on. No matter as when they give out (and sooner or later they will) they will be replaced with springs anyway. Gas rams have seals and seals expire. Springs don’t. They rarely break. They can be tuned as smooth as gas rams. Everything is a trade off.

 

[SteveP-52]

What is the truth on storing the Hatsan 135 QE Vortex in a barrel down orientation to protect the Vortex piston from failing?

Hatsan gas rams (most do actually) have a bit of silicone inside the body and if you won't be shooting one for awhile, storing them muzzle down lets that silicone slide down to the shaft end of the piston to keep the orings inside that cap from slowly drying out. I've done it and they can be rebuilt although it's a pain in the backside. You need the orings in that cap, a high pressure hand pump, a Hatsan fill probe and the 1/8 BPSS adaptor to connect the probe to the pump hose: 

https://www.pyramydair.com/search-results-ext?keyword=1%2F8+bpss+adaptor.

I already had the pump set up before I started but probably easier to just try and get a replacement ram

Most needing to replace one either buy the replacement ram from Hatsan, about $45 or as Bear mentioned, convert to a spring which only takes the spring, spring guide and the end cap for the spring version of the rifle and yes, the end caps are a hair different. Your other problem is getting Hatsan to either answer an email or the phone if you try calling since lately, they don't seem to do either.

 

[ScottEnglish]

Good info. Thanks.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

SteveP-52

Do you remember what size o-ring is needed to rebuild the Vortex? And how many it takes? When going through and tune a new Hatsan 135QE Vortex, the ram is filled to 150 bar. The Hatsan 95 Vortex to 125 bar. (150 bar on the 95 is to much and will destroy the stock) Maybe this is helping to keep the o-rings good. Did take the faulty Vortex apart just to examine but the leak was coming from the bottom. It’s been a while and think it was coming from an additional emptying port. If replacing an o-ring and pumping up the ram is all that is needed to restore the Vortex then do that until the ram fails altogether. Then go to springs. Thanks

 

[maxtrouble]

I witnessed another shooter's Hatsan 44 PCP trigger group fall out of his rifle after pulling the trigger. Fell onto the ground and skittered 10 feet away. I will never own a Hatsan after that.

 

[SteveP-52]

SteveP-52

Do you remember what size o-ring is needed to rebuild the piston. And how many it takes? When I go through and tune a new Hatsan Vortex I do fill the piston to 150 bar. Maybe this is helping to keep the o-rings good. I did take the faulty Vortex apart just to examine but the leak was coming from the bottom. It’s been a while and I think it was coming from an additional emptying port. If replacing an o-ring and pumping up the piston is all that is needed to restore the Vortex then I’ll do that until the piston fails altogether. Then go to springs. Thanks

If your leak was coming from the bottom, it was/is likely the bleed screw. See the pic of it below but that screw has a delrin ring under it which may well be the issue.

The rear cap itself has 2 orings on it. They don't or shouldn't take any abuse like the front ones do. While I very likely didn't have to change them, being my first try at doing it, I changed them. Stupid me never thought to measure them back then and when looking at it, saw the top one was pinched so that ram is now totally disassembled, got the micrometer out and started measuring. Both those rings are the same size and measured out at 2.5mm thick, 14.40 ID and 18mm OD. 

The front cap is brass and takes an 18mm wrench to remove. If yours was like mine, I had to use a heat gun on low to loosen things up and when it came off, had what I'm guessing is some kind of thicker blue thread locker on it. The cap itself has one outer and 2 inner orings on/in it. The 2 inner ones are the ones that take all the abuse and fail since the piston shaft slides back and forth through them every time you cock and fire. The outer ring measured 2.5 thick, 13mm ID and 16mm OD. Those inner rings were harder to measure since they were shot and a bit mangled by the time I managed to fish them out of the inside of that cap. You may well get different numbers but I came up with 2mm thick, 7.75mm ID and 11.25 OD. Not easy to take a pic of the inside of that cap but the red arrows point to the orings inside it.

The pinched rings is likely why my rebuild bled out so not sure at this point if I'll try again or just go the easier route of converting it to a spring

 

[SteveP-52]

I witnessed another shooter's Hatsan 44 PCP trigger group fall out of his rifle after pulling the trigger. Fell onto the ground and skittered 10 feet away. I will never own a Hatsan after that.

Max, while I've never had the triggers out of my PCP's, the Hatsan springers have 2 cross pins that hold the trigger pack in place so there's no worries at least on those of having one fall out of the rifle after firing.

Seeing it happen with a PCP, yep, I'd have major concerns myself but never having problems with the 3 I own, not something I'm worried about for now and I've had my Galatian for close to 6 years now.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Mr Steve.

Thank you very much for that wealth of information. Good stuff for anyone with a gas piston airgun.

Thought the same thing, the leak was coming from the bleeder screw. It did tighten down a tiny bit (snapped down) a minute or two. Refilled the ram to 150 bar and watched it month by month. Thought the problem was solved. Forgot about it for a length of time, probably 6-8 months and it cocked at about half force. Same as before. A leak that slow is a real problem. Replaced it. Been fine ever since. Been getting out of most of my airguns that rely on o-rings. “Keeping my Airforce Texan and Talon because Airforce airguns has only 4, very easy to replace, o-rings.” Even Airforce recommends replacing the o-rings every couple years. They just do not last very long under the pressure of PCP’s and these gas rams. Especially as Mr Steve mentioned that the main strut moves through a couple tiny rubber o-rings twice on every firing cycle. A spring and done. “KISS” theory. At least most gas ram barrel cockers can converted to springs.

Thank you again, Mr Steve. Good stuff to consider when selecting a new airgun.

 

[azscot]

Bear-of-Grayling

Wish I'd read your posts on Hatsan quality before I ordered mine on-line!

Scot

 

[SteveP-52]

Hatsan quality and their QC has been hit and miss for years. I've only been back into air gunning since 2015 and from joining the first of the several forums I belong to have been reading the stories about great vs lousy rifles all that time. 

Take that with grain of salt because while not as many, I've also read those same basic stories about pretty much every company out there. Low end, mid range, high end, doesn't seem to matter, they all make occasional lemons that shooters don't hesitate to speak up about. The good stories are out there, you just never seem to read or see as many of those as you do the buyers who got the lousy ones.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Mr Steve is exactly right. Many negative reviews are also owner initiated. Hatsan however, has progressively gone down hill over the years. If one can see the decline just by inspection, imagine the interior! Probably, the lower the cost, the higher the odds of getting a problem. Basic economics.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Regarding the 135QE; Went to a dot to keep the weight under my scoped HW97. Have this same dot on both the .25 and .22 135’s. Cheap dot from eBay $35 and holds up just fine. Very accurate. Total weight: 135 with dot, 9lb, 14oz. HW97 scoped, 10lb, 6oz. The 135QE in .22 caliber shoots the Crosman Premier HP’s at 1000fps. Really like the 135’s. On my favorite short list!