N/A High Pressure Fear - Rant/Vent : )

[JimD]

I think we tend to be more afraid of things we don't understand and things we don't think we have control over. Cars are provably more dangerous than most things we deal with but we are not afraid of them because we think we have control. I think it is appropriate to have enough "fear" of air at several thousand pounds per square inch that we are careful with it and avoid mistakes. But it sounds like the OP doesn't understand the risk as well as he wants. I think that is healthy.

I would not worry about "crushing" the tank. Any compressive stress from your hand or a tool is off setting the force of the compressed air inside the tank trying to move the walls of the tank outward. If it is a carbon fiber tank, you do not want to apply force to the tank that damages the carbon fiber. If it is metal, you don't want to damage the metal. Your hand cannot do it and tools that apply force over a fairly large area of the tank won't do it.

Damaging threads is more of a possibility but I've seen experts recommend slowly loosening a gauge as a way to depressurize a gun. The air pressure pushing on the gauge with only a thread or two engaged seems worse to me than what you could do tightening the gauge. I see your biggest risk from tightening the gauge damaging the gauge, not damaging the threads. You will have all the threads engaged distributing the force. I would be very careful not to cross thread the attachment (and thereby damage the threads) but I would not worry much about tightening the gauge. But you only want to compress the O-ring that seals the gauge.

I don't have any guns with tanks but the nuts at the end of my airtubes seems like a bigger but in some ways similar issue as your need to thread the tank on. As with the gauge, the seal should be by O-ring so lots of force should not be necessary. If it leaks, I would depressurize and change the O-ring. I don't think you'll damage the threads by tightening, however.

 

[Bernie7]

I just want to thank everyone for their answers. I was worried that this might’ve been a dunk sesh but everyone gave thoughtful responses and helped put my mind at ease. Ya’ll kick ass and I hope you have a beautiful holiday season: )

 

[TheBeardedGunsmith]

I make all of my own parts, including my own custom pcp's. I always do my due diligence in making sure that I use rated materials and proper wall thicknesses. Just keep in mind that nearly everything we deal with in this sport has a safety margin of 4.

 

[Motorhead]

The reason is it can cause galling on the metal to metal surfaces. Tom from AAA made a point of this in some other threads where a user had two parts pretty much fuse together. Now Tom uses Very Fine threading and most others are more coarse. Galling is less likely on the coarse threads - but still a posibility.

Mike at THOMAS AIR uses T.I. air tubes and also very fine threads by industry standards. While I agree silicone has no place in metal against metal applications .... FINE THREADS as mentioned a few times, MUST BE dang near surgically CLEAN so they won't gall & seize up even with proper lube

 

[Poopshoot55]

Unfortunately you are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than a high pressure air bottle. Maybe you should look into springers.

 

[Str8tshooter]

I try and remember to always wear safety glasses when filling. I worry more about a fill hose flying around from a fill probe or quick connect not properly connected. I make a habit to double check connections, and I have never had any such event happen.

 

[cavedweller]

I try and remember to always wear safety glasses when filling. I worry more about a fill hose flying around from a fill probe or quick connect not properly connected. I make a habit to double check connections, and I have never had any such event happen.

securing your whips / air hoses is wise! Not a bad idea to charge a tank inside of a cage or water column. Inspect your HP equipment often and respect hydro dates. saving $ isn't as important as saving body parts.
and for Gosh sakes
if you don't know if it's safe to unscrew something - DONT!

 

[Drew816]

You just need to suit up properly...

 

[SpiralGroove]

Yeah, I think I've gotten too used to HPA is my guns and don't worry about it enough.
Most likely because I started by fiddling with cheaper PCP's/HPA conversions which had lesser build qualities.

My unpinned (tank blocks) QB's are likely my closest brush with a problem.
Fortunately, I've copied what others have done/tested and try to be reasonable in my practices.

 

[sb327]

Just throwing this out there as far as using silicone or other types of lube on the tank oring. This is from Ninjas website but this would also apply to other applications because the interface with the bottle is the same.

Dave

 

[Str8tshooter]

If you don't know if it's safe to unscrew something - DONT!

Yes!

https://www.firefighternation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/face201810.pdf

 

[nervoustrig]

Regarding galling, I have never managed to find a credible source or scientific explanation supporting the idea that silicone actually promotes galling. I think it is simply that silicone does nothing whatsoever to prevent galling...basically just as prone to galling as a completely dry connection.

Granted, once silicone is present in threads, it is quite difficult to completely remove. Simply wiping the threads with a paper towel or cloth and then applying a more suitable lubricant may not yield satisfactory results. So if you're dealing with highly gall-prone materials like aluminum and titanium, pay particular attention to first remove any silicone contamination.

Meanwhile be aware typical anti-seize compounds are combustible. So for HPA applications some guys like to use one of the PFPE / PTFE greases like Krytox or Ultimox.

Tungsten disulfide is another effective lubricant, and it's what I use because it's both inexpensive and serves multiple purposes in the airgunner's toolbox. For this purpose I keep some it n an eyedrop bottle, the powder mixed with alcohol 50/50 by volume. Super easy to apply to threads this way. The alcohol wicks rapidly to carry the powder into the threads and then quickly evaporates. And like molybdenum disulfide, it also makes a great dry lubricant for burnishing into hammers and bolts/cocking mechanisms and the surfaces they ride on. The advantage over wet lubricants being it doesn't attract and trap dust and blowing debris, and for the hammer specifically it won't affect the strike at varying temperatures the way a wet lube may do because of changing viscosity.

FWIW this is the stuff I bought. I think it was a little cheaper on ebay at the time, and there very well may be generic sources where you could get more of it for a similar price but an ounce of this stuff will probably last a lifetime for most of us.
Amazon.com

 

[SpiralGroove]

Yes,
Doing your "Due Diligence" is a necessity when your life is on the line .

 

[DesertSilver]

You don't need to fear HP but do need to respect it. Treat your HP bottles with respect. Don't bang them around and for God sakes don't over fill them. The only bottles that would make me nervous is the ones from china. USA or European no problem. USA made Scba bottles I trust most of all. Fill hoses can fail and if you're in the wrong place it can hurt you. Think of it like a garden hose wide open whipping around but on steroids!!!

 

[Bernie7]

Regarding galling, I have never managed to find a credible source or scientific explanation supporting the idea that silicone actually promotes galling. I think it is simply that silicone does nothing whatsoever to prevent galling...basically just as prone to galling as a completely dry connection.

Granted, once silicone is present in threads, it is quite difficult to completely remove. Simply wiping the threads with a paper towel or cloth and then applying a more suitable lubricant may not yield satisfactory results. So if you're dealing with highly gall-prone materials like aluminum and titanium, pay particular attention to first remove any silicone contamination.

Meanwhile be aware typical anti-seize compounds are combustible. So for HPA applications some guys like to use one of the PFPE / PTFE greases like Krytox or Ultimox.

Tungsten disulfide is another effective lubricant, and it's what I use because it's both inexpensive and serves multiple purposes in the airgunner's toolbox. For this purpose I keep some it n an eyedrop bottle, the powder mixed with alcohol 50/50 by volume. Super easy to apply to threads this way. The alcohol wicks rapidly to carry the powder into the threads and then quickly evaporates. And like molybdenum disulfide, it also makes a great dry lubricant for burnishing into hammers and bolts/cocking mechanisms and the surfaces they ride on. The advantage over wet lubricants being it doesn't attract and trap dust and blowing debris, and for the hammer specifically it won't affect the strike at varying temperatures the way a wet lube may do because of changing viscosity.

FWIW this is the stuff I bought. I think it was a little cheaper on ebay at the time, and there very well may be generic sources where you could get more of it for a similar price but an ounce of this stuff will probably last a lifetime for most of us.
Amazon.com

Thank you!

 

[AlanMcD]

Regarding galling, I have never managed to find a credible source or scientific explanation supporting the idea that silicone actually promotes galling. I think it is simply that silicone does nothing whatsoever to prevent galling...basically just as prone to galling as a completely dry connection.

Granted, once silicone is present in threads, it is quite difficult to completely remove. Simply wiping the threads with a paper towel or cloth and then applying a more suitable lubricant may not yield satisfactory results. So if you're dealing with highly gall-prone materials like aluminum and titanium, pay particular attention to first remove any silicone contamination.

Meanwhile be aware typical anti-seize compounds are combustible. So for HPA applications some guys like to use one of the PFPE / PTFE greases like Krytox or Ultimox.

Tungsten disulfide is another effective lubricant, and it's what I use because it's both inexpensive and serves multiple purposes in the airgunner's toolbox. For this purpose I keep some it n an eyedrop bottle, the powder mixed with alcohol 50/50 by volume. Super easy to apply to threads this way. The alcohol wicks rapidly to carry the powder into the threads and then quickly evaporates. And like molybdenum disulfide, it also makes a great dry lubricant for burnishing into hammers and bolts/cocking mechanisms and the surfaces they ride on. The advantage over wet lubricants being it doesn't attract and trap dust and blowing debris, and for the hammer specifically it won't affect the strike at varying temperatures the way a wet lube may do because of changing viscosity.

FWIW this is the stuff I bought. I think it was a little cheaper on ebay at the time, and there very well may be generic sources where you could get more of it for a similar price but an ounce of this stuff will probably last a lifetime for most of us.
Amazon.com

I agree completely with using Krytox on mating threaded high pressure components and their seals. Most people shy away from it because it is expensive, but given the money we invest into our PCPs and related hardware I think it worthwhile to spend a bit more on the good lubes for them. And it is not something we use a lot of, so invest once and be set for many years. I have it in two different viscosity greases, and one oil - together I probably spent $100 on the three and they have lasted for years - including using sparingly on other worthy things.

As a side note, I use the oil to lube my Shoebox cylinder o-rings and they last a ridiculous amount of time - I'm over 160 hours on the current rebuild and they are holding as well as when I put them in (knock on wood). Tom Kaye said rings should last about 100 hours, so if I get roughly double the life I think it is a great thing.

I will try the Tungsten disulfide route on stuff too, as I do have it and use it on hammers already.

 

[Bernie7]

Just throwing this out there as far as using silicone or other types of lube on the tank oring. This is from Ninjas website but this would also apply to other applications because the interface with the bottle is the same. View attachment 417254

Dave

Great reference documentation, thank you!

 

[Ca_Varminter]

I'll never get use to it. I made my own Titanium tubes for my guns and had them sent out for destructive testing. They popped at 17,350 psi and I still pucker up when filling them.

View attachment 416822

Here is more Background on the above post.......

There is always a Pucker Factor when dealing with 4500 psi!!
If you don't have a Healthy respect for the Potential of Bodily Injury..
It will come Back and Bite a Chunk out of your Ass......
So Alway do a safety check on tanks hoses and fittings...
Also be Aware of any slight. Leaks... these can lead to a Major Problem!!
No Need to be Scared.... Just be Aware!!!!!

 

[dougroundup]

I believe that you are smart to have a healthy fear or respect for even the most often overlooked detail. Don't rely on the "they" factor as in... They wouldn't sell it; or They wouldn't allow it; or They couldn't do it..
You can't always take it for granted that someone has absolutely overseen, controlled, regulated or passed some regulated engineering standard to warrant your safety.
Fortunately, this is a well self regulated industry with some smart peers among our community. If hazards exist, they are usually quickly exposed or vetted. However it is also a small cottage industry with many small start ups and mom n pop types along with many DIY hobbyists that come and go trying to market their own form of innovation. It is not like all this stuff gets approved by some standardizing certification industry. Some stuff like air vessels might receive some certification that is specific to the pressure vessel industry, such as the case with carbon fiber and other air tanks.
The specific air reservoir built into an airgun not necessarily so....
It is shrewd to beware and to be educated. Few of us are fully accredited with engineering degrees or material science degrees. Also common sense isn't always so common.
It's easy to overlook the benign little things. Your observations are noteworthy.
I am curious as to why such a newly built and modern machine such as yours is having such pressure issues so soon into its service life. Understandable that these things require maintenance. But when spending such serious digit on a high end device, does it need to be disassembled to such extent in the first place. Maybe if you are unsure as to what extent your safe tinkering around. Perhaps it might be best to get professional or expert help or assistance. Locate a trusted mentor or maybe it is issues that should be addressed by the manufacturer or their approved service personnel?

 

[Bernie7]

Thank you for your thoughts, I’ve actually considered taking some mechanical engineering courses. The more I understand something the more comfortable I am with it. The first gen rattler was somewhat notorious for leaking but the disassembly was primarily for a barrel polish which I documented here https://www.airgunnation.com/thread...and-what-id-do-differently-next-time.1302500/
It was during the re-assembly that I noticed the slow leak from the bottle valve<>gun connection. Whereas in the past it had only slowly leaked through the plenum gauge. Although based on the feedback here I just placed an order for some krytox.