How accurate do you think this is for 100 yards in almost calm conditions?

[Franklink]

@Ghostranger169

100 yards NSA 24.8 .218 1015 fps
Fx maverick 700mm .22 superior liner
Those are 1 inch spacing between the rings I believe.

Showing the full target. I am sure there is another group shot in the lower target at the 12 position. Not slow shooting, just wanted to see large number of shot groupings. Shooting 2 MOA.

2moa @100 was about the average 100 yard slug group that I was able to shoot also.

Had a couple outliers that were maybe just a bit better than that: the .22/17.5s and .22/20.2s from a really good Korean/Career barrel (JSAR Raptor), and a specific batch of the .22/20.2s from an unchoked 12l&g Lothar (Veteran Long) and the 20.2s from a choked 12l&g (Red Wolf Standard).

To reiterate, I think Ghostrangers best group in the OP is much better than average, and even the other 5 groups he showed are slightly better than average. And to qualify that, IN THE SUB 60ish FPE REALM.

Although, I'd still love to see folks share some 10shot/100 yard groups from slugs in the rimfire power level. Multiple on the same page like OP would be even better.

 

[Centercut]

2moa @100 was about the average 100 yard slug group that I was able to shoot also.

Had a couple outliers that were maybe just a bit better than that: the .22/17.5s and .22/20.2s from a really good Korean/Career barrel (JSAR Raptor), and a specific batch of the .22/20.2s from an unchoked 12l&g Lothar (Veteran Long) and the 20.2s from a choked 12l&g (Red Wolf Standard).

To reiterate, I think Ghostrangers best group in the OP is much better than average, and even the other 5 groups he showed are slightly better than average. And to qualify that, IN THE SUB 60ish FPE REALM.

Although, I'd still love to see folks share some 10shot/100 yard groups from slugs in the rimfire power level. Multiple on the same page like OP would be even better.

I’ll have to do that this Summer. Right now experimenting with various weight slugs NSA 38.9 at about 965 fps and 43.5 at about 915 fps plus 41 ZANs at 945 fps. Currently Superior Heavy liner which I don’t think is giving me the accuracy of the Slug A liner.
This was last Summer from 94 yards done with bipod and hand for rear rest. .25 Impact X NSA 43.5 at about 895 fps. I haven’t found more accurate than that since.

 

[steve123]

Great card Mike!

This is my best card so far with 22 cal 42gr swaged slugs out of a Thomas HPX going 787 fps. The wind went from 2-3 mph at the start to 5-6 by the time I finished it so it was a fight to try to keep centered. I've only shot four cards but in worse winds that weren't near as good. If I caught a calm day there's a slight possibility to improve but????

 

[steve123]

Last Wednesday I was concentrating mostly on a 200Y steel donkey using the same HPX and slugs. It's almost 5" from belly to back and about 12" wide. The wind was blowing but was pretty consistent. Out of around 40+ shots I missed it maybe 5-7 times, not sure exactly but it wasn't much.
If I were using 25.4gr RDM's I would have hit it only a few times.

The T-rex at 125Y and the crow at 150Y were easy to hit so I ding em a few times then move out further.

2 weeks ago I was shooting at a steel coyote at 250Y that isn't in this photo and its about the same size as this bobcat. I hit it 80-85% of the time. I used to have the donkey at 250Y but it was too hard to hit consistently. Literally a few inches makes a big difference out there using my gun and slugs. If I shot pellets at 250Y it'd be luck if I connected.

I go out to my friends place where these animals are around 1-2 in the afternoon so its very rare for the wind to be low and it does seem the wind affects vertical a lot but that's only my impression???

 

[Ghostranger169]

Ok. Thanks for the comments and input, guys. The thread has kinda gone in a couple different directions, which is totally fine. Maybe I should give a little bit more info and background:
I have a couple of Crowns(see attached pics).
Crown#1- MK2 w/700mm in ST chassis shoots MRDs @975fps. Good performance for 50 and 100 yard targets in moderate winds( 0 to 8 mph), but is long, cumbersome, and I only have a few tins of MRDs that shoot relatively well. It also shoots KOs at 968fps, and it the most accurate Crown I have from 135 to 250 yards(closer than that, not so much).
More to follow...

 

[Ghostranger169]

Crown #2- MK1 w/380mm shooting H&N 21g slugs @ 873fps. It is my most consistent rig(no reg creep, Athlon scope clicks are exactly on the dot) and my most consistently accurate from 25 to 125yards in light winds(0 to 4mph). I have tested it's consistency every month for over a year.
It also shoots JSB 18g @ 875fps(I have to lower hammerspring wheel) very precisely from 10 to 85 yards in slight wind(0-3mph).

 

[Ghostranger169]

Which brings us to the target I posted was shot by ...
Crown#3- Mk2 in ST chassis w/380mm(or 500mm) barrel that I'm trying turn into something in between the 1st two Crowns that could be used as longer range(or in windier conditions) target gun or for PRS style shooting. The target was H&N 23g slugs at 890 fps.
I was also wondering what is a reasonable expectation of accuracy, assuming the single target I provided was representative of many others like it(which it was). I've read and heard about "MOA guns" and that "if ya wanna be competitive, ya gotta start with an MOA gun". From my experience so far(which is very limited), learning what the wind does at the place where you are shooting, AND being able to find which tools(wind flags, strings, sighters, etc...) give you the best information about what the wind is doing to your projectile down range in real time seems like a FAR bigger variable than the absolute accuracy of the gun. However, I feel like a higher BC(while not giving up TOO much precision) will allow for more error on a wind call, which is what I'm moving towards.
"Why doesn't this guy just get an Impact and start shooting 40g slugs and be done with it"? Fair enough question, but I don't care for bullpups, or ALL the rig-a-ma-rolls that come with owning(and working on) an Impact. Plus I have .22 powderburners for that level of shooting(which do a FAR better job, imo).

 

[Centercut]

Thanks for all the info about your Crowns. One thing from RMAC no one seems to have mentioned is the fairly low BC lightweight slug that the PRS winner was using to win over the other top shooters by a fairly large margin. Boyd shot .22 caliber JSB 25.4 grain KO slugs, BC of about 0.084. Compare this to the other top ten shooters using 40+ grain slugs with BCs of about 0.12. What that tells me is that the primary factor in shooting, especially PRS, is shooter skill…

 

[Ghostranger169]

Centercut dishing out the "inside scoop" on RMAC! That is very interesting. 100 yard BR AND PRS winner used .22 cal(both 25.4ish grain projectiles).
Seems like .30 cal was the most popular caliber for 100 yard BR. What was the popular caliber for the slug shooters in the PRS event?

 

[Centercut]

Centercut dishing out the "inside scoop" on RMAC! That is very interesting. 100 yard BR AND PRS winner used .22 cal(both 25.4ish grain projectiles).
Seems like .30 cal was the most popular caliber for 100 yard BR. What was the popular caliber for the slug shooters in the PRS event?

Top PRS generally shot .22 caliber from 31.2 up to 40 grain at over 1000 fps. The only one I know that shot other was Keith Gibson shooting .25 caliber 41 grain ZANs at 940 fps. Keith also came in 4th at 100Y BR. He’s the “real deal” and a super talented shooter.
Most shooters at 100Y BR were shooting .30 caliber but some, more than last two years, were shooting .25 Heavy like Thayne and Val Simmons. Some of the .30 Impacts like the one Frederick Axelsson shot had a new prototype slow twist “laser” 1:40 twist liner. A few other of the FX Team shooters like Hein Fromman (2nd place) had them. They appear to me to be FX going “back to the future” with pellet barrels looking for what made the old ST Bobcat and Boss barrels so good.

 

[Rwindsor]

I'd say that is a pretty good score. I guess I missed it but what rifle were you using?

 

[Ghostranger169]

FX Crown

 

[Franklink]

Thanks for all the info about your Crowns. One thing from RMAC no one seems to have mentioned is the fairly low BC lightweight slug that the PRS winner was using to win over the other top shooters by a fairly large margin. Boyd shot .22 caliber JSB 25.4 grain KO slugs, BC of about 0.084. Compare this to the other top ten shooters using 40+ grain slugs with BCs of about 0.12. What that tells me is that the primary factor in shooting, especially PRS, is shooter skill…

Crazy to me to think that a 0.084 BC is low, relative to what the rest were shooting.

I think I need to have a personal paradigm shift in how I view airgun power output. Likely coming from my low power joy background of backyard shooting, then regular sub 20fpe field target for the last 4 or so years. I was always aware of the big bore/high fpe airguns but kinda think of them as muzzleloader type guns, capable of hunting, but not something you shoot in volume just for the sheer fun of shooting. Heck, when I jumped up the power band and bought a gun capable of fpe of mid 40s I thought I was really stepping up to the big power stuff. In my mind 45fpe is rocking, but now we've got double that being on the low end of what guys are shooting in the big comps. And those low cal/high BC slug slinging rigs seem to be getting enough shots per fill to make high volume shooting feasible (contrary to my notion of high fpe/big bore airgunning). So, I guess I need to get with the times and realize there are now two classes of high fpe airguns. The RMAC type stuff, and the big bore stuff. Or another way of thinking about it would be that there are now two ways to shoot with rimfire fpe output: with a rimfire, or with an airgun.

I think Ben allows up to 100fpe for his Xtreme Field Target matches. It'll be interesting to see how those slug shooters getting up near that 100fpe limit fare in future XFT matches, and if the past trend of high BC pellets in the 40-60fpe realm beating out slugs continues. Also be interesting to see if other XFT venues shift towards allowing slugs like Ben does here in AZ. Prove me wrong Mike, and I'll be the first to congratulate you when you shoot a perfect score in XFT with slugs. (context is tough with typed words, just a friendly challenge, no animosity intended).

 

[Centercut]

Crazy to me to think that a 0.084 BC is low, relative to what the rest were shooting.

I think I need to have a personal paradigm shift in how I view airgun power output. Likely coming from my low power joy background of backyard shooting, then regular sub 20fpe field target for the last 4 or so years. I was always aware of the big bore/high fpe airguns but kinda think of them as muzzleloader type guns, capable of hunting, but not something you shoot in volume just for the sheer fun of shooting. Heck, when I jumped up the power band and bought a gun capable of fpe of mid 40s I thought I was really stepping up to the big power stuff. In my mind 45fpe is rocking, but now we've got double that being on the low end of what guys are shooting in the big comps. And those low cal/high BC slug slinging rigs seem to be getting enough shots per fill to make high volume shooting feasible (contrary to my notion of high fpe/big bore airgunning). So, I guess I need to get with the times and realize there are now two classes of high fpe airguns. The RMAC type stuff, and the big bore stuff. Or another way of thinking about it would be that there are now two ways to shoot with rimfire fpe output: with a rimfire, or with an airgun.

I think Ben allows up to 100fpe for his Xtreme Field Target matches. It'll be interesting to see how those slug shooters getting up near that 100fpe limit fare in future XFT matches, and if the past trend of high BC pellets in the 40-60fpe realm beating out slugs continues. Also be interesting to see if other XFT venues shift towards allowing slugs like Ben does here in AZ. Prove me wrong Mike, and I'll be the first to congratulate you when you shoot a perfect score in XFT with slugs. (context is tough with typed words, just a friendly challenge, no animosity intended).

No pressure right? . Instead of perfect score I’d say “be on equal footing with the rimfires”. You realize it’s not just BC but also accuracy and most importantly shooter skill, right? I’m not bad, but not quite there compared to the top two or three shooters at the AZ XFT. Another thing to consider is that all other things being equal, the Airgun is harder to shoot accurately than the rimfire - for reasons that could be discussed in another topic.

 

[Franklink]

Quite aware that it's not just BC. If it was, then a 45fpe slug would outshoot a 45fpe .22 MRD.

 

[fiestaman]

Crown #2- MK1 w/380mm shooting H&N 21g slugs @ 873fps. It is my most consistent rig(no reg creep, Athlon scope clicks are exactly on the dot) and my most consistently accurate from 25 to 125yards in light winds(0 to 4mph). I have tested it's consistency every month for over a year.
It also shoots JSB 18g @ 875fps(I have to lower hammerspring wheel) very precisely from 10 to 85 yards in slight wind(0-3mph).

View attachment 273001

View attachment 273002

Hi, are these groups with the H&N 21g?? Do you use .217 or .218?

 

[Ghostranger169]

fiestaman,
Thats a very good question to ask. The first group posted was with .217 23g. The following posted targets were MRDs and .218 21g.
I have one Superior liner which prefer the .217 and two that prefer the .218. Both in 21g and 23g.

 

[Ghostranger169]

I shot a few "pellet vs slug" comparison targets at 30, 50, and 75 yards in light wind. These are pretty representative of results of comparisons I've done in the past, in light wind. I didn't score them, but pellets seemed a lot easier to get closer to the bull more often than the slugs at 30 and 50. It kind of felt like they started "equalling out" on the 75 yard target, but I would still give the nod to the pellet.

 

[kyles1990]

So does everybody agree that this is NOT a 100 yard sub-MOA gun/scope/ammo combo, even though it DID shoot 1 ten shot group that was sub-MOA at 100 yards?
And would you agree that this IS a 100 yard 2 MOA gun/scope/ammo under these conditions?

I would say if you can't shoot multiple repeatable sub moa groups especially in calm winds then no that is not a sub moa guarantee stamped rifle. Doesn't mean it's not accurate enough to put a walloping on some smaller game but your shot placement is a little sporadic so some animal rights activists would call you all sorts of not so nice names.

 

[jps2486]

I snapped of 3 quick shots with my Crown Saber during a lull in the wind. Could I do this again? Nah!