How accurate is your chronograph?
- Thread starter Airgun-Revisions
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As I said the ohler is for confirmation and what makes it even more accurate than the spacing is it can be spaced up to 10' recamended for the fastest projectiles. 400 fps x10 for 4000 fps rifles, on the 33 or 35.
I mistakenly said 33, my gunsmiths is a 35, maybe 35p not sure, but its over 15 years old. But I would never Hassel with it, it uses 3 screens and I think he spaces his @ 5 feet
I only have had him use it to verify mi chrony a couple times. 5 even 10 fps differance can be the differance from day to day atmospheric conditions. But my speeds were always withing single digits.
You want compact, easy, precise today,,,, buy a Garmin. If my chrony ever dies, the Garmin will be bought. But I have used a chronograph weekly and sometimes daily for over 35 years. Handguns and rifles, bows and airguns
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I am thinking i should have bought one of the "old has been " Lab radar when the new FX's came out and a few people sold cheap .
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I agree. Threads here are to learn from and this is a good one for that.
It strikes me that all this could easily be resolved by the airgun manufacturers' testing and marketing departments. If they were to advertise that their products would deliver a velocity within a given range instead of a set number, that would be real data (instead of "just marketing"). The chrono makers do it that way, so why not have the airgun makers do the same?
I would have been much happier to see 'the truth' instead of finding that the QB was only putting pellets downrange at about 80% of the velocity that was advertised (and printed on the box). A few shops will check their guns' velocity before they go out the door and that's a good thing. The manufacturers should consider doing the same. That way we wouldn't be finding the difference between truth and marketing right there on the face of our fairly accurate chronographs.
Cheers,
J~
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I just don't get the hype of the OP.
I'm not sure how many stupid-simple Caldwell chronys I sold over the 3 decades I worked weekends at a largish gun shop but it has to be 1000 or more.
The Caldwell Rep came into our shop with the new at the time CBC 48HZ processor along with a broken wire, all analog calibration rig.
In the end, the newer chronys don't fall off and they are pretty darn accurate. They meet the needs of the general public and power users get Lab Radar units that are field calibratable and are fantastically accurate.
I just feel this is a non-issue.
I'm not sure how many stupid-simple Caldwell chronys I sold over the 3 decades I worked weekends at a largish gun shop but it has to be 1000 or more.
The Caldwell Rep came into our shop with the new at the time CBC 48HZ processor along with a broken wire, all analog calibration rig.
In the end, the newer chronys don't fall off and they are pretty darn accurate. They meet the needs of the general public and power users get Lab Radar units that are field calibratable and are fantastically accurate.
I just feel this is a non-issue.
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A new chronograph when not used properly will give mixed results then user blames the gun because all chronographs are supposed to be accurate no matter what they do or the environment they’re in. This is the false pretense that a lot of newer Airguners are thinking. Or ones that just started using a chronograph.
I totally agree that a new out of the box used properly chronograph are all mostly good enough. Now a year down the line, comparing two of them, using a totally different gun like a large bore that has a vapor trail or the difference between a 60° day and a 30° day will make a huge difference that a new user does not comprehend. I’ve even had customers use a mixed tin of pellets then say that the gun is not consistent.
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A thread like this is good for the simple fact that it informs us that chronographs are mostly quite accurate. That's the kind of thing that's not general knowledge.
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I have to say mine do, if you use a pellet wieght average. But if you want accurate representation of your air gun, you'll get much less disappointment buying the top end guns. There is more bogus claims on speed from the bottom of the barrel guns, as they don't have anything else to offer. But most find that less disappointment than the accuracy they get. If they do get the velocity they claim with light pellets their getting the claim from, well the shock the noise and the failure to hit anything you aim at is more concerned than speed.
Far to many put importance on speed, although not as bad as bow shooters! 50 to 100 fps is a lot less differance out 30 to 50 yards than most understand! Archers are truly ridiculous, thinking 20 fps is a measurable differance in trajectory out 50 yards!
But for the best representation of performance, most experienced airgunners know FPE is a much better representation than FPS! That would be a less surprising representation of performance. But you can thank the shooting fraternity for why manufactures use FPS to sell their guns. Most pay more attention to speed, than anything that realy matters!
Like I tell bow shooters all the time, from one bow to the next,,,,, SPEED IS JUST A BIPRODUCT! It is my least important factor buying anything that goes bang or twang, even poooooof!
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Say what you will, this thread just got more entertaining!
Here's an illustration of our original understanding of any new measurement system.
Cheers,
J~
Here's an illustration of our original understanding of any new measurement system.
Cheers,
J~
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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William J. Casey, CIA DirectorPerhaps the bow manufacturers could fudge their numbers a little so that their products would actually exceed their customers' expectations. (Hannah Barron had that happen recently and I thought it was cool.) All marketing is just some form of psyop, so why not?
I just don't understand why it's SO important to everyone that things go faster. I watched a guy ruin a beautiful Colt 1911 at the range because he just HAD to get a certain bullet to a certain velocity. Well... He did. Once. That was the moment that he recognized his own incompetence. Luckily, he wasn't hurt. I've concluded that some reloaders shouldn't own chronographs because they're too easily lead into unsafe behaviors.
The little brother bought a break-barrel that's supposed to get to 1400-fps and he can't shoot it for beans, but he's happy with it. He doesn't understand why I can hit things with it, but then he's an engineer...
I think that in the end it all comes down to us and what we're actually capable of as shooters. A high-velocity miss is much less valuable than a lower velocity hit. Getting the average airgun buyer to understand that is where the problem lies.
Cheers,
J~
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Good question...I know my chronograph is pretty accurate as I send my RAW to Martin for servicing and ask him to tune it to my specs and when I get it back it is within a couple FPS or spot on to the tune/FPS I asked for, that's how I know....
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I started long ago with an early ohler that used broken wire sensors. Since I was doing precision shooting at the time, I had indexed results to several flavors of match .22LR. The results "looked good" compared to industry reports from that ammo. Later results with my first chrony (subsequently shot with a .44mag, it deserved it) and my second chrony and then the others (pro chrono, cheapie Asian, and lab radar) that I bought.Good question...I know my chronograph is pretty accurate as I send my RAW to Martin for servicing and ask him to tune it to my specs and when I get it back it is within a couple FPS or spot on to the tune/FPS I asked for, that's how I know....
The Q you ask is very good, but to me irrelevant. Lacking a nbs clock standard, I truly don't know how "accurate" my readings are but between chrongraphs, they are nearly 1% precise.
I do have a high-end oscilloscope and might be able to test but how do I know how accurate the scope sweep is? Well, I could compare to a rubidium time base, but this is getting asinine. All I need is precision.
I could not care less, if velocity is 784fps or 791.256fps.
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I have three. But here is what I see when I test a projectile with each. Caldwell= 920fps. FX V2= 900fps. Lab Radar= 910fps. Which one would you believe?
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Good question...I know my chronograph is pretty accurate as I send my RAW to Martin for servicing and ask him to tune it to my specs and when I get it back it is within a couple FPS or spot on to the tune/FPS I asked for, that's how I know....
I spoke to a guy at IWA who worked for a very VERY large pellet manufacturer. He told me about their setup & the tunnel & endless issues they have with detection issues of their Chronograph.
Dont assume even the biggest names have a proper quality setup!
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If you had 3 watches, all saying different times - which would you believe?
Caldwell state they electronically calibrate post construction to 2.5fps @ 1,000fps
FX dont state any accuracy figures (I love when people say theirs is accurate when the manufacturer marketing is out to lunch on its accuracy)
Lab Radar are within 10fps @ 1,000fps
The best method for calibration is to live shoot through a known certified master chronograph & the tested device at the same time. That costs time & $$$ - most manufacturers will just pump them out of a factory.
Caldwell doing electronic calibration is a good step/process, however i'm not sure how they control & calibrate the sensor distance - at a sensor spacing of 300mm/1ft, 0.25mm is a 1fps speed reading difference.
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I suspect that their "calibration" involves something like artificially stimulating the sensors in sequence with a light source, or something along those lines. Perhaps just adjusting their prescaled clock freq. It's almost certainly automated. I guarantee that for their price and volume they aren't firing projectiles over them and a calibration chrono. An assumption, to be sure, but I'm pretty confident in it. It would be interesting to know definitively.
GsT
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And yet FX Impact guys still just can’t resist asking others for their tunes. Basically my gauges are probably off, my elevation above sea level is different, the ambient temp and humidity is probably different and my chronograph probably reads different than yours. Can I still get your settings. It’s very interesting over time that some of us begin to understand that there is far less precise data than we thought. We are dealing with ballpark data.
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No idea. Never realized it was a problem for others. This is literally the first post I’ve seen with accuracy concerns with a Chronograph.
But then I didn’t buy mine to check its accuracy.
I got it to give me numbers to work with.
But then I didn’t buy mine to check its accuracy.
I got it to give me numbers to work with.
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