Help with connecting small hpa tank to fill a pcp tank

[Airtillery]

Not sure what in the world I'm doing wrong. But the other day, one of my shooting buddies was asking me if he I would bring one of my spare hpa tanks to try out to use a buddy tank to fill his newly purchased Hatsan Jet. The tank I brought over was a First Strike 13ci 4.5k psi carbon fiber tank, that has a coiled line with a screw on tank adapter, which is then connected to a Valken on/off. Probably easier to show an image of it, rather than try and describe it.

So, when I connected the 13ci tank line to the Jet fill probe via a foster fitting connection and open the line, nothing happens. So we were unsure why it would not simply fill the Jet's 2 40cc tanks? Please note that myself and my buddy have never filled a pcp with a buddy tank, nor ever tethered a pcp to a buddy tank before, so very new to doing this. But I thought all I had to do was connect the 13ci tank to the Jet tank and it would commence filling it from the 13ci tank. The 13ci tank was completely full at 4.5k psi. And since the 2 Jet tanks totaled 85cc's & only needs 3.6k psi, I thought the 13ci 4.5k psi tank I brought would easily fill it. Now I know for fact my 13ci tank & line worked, as I used this tank to connect it to one of my Drozd blackbirds to destroy a couple things for fun.

So any help and advise on this would be greatly appreciated. Please see the attached images of the tank and hose connections I was using. Thanks!!!

 

[ctshooter]

I'll give a go at this. Most likely what's happening is that the output of the CF tank is regulated. To what psi I don't know, but I do see s 1.8k burst disk right in the middle of the collar which make me think the max output is in the 1000 - 1200psi range. Even though the CF bottle can be filled to 4500psi, it will never output more than the regulated 1000-1200 psi.

In order to fill the pistol you need the full output of the CF bottle. You would only be able to fill the pistol up to ~1000 psi which is below the pressure it even shoots at. Also - those coiled lines are usually only rated for CO2 pressure (800-1000 psi) - so don't try to push them up to 4500psi. Just because the Foster QD fittings are the same sizes does not equate to similar specs.

I assume this bottle setup is for Airsoft or Paintball and not appropriate for HPA/PCP fills. You'll need to invest in a buddy bottle setup which has no regulation in the output valve and a proper air line for PCP pressures.

It's not the only option available to you, but it feels appropriate to post what would be a proper bottle for what you are looking to do.

Air Venturi Mini Wingman, 100 cu in PCP tank, DOM 2024 | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on Air Venturi Mini Wingman, 100 cu in PCP tank, DOM 2024 at Pyramyd AIR. Shop where the experts do!

www.pyramydair.com

 

[Airtillery]

I'll give a go at this. Most likely what's happening is that the output of the CF tank is regulated. To what psi I don't know, but I do see s 1.8k burst disk right in the middle of the collar which make me think the max output is in the 1000 - 1200psi range. Even though the CF bottle can be filled to 4500psi, it will never output more than the regulated 1000-1200 psi.

In order to fill the pistol you need the full output of the CF bottle. You would only be able to fill the pistol up to ~1000 psi which is below the pressure it even shoots at. Also - those coiled lines are usually only rated for CO2 pressure (800-1000 psi) - so don't try to push them up to 4500psi. Just because the Foster QD fittings are the same sizes does not equate to similar specs.

I assume this bottle setup is for Airsoft or Paintball and not appropriate for HPA/PCP fills. You'll need to invest in a buddy bottle setup which has no regulation in the output valve and a proper air line for PCP pressures.

It's not the only option available to you, but it feels appropriate to post what would be a proper bottle for what you are looking to do.

Air Venturi Mini Wingman, 100 cu in PCP tank, DOM 2024 | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on Air Venturi Mini Wingman, 100 cu in PCP tank, DOM 2024 at Pyramyd AIR. Shop where the experts do!

www.pyramydair.com

Much appreciated, thanks for taking the time to explain this!!!

We had sort of thought about that (output psi restrictions), but weren't absolutely positive that would be the case and were left scratching our heads trying to figure this out. But what you're saying make perfect sense. To the best of my knowledge, the output psi of 13ci tank is set at 850psi. That's also good to know about the coiled line ratings.

You're correct that this bottle setup is as you describe, for paintball, or in my case used for less lethal instruments. One of which is capable of nearly 70fpe+.

Thanks for the link to the buddy bottle. I do have some other tanks between 68ci to 120ci, but unfortunately they have the same reg as the 13ci tank. It appears that it boils down to the regulator that is connected to the tank, that as you indicate, need to have no regulation on the output side. Which makes me wonder is I would be able to get an non-output reg to go in one of these larger tanks (68 - 120ci) to use as a buddy fill tank?

Thanks again for your help and advice. Now I understand all this much more!

 

[ctshooter]

The short answer is yes. Paintball tank are typically threaded in 5/8” UNF. You would need to empty the tank and unscrew the regulator from the tank to get to the bare tank threads. The you would use a valve like this:

AV 4500 PSI HPA Jubilee Valve, 5/8" UNF | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on AV 4500 PSI HPA Jubilee Valve, 5/8" UNF at Pyramyd AIR. Shop where the experts do!

www.pyramydair.com

 

[SteveV]

CTS gave you more good advice, I was off base, MY BAD -

CARRY ON & good luck!

 

[Airtillery]

"The output of that reg is 800 psi - they've been on sale, and the 15ci unit was the best deal, BUT it comes with a USELESS (for hpa aplications) it'a low pressure unit designed for paintball applications. You'll need to source something with a higher output pressure. I have the same bottle on a 1720T build, but with a higher output reg."

CTS gave you more good advice, I was off base, MY BAD -

CARRY ON & good luck!

I don't think you were entirely off base, at least in theory, I think. While I'm sure one does not exist, but if for example (me just theorizing out loud) a regulator had an output of 4.5k psi, I would think that would have enough psi to fill a 3k tank like the Jet or similar tank. That does make me wonder if someone makes a regulator that has an output bordering 4.5k. That sure would be one hellava powerful shot, lol. But you're right that tank output is 800 and believe it can be bumped up to around 1k or even maybe 1.1k psi by installing those shims in the reg. Thanks for taking the time to reply...

 

[Airtillery]

The short answer is yes. Paintball tank are typically threaded in 5/8” UNF. You would need to empty the tank and unscrew the regulator from the tank to get to the bare tank threads. The you would use a valve like this:

AV 4500 PSI HPA Jubilee Valve, 5/8" UNF | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on AV 4500 PSI HPA Jubilee Valve, 5/8" UNF at Pyramyd AIR. Shop where the experts do!

www.pyramydair.com

Thanks again for the tip and link reference. I look to be picking me up one for my larger 4.5k psi,120cc tank of the same make as the 15ci tank to convert it over into a buddy fill tank. I really appreciate your sharing your very helpful knowledge. I now kind of feel a little stupid thinking I could connect that 15ci tank to fill the Jet, lol. Got to learn things somewhere. After being surrounded around powder burners my whole life, as a kid, in the military & beyond, I have a lot of catching up to do, since I've only been in all this air propelled stuff for only about a couple years now.

 

[ctshooter]

@Airtillery - hey happy to help if I can. There's few areas in PCP where I know more, or even as much, as some of the very experienced members here. I only have knowledge in this area as my foray into PCP airguns stemmed from being into Airsoft for a few years, then getting in Airsoft HPA. My first F10 Shoebox compressor was used to fill tanks for HPA for 2 years before my first PCP airgun. This actually made my transition back into airgunning using PCP a logical step, at least more so than those trying to go from springers to PCP, as I already had the air source secured.

It's a lot to learn. When I got back into airguns in ~2017 it was a lot different than the stuff I had in the late 80s and 90s bought from Service Merchandise. Back then I didn't even know there was a high end for airguns. If it weren't for the Internet and forums like these I'd still be shooting CO2 pistols from Dick's and probably be pissing my money away on some other hobby.

 

[Airtillery]

The short answer is yes. Paintball tank are typically threaded in 5/8” UNF. You would need to empty the tank and unscrew the regulator from the tank to get to the bare tank threads. The you would use a valve like this:

AV 4500 PSI HPA Jubilee Valve, 5/8" UNF | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on AV 4500 PSI HPA Jubilee Valve, 5/8" UNF at Pyramyd AIR. Shop where the experts do!

www.pyramydair.com

Hey @ctshooter. Sorry to bother again. I was about the pull the purchase trigger on getting this valve. But realized after looking at closer, I not certain what exactly I would need to be able to connect it to a pcp tank or to fill another small tank up. I sort of have an idea, but not 100% positive and may I ask what you recommend I get to complete what I need to be able to hook it up as described. As you know, the valve has a female threaded opening and suppose I would need to get a specific type of adapter that has a foster fitting to accept a hose to be able to connect it whatever I look to fill with the tank I have it on. I dropped in a image to highlight the section I'm referring to. Thanks again for your help and advice!!!

 

[rc4fun]

https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/5-8-18u...-station-with-400bar-6000psi-gauge-50cm-hose/

 

[Airtillery]

https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/5-8-18u...-station-with-400bar-6000psi-gauge-50cm-hose/

Thanks a bunch for the link referral, I greatly appreciate your responding! Have you used this unit before and if so how did you like it? For $51 bucks, that's a heck of a deal / price and would be interested in its material quality. The other unit (Jubliee valve) is about $130, with no hose and 2nd manometer. I wonder why the price discrepancy. This indeed checks off all the boxes of what I'm looking for and certainly can accept the price, I just want to insure the quality is there. I'll need to do more research into it. Thanks again for taking the time to shoot me the link!

 

[rc4fun]

I have one just like it from Amazon and the first one went back. It is made in China and QC is hit or miss which is why I would hope that AAF would at least look at them. The gauges aren't much and need to be checked to see how accurate they are. The first one I received had the hose glued into the threads Turns out they were cross threaded. It is not as smooth as the $130 one. I have it on a 30 min backup tank that doesn't get used much, it hasn't leaked.

 

[Ezana4CE]

Hey @ctshooter. Sorry to bother again. I was about the pull the purchase trigger on getting this valve. But realized after looking at closer, I not certain what exactly I would need to be able to connect it to a pcp tank or to fill another small tank up. I sort of have an idea, but not 100% positive and may I ask what you recommend I get to complete what I need to be able to hook it up as described. As you know, the valve has a female threaded opening and suppose I would need to get a specific type of adapter that has a foster fitting to accept a hose to be able to connect it whatever I look to fill with the tank I have it on. I dropped in a image to highlight the section I'm referring to. Thanks again for your help and advice!!!

View attachment 353462

I have this valve and mine takes a male 300 DIN fitting where the green arrow is pointing. Pyramyd Air should sell the fill whip assembly that goes with this valve. They sell the valves too. I believe that Airgun Depot has them as well.