Those of you who may be involved in casting your own ammo—to quench or not to quench? Will the hardening that takes place during this process actually be akin to product that has been casted into an alloy with an actual hardening agent? Getting ready to venture down this pathway, and want to be ever mindful of protecting my barrels.
Home Slug Casters…
- Thread starter Caleb321
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In PB yes, wheel weight alloy hardens well.
However that is a poor choice for airguns. With the limited power available hard slugs just don’t work well.
Depending on the mold, I use pure lead or 40-1 alloy.
Regards,
Roachcreek
However that is a poor choice for airguns. With the limited power available hard slugs just don’t work well.
Depending on the mold, I use pure lead or 40-1 alloy.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Being a past powder burner using both sides of your interest
There has to be another factor that has to be considered
That is pressures acquired from a burner where gas checks and quenching would be an advantage
Not saying it won't work, just have to go along with Roachcreek
Dealing with tolerance in pcp's along choked barrels can possibly cause unpredictable issues
There has to be another factor that has to be considered
That is pressures acquired from a burner where gas checks and quenching would be an advantage
Not saying it won't work, just have to go along with Roachcreek
Dealing with tolerance in pcp's along choked barrels can possibly cause unpredictable issues
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After reviewing, and watching many a late night YouTube videos on the subject of casting, I kept seeing the majority of them being dropped in a bucket of cold water. Realizing myself that the quenching process can actually harden(albeit, I do not know to what degree), I posed this question. I actually purchased 300# of hospital x-ray lead sheets yesterday, already being aware of not processing wheel weights, range scrap, or most of the “lead” sinkers available today. That much—I already knew. Just am fairly curious as to how much harder lead will become going through quenching.
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I myself have used that type of lead along with other's
From what your seeking,
it's difficult to determine without having some sort of test indicator
There are a few inexpensive ways that can get you close
For instance the lead pencil test
If you Google that question,
I believe you will find what is suitable
From what your seeking,
it's difficult to determine without having some sort of test indicator
There are a few inexpensive ways that can get you close
For instance the lead pencil test
If you Google that question,
I believe you will find what is suitable
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I don't do it, but I have used wheel weights and range scrap to good effect with my big bore Badger and Texans ...
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I only use soft lead for my .30 slugs. That includes recycled pellets and stick on wheel weights. I do NOT quench any of mine. BTW, as cast slugs will be softer than they will be in 2-3 weeks where they will reach their maximum hardness for the particular alloy. A Cabin Tree hardness tester is very useful to determine the Brinel hardness of the alloy you are starting with.
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Something that may be worth mentioning. I have my master caster for bullets set up to drop into water. Only for less chance of the bullet getting deformed. I have never cast for air rifle.
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I drop into a bucket of water with a towel in the bottom, to keep from deforming the slugs. I have a Brinell tester and have never been able to see a difference doing this. If it's there, it's just a micro thin outer layer of the lead. Brinell testers work with a spring and a steel ball. You press the ball into a lead sample with your press constantly for 30 seconds. Then you measure the diameter of the dimple with a kind of a microscope with gradations. They are relatively cheap, Lee makes one for less than $50.
What's much more important than having dead soft lead, is getting the right size slug for your barrel. Slugs need to be at least .001" bigger than the groove to groove diameter of your barrel. And often .002" is better. Slugs that are too small will exit the barrel but you will often have blow by and a noticable reduction in velocity. And, at least in powder burners, this can lead to leading of the barrel.
For those that feel too hard a lead will actually damage your barrel, hog wash! These barrels are made no differently than normal firearms barrels and those have jacketed bullets flung down them at 2 to 4 times the speeds we see. And firearms that see only lead bullets are known to have barrels that last virtually forever. If there is some manufacturer out there that is making barrels out of Chinese milk bottle caps, shame on them. My advice would be to not buy those products and stick with quality stuff.
My $.02
Chris
What's much more important than having dead soft lead, is getting the right size slug for your barrel. Slugs need to be at least .001" bigger than the groove to groove diameter of your barrel. And often .002" is better. Slugs that are too small will exit the barrel but you will often have blow by and a noticable reduction in velocity. And, at least in powder burners, this can lead to leading of the barrel.
For those that feel too hard a lead will actually damage your barrel, hog wash! These barrels are made no differently than normal firearms barrels and those have jacketed bullets flung down them at 2 to 4 times the speeds we see. And firearms that see only lead bullets are known to have barrels that last virtually forever. If there is some manufacturer out there that is making barrels out of Chinese milk bottle caps, shame on them. My advice would be to not buy those products and stick with quality stuff.
My $.02
Chris
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Dropping soft non temperable cast bullets in water to prevent damage is okay.
My objection to hard airgun bullets is the force required to chamber them and to get them moving,
For my Mdl 29 I used to run two 4 cavity Lyman 429421 molds and dropping on a large sponge floating in a bucket of water. That quench made them much harder, again something not needed in our sport. Wheelweight slugs cast and quenched are said to continue hardening after quenching, but I never tested them.
Good to see that .001 over groove diameter mentioned, it is truly the rule to follow for airgun casting. Without it you are wasting time and money as I have preached for years.
Regards,
Roachcreek
My objection to hard airgun bullets is the force required to chamber them and to get them moving,
For my Mdl 29 I used to run two 4 cavity Lyman 429421 molds and dropping on a large sponge floating in a bucket of water. That quench made them much harder, again something not needed in our sport. Wheelweight slugs cast and quenched are said to continue hardening after quenching, but I never tested them.
Good to see that .001 over groove diameter mentioned, it is truly the rule to follow for airgun casting. Without it you are wasting time and money as I have preached for years.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Agreed, wheel weights, linotype, monotype and the like all have both tin and antimony in them that will water harden somewhat. Nearly pure lead though, will exhibit very little change...at least in my experience.
I should add that I made all of my PCP airguns myself using TJ and LW barrels. I cut my own chambers and throats in my airguns. Big bores (.308, .357 and .458), are always enlarged (lengthened) over what I might use for a pellet chamber, otherwise, yup, you'll never get a slug in there, hard or soft.
I do not own an Airforce or FX or...
I do have a Marauder but have not re-barrelled it...yet. And I only shoot pellets from it. I tried .25 slugs in it and did not like the results. Same in my self built .25, pellets just seem to work better in those, so I stick with them.
Chris
I should add that I made all of my PCP airguns myself using TJ and LW barrels. I cut my own chambers and throats in my airguns. Big bores (.308, .357 and .458), are always enlarged (lengthened) over what I might use for a pellet chamber, otherwise, yup, you'll never get a slug in there, hard or soft.
I do not own an Airforce or FX or...
I do have a Marauder but have not re-barrelled it...yet. And I only shoot pellets from it. I tried .25 slugs in it and did not like the results. Same in my self built .25, pellets just seem to work better in those, so I stick with them.
Chris
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Great info here that I mostly agree with. Treat air rifle slugs as you would with a low pressure black powder firearm and hope it swells to fit the bore perfectly. Quenching will not only create a hardened surface on the slug when using alloys but also reduces the diameter microscopically, and to some extent even with pure lead. Take great care not to over heat your lead and if you see frosting you are too hot. Soft, and I mean soft, lead bullets should be sized and also lubed to the bore grove diameter determined after slugging your bore. Alox/beeswax lube in at least one lubrication groove (you may prefer another lube) will be needed to prevent leading in even the finest bore when shooting lead projectiles.
Tools to do all of this is common for firearms but you may need to get creative in the PCP world. I’m no expert on PCP rifles, but I am on shooting lead bullets in all manner of guns and I think you will find that there is no substitute for a perfect bore.
Wheel weights can be used successfully as well as other lead sources but for low velocity and pressures pure lead would be desirable. I hate swaged bullets otherwise but for PCP slugs they might just be the ticket.
Tools to do all of this is common for firearms but you may need to get creative in the PCP world. I’m no expert on PCP rifles, but I am on shooting lead bullets in all manner of guns and I think you will find that there is no substitute for a perfect bore.
Wheel weights can be used successfully as well as other lead sources but for low velocity and pressures pure lead would be desirable. I hate swaged bullets otherwise but for PCP slugs they might just be the ticket.
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I'm a home caster. These are my .22 cal NOE slugs. HP drop at 23gr average. I run pure lead only. I don't water quench my slugs at all. I also have a few Molds for .25 cal as well. Both pellet and slugs. Love never having to worry about not having ammo. If I'm low, I fire up the pot and get to casting.
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Man I’m looking at the tail-less 25 and think they may work in my huben. I have followed roachcreek and have had success with shooting home pours out of my Edgun 30.
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I was having stability issues with the full boat tail and decided to throw caution to the wind and have the NOE mold decked down after hand shaving a few dozen slugs down for testing. it helped my issue a lot and I went full blown on the mold after trial. They are monsters out to about 85 yards. After that they tend to fall off on accuracy that I'm still working to sort out. The huge hollow point is addictive sounding when it connects with a target. Awesome POP. they weigh in at 34 gr if I recall.
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Hey you’re just the guy I need to talk too!
I ’m interested in getting those .22 and .25 noe slug mold’s but im curious how accurate they are. Do you mind sharing what guns you’re shooting them out of and what your accuracy is like?
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I have the same MP. 22 mold on 5,55mm diameter. If I remember correctly it weighs a little under 40 grain. I can check the weight a little later. I use pure Pb and 2% Sn alloy
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