hBN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride) vs fouling

[igolfat8]

I think you're right using 90% or higher alcohol is probably the best medium for applying this stuff and for proper application, a spotless clean barrel. Anything else would probably not last anywhere near as long.

In my application with the mix with lemon pledge it kept the barrel cleaner than not doing anything. I plan to do the deep clean and reapply later this weekend with the alcohol.

Allen

I've mentioned this tip a few times but if you take a "copper" charbroil pot scrubber (don't buy the stainless or bronze because it will damage your barrel) then cut some off, and wrap it around a brush once or twice so it's only a snug fit in the bore, it will scrape all the lead out of the barrel quickly, and it doesn't take much effort. Only go from breach to muzzle.
Then clean as you would otherwise.
I learned this from a old friend for pistol shooting with lead bullets and it's way faster than using the chemicals or current products. Could probably follow up with chemicals but I didn't feel the need for my application back then.

BTW I'd be wary of using anything that attracts moisture inside a barrel, especially in humid areas.
Example - I won a new soft case in a raffle once, and left my FX Royale in it for a few weeks, and the steel got pretty much ruined from excessive rust because the foam inside the case, as I found out from researching about it, "attracts moisture". I live in Arizona BTW and in a arid climate.
It caught me off guard because I've left guns in my other cases and never had this problem before!

Steve, that’s a good tip and I suggest using only the Chore Boy Brand. Some of the other brands use copper plated steel strands. Always check the material with a magnet as copper will not be attracted to a magnet but the copper clad steel pot scrubbers will stick to a magnet.

 

[manabeknives]

Hexagonal Boron Nitride (hBN) Powder | Hex Boron Nitride

Hexagonal Boron Nitride Powder- One of most reliable lubricant for high temperatures. Hexagonal Boron Nitride can provide lubricity at temperatures upto 1400 deg C.

lowerfriction.com

The most efficient way to apply hBN to the land surface pores is via high pressure. The best method of achieving this high pressure is during the swaging of the pellet as it is being shot.

Apply hBN directly to each pellet DRY. Use these pellets in a clean dry bore. After about 200 pellets the bore will be good to go.

Continue to lighty dust your pellets in order to maintain the hBN density in the land surface pores.

do you need to wash the pellets before adding the dry powder?
How did you apply to the pellets? ..with a brush, rolled in the powder?
Thank you
Mike

 

[igolfat8]

When we powder coat powder burner boolits we put a handful of clean boolits in a Cool Whip container. The container must have a no. 5 on the bottom of the bowl inside of a triangle. Add a handful of hard plastic air soft BB’s to the bowl along with a teaspoon of powder paint and close the lit. Swirl the mixture for about 30 seconds. The BB’s rolling against the plastic bowl creates static which makes the paint cling to the boolits. I’m not sure if this would work with hBN but it might be worth a try? I would think the pellets should be cleaned first to remove any lube.

 

[Troy Bakel]

do you need to wash the pellets before adding the dry powder?
How did you apply to the pellets? ..with a brush, rolled in the powder?
Thank you
Mike

Use a zip-lock bag, regular size. Add an amount of hBN equivalent to a full .22 cal casing. Close the bag with most the air removed and the bag flat, then shake bag until it is coated. Add pellets and shake and roll them around until all are more white than gray but not snow balls.

I wash, size, and weight, then dust those pellets used in my Thomas BR. For the rest of the guns I just dust.

I also inspect a tin I have been using for a while. If the pellets are nearly back to their original tint of gray, I dust them again.

After I am done and still at the range, I use an Otis cable and pull 4 dry patches through the bore.

For an FX Impact, insert the Otis cable from the muzzle end and use a pair of long nose tweezers to pull the patch into the eyelet at the breech end.

This works for all bullpups allowing you to clean the bore with no disassembly.

 

[manabeknives]

been looking for more information on the HBN coatings and found this counter to using HBN

 

[dgeesaman]

been looking for more information on the HBN coatings and found this counter to using HBN

I'll keep that in mind for my 6BRA. Not really relevant to airguns.

 

[Ricklin]

Do be very aware of the alleged "Copper" kitchen scrubbers. Most of them are plated, despite what it may say on the packaging. Bring a magnet and check before using. I use an all Copper penny to remove surface rust on guns, gets the rust and does not touch the finish at all. Flood the surface with oil or CLP and rub the rust off with the penny. You can thank me later.

 

[Stubbers]

been looking for more information on the HBN coatings and found this counter to using HBN

Basically my thinking on such products. Not enough time in the day for me to care even if products like this marginally helped.

-Matt

 

[Healthservices]

Do be very aware of the alleged "Copper" kitchen scrubbers. Most of them are plated, despite what it may say on the packaging. Bring a magnet and check before using. I use an all Copper penny to remove surface rust on guns, gets the rust and does not touch the finish at all. Flood the surface with oil or CLP and rub the rust off with the penny. You can thank me later.

So how do you find a copper penny?

Allen

 

[Ricklin]

Pre 1982 are all Copper not real hard to find. I have not tried with modern plated pennies, since they too are softer than steel very likely would work just as well. I'm just amazed how well the old penny trick works I found a nice 1896 Marlin PB rusting on the workbench, furry rust on both the receiver and the barrel. Penny and cold blue and it looks great. Had it out to the range yesterday shoots great as well.

 

[manabeknives]

Well, i got done with my experiment with HBN
I did all the steps that Michael and others had laid out
cleaned-coated-fire lapped with 300 pellets
While it helped kept the barrel clean, the groups at 50 openned up by 1/4-1/2 inches
tried to change my settings to find a better balance...but it wasn't working out
I like to try things out..see if it is right for me...unfortunately, this one was did not help me
now to scub it out
Mike

 

[manabeknives]

Here something interestingly deceptive
While i was shooting with the HBN, i would run an occasional dry patch to see how it's working
The patches were coming out basically white with light skid marks from the grooves ..I thought it was working

Now that i am using some Ulta-bore cleaner ..i have used 10 wet patches through the bore ...ALL of them are dirty and sparkling with lead and heavy skid marks from the grooves

kinda weird
Mike

 

[Nofilters]

Borescope

 

[Michael]

Well, i got done with my experiment with HBN
I did all the steps that Michael and others had laid out
cleaned-coated-fire lapped with 300 pellets
While it helped kept the barrel clean, the groups at 50 openned up by 1/4-1/2 inches
tried to change my settings to find a better balance...but it wasn't working out
I like to try things out..see if it is right for me...unfortunately, this one was did not help me
now to scub it out
Mike

Sorry it didn't work for you, thats what experimenting is all about!

As I stated earlier... my first 200 shots showed a decrease in accuracy. I pulled 2 dry patches through every 50 shots and now the accuracy has been restored (I assume it was from leveling out / cleaning out any excess hBN). Now I pull 1 dry patch through every 50 shots and the cleanliness is remarkable (accuracy is the same if not better than pre-hBN).

The above testing was with a RAW HM1000x with a Lothar Walther barrel. I've already coated my FX Panthera and I hope to begin testing this week.

 

[Michael]

Given some of the information provided by others, I decided to pull one alcohol patch through before the dry patches during the seasoning process.

The first patch was rather dirty and filled with lead, then two dry patches later it was really clean.

These were shooting monster redesign pellets at 1040 ft./s.

So, is the hBN doing its job by not allowing the lead to adhere to the bore? It’s still too early for me to tell. I need to find my bore scope.

 

[manabeknives]

Sorry it didn't work for you, thats what experimenting is all about!

As I stated earlier... my first 200 shots showed a decrease in accuracy. I pulled 2 dry patches through every 50 shots and now the accuracy has been restored (I assume it was from leveling out / cleaning out any excess hBN). Now I pull 1 dry patch through every 50 shots and the cleanliness is remarkable (accuracy is the same if not better than pre-hBN).

The above testing was with a RAW HM1000x with a Lothar Walther barrel. I've already coated my FX Panthera and I hope to begin testing this week.

Thanks Michael
it was an easy experiment to do...never know til ya try
I was hoping to use the HBN to help lessen the fouling i get while using JTS pellets in a Lothar Walther

I was also gettting similar results with the dry patches I was pulling through ...very light marks from the grooves and little to no graphite or lead
the suprise is when i used a wet patch to strip it all out ..that is when i began getting dark streaks from the grooves with bits of lead.
it took around 20 before it stated to get clean ..then i soaked a mop in the 99% alcohol in a baggie and ran it through the bore and waxed it
I hope you have better results with your Pantera ..i look forward to reading about it

 

[Troy Bakel]

@manabeknives @ michael ,

I took my .22 cal HM1000X-MPA PRO MATRIX to the indoor range with a maximum distance of 20 yards.

The rifle is tuned for JTS Dead Center 22.07 grain diabolos.

I set up at 20 yards and shot off the bench using a bipod and right shoulder. My target was a M16A1 25-METER ZERO TARGET STANDARD SIGHTS.

My intention was to shoot 5 targets with 25 shots per target and no stopping to clean the barrel.

My accuracy/precision standard is to keep all shots within the 4 squares touching the center white dot.

I was cruising along good until shot 65 and it went wide high left. The next 3 shots were wide in all directions.

I stopped and cleaned the bore, first with dry patches then wet (WD40) and it took 8 dry patches to get to a clean patch. The big difference between cleaning after 25 shots and cleaning after68 was the first dry patch hit 4 serious choke points before reaching the muzzle!

On even the last dry patch you could just feel the 4 choke points. I have never let the bore get this dirty before so this was new to me.

I then ran 10 wet patches through the bore and first 3 were as dirty as the first dry patch. The last 3 wet patches were clean and the 4 choke points were gone.

I then ran 5 dry patches through the bore to remove the WD40 and none of these patches, no matter how slow I pulled, hit any choke points before the muzzle.

I also didn't find a single spec of lead.

Conclusion: I guess, which means I actually have no clue, if your bore / pellet combination causes lead shavings the bore may be too rough for hBN?!????

 

[carlos_hathcock]

This works real well. I polished my barrels and liners with 5000gr and 7000gr diamond polish. They do not foul up shooting hybrids near as offensive as before. I told a friend about a kit for the diamond polish. He used it then told me his guns that where not accurate are very accurate now. Seems like each time I use it my liners get more accurate,I've not destroyed a liner or barrel to where I've seen accuracy decrease. People have sold me liners claiming they didn't shoot good at a discount,after polishing them ,less than 5 minutes they become accurate or where accurate before I recieved them,now first thing I do when getting a new barrel or liner is use the diamond grit polish. Far as fouling,when shooting lubed pellets and my accuracy has decreased,I shoot a few jsb non lubed pellets thru my guns. Accuracy comes right back. The non lubed pellets clean the bore cause it's so slick. That's how I do it,seems to work for me very well.good luck,

I found kits on EBay with compounds identified by micron size, but not grit . Could you post a link to the kit you have? Thanks in advance.

 

[manabeknives]

@manabeknives @ michael ,

I took my .22 cal HM1000X-MPA PRO MATRIX to the indoor range with a maximum distance of 20 yards.

The rifle is tuned for JTS Dead Center 22.07 grain diabolos.

I set up at 20 yards and shot off the bench using a bipod and right shoulder. My target was a M16A1 25-METER ZERO TARGET STANDARD SIGHTS.

My intention was to shoot 5 targets with 25 shots per target and no stopping to clean the barrel.

My accuracy/precision standard is to keep all shots within the 4 squares touching the center white dot.

I was cruising along good until shot 65 and it went wide high left. The next 3 shots were wide in all directions.

I stopped and cleaned the bore, first with dry patches then wet (WD40) and it took 8 dry patches to get to a clean patch. The big difference between cleaning after 25 shots and cleaning after68 was the first dry patch hit 4 serious choke points before reaching the muzzle!

On even the last dry patch you could just feel the 4 choke points. I have never let the bore get this dirty before so this was new to me.

I then ran 10 wet patches through the bore and first 3 were as dirty as the first dry patch. The last 3 wet patches were clean and the 4 choke points were gone.

I then ran 5 dry patches through the bore to remove the WD40 and none of these patches, no matter how slow I pulled, hit any choke points before the muzzle.

I also didn't find a single spec of lead.

Conclusion: I guess, which means I actually have no clue, if your bore / pellet combination causes lead shavings the bore may be too rough for hBN?!????

Well, i haven't quite given up yet.
I now know i my barrel, the HBN did not stop the accumulation of fouling.
I scrubbed it all out, but still wnated to see if the HBN could be used as a dry pellet lubricant.
i washed and dried a batch of weighed pellets and dumped them into a ziplock bag and added 1/8 teaspoon of HBN to the bag
I coated then pellets and used these for the next part of the experiment
I went to the range and set up for 100 yards and used the coated pellets ..i wiped the excess HBN off before loading
Nearly all of the groups stayed within 1" with 1 exceptional 5 shot grouping at just 1 lil over 1/4" shot on a 50yrd target
Wasn't all good though, there were a few that went to the outer rings that left me scratching my head."WHY"
I'll continue on with the HBN as a dy lubricant and test it out a bit more
Thanks for the help Troy
Mike

edit..the device used measured radius..so it is 1/2" diameter

 

[Troy Bakel]

Well, i haven't quite given up yet.
I now know i my barrel, the HBN did not stop the accumulation of fouling.
I scrubbed it all out, but still wnated to see if the HBN could be used as a dry pellet lubricant.
i washed and dried a batch of weighed pellets and dumped them into a ziplock bag and added 1/8 teaspoon of HBN to the bag
I coated then pellets and used these for the next part of the experiment
I went to the range and set up for 100 yards and used the coated pellets ..i wiped the excess HBN off before loading
Nearly all of the groups stayed within 1" with 1 exceptional 5 shot grouping at just 1 lil over 1/4" shot on a 50yrd target
Wasn't all good though, there were a few that went to the outer rings that left me scratching my head."WHY"
I'll continue on with the HBN as a dy lubricant and test it out a bit more
Thanks for the help Troy
Mike
View attachment 513271
edit..the device used measured radius..so it is 1/2" diameter

It gets better.

When I pull a dry patch through the Thomas's bore, there are no ckoke points and the patch comes out very lightly grayed. A wet patch (WD40) comes out the same, again with no choke points at all. I clean the Thomas after each card.

When I do the same on my 0.177 and 0.30 FX Impact M3s (every 30 to 50 shots) the results are exactly the same. The Smooth X barrels are smooth as silk, the only choke point is at the muzzle.

I did not find a spec of lead on any of the patches.