🔘 How do YOU define what HUNTING is?

[JungleShooter]

HUNTING — WHAT are you talking about?!?​

How do YOU define what HUNTING is?

In our community we seem to use different definitions of the term "hunting."


It seems like we would all agree that we are talking about
■ "killing wild animals that are free" ■
[not tied down or tightly encaged].


But then some people add certain requirements that must be met in order for them to qualify the animal killing as "hunting."

Here are 5 of those requirements people demand of animal killing to qualify as "hunting":
(Note that we are not talking about legal requirements, since every jurisdiction is different. Instead the question is how we as hunters define what "hunting" is.)


Opinion : Hunter is Chasing the Animal
Some require that the hunter is actively pursuing the animal, "chasing" the animal, or at least walking through the animal's habitat in search of encountering the animal.
Sitting in a blind ("ambush hunting") and waiting for the animal to show up does not qualify for them as "hunting."


Opinion : No Bait
Some require that the animal must remain "free" and cannot be influenced in any way, say through bait (where laws permit). Otherwise it's not "hunting."


Opinion : Animal will be Consumed
Some require that "hunting" is only done with "game animals."
When non-game animals are shot, it's not "hunting." In other words, unless the animal's flesh is consumed after getting shot (or it's fur/hide used), it's not "hunting."
So, for this group shooting a pest animal is never "hunting."


Opinion : "Fair Chase"
Some require that the animal has to have a fair fighting chance to escape.
To define what "fair" is has notoriously been difficult, so people have taken to define what "unfair" is:
For example, using technical helps (where laws permit) like night vision, thermo, drone searches, and game cameras disqualify it from being called "hunting."
Also, long range shots where the animal could not possibly know the presence of the hunter "disqualify as 'hunting.'"
Also, using vehicles (cars, boats) to pursue animals (where laws permit) is considered "unfair."


Opinion : The full set of requirements posited by David Crockett and his followers
To some, "hunting" requires the want-to-be hunter to apply a David Crockett approach to the process, with "fair chase" and other principles to be followed in order to qualify the killing of the animal as "hunting".




What do you think?

Why are some people so protective of the term "hunting" — that they feel they need to add certain requirements?



Cheers,

Matthias

 

[ThirdPlace]

Personally, I regard what I do in the pursuit of killing—mostly—rats, “pesting“ for the reason that you bring up, Matthias.

In “pesting,” considerations of fair chase is of little matter to me personally; further, I actively work to minimize fair chase as I, simply, want the pest removed. To this end, I use the best equipment (glorious, glorious overkill air rifles) and technology (flashlights, cameras, night scopes…). Using this equipment allows me to shoot from distance, and—while I wish to make a quick, clean kill—using a .25 pellet/slug on a rat is, largely, a hit miss affair; consequently, surgical shot placement is of less concern.

Hunting, that is, what I do for the purposes of reconnecting with the natural world and—should I be able to—kill an animal for meat and hide, is the closest thing to a religion that I have. Matters of fair chase are, personally, of tremendous importance in how I conduct myself while hunting. For myself, I define fair chase as using equipment that ensures it’s a pursuit of heart against heart: longbow/recurve, heavy arrows (700ish grains), 2 blade broadheads, and minimal distance to ensure a clean kill (22ish yards). Matters of method: ambush, still hunting…et cetera…are of a less important matter to me. I have hunted out of a tree; I have waited in ambush over a waterhole; I have done my share of spot-stalking; in all, there was no doubt that I was hunting.

This is not to say that there is not an overlap in pesting/hunting and hunting/pesting. Here’s a dopey example, I “hunted” a specific rat—nicknamed “Elvis the Rat” for months; I missed him by millimeters a number of times, only educating him in the process, making him all the more wary. When I finally killed ”Elvis“, I celebrated it as I might a trophy buck.

“Elvis has left the building!” I announced to the family, holding it up by a stout tail. My wife, rightfully, thought I was an idiot, but I was happy by my effort.

But I did not eat him. That would be gross. In the end, objectively, Elvis the Rat was a pest.

In answer to your final question, Matthias, I think we must be protective of hunting culture. To me, adding requirements is not the solution; it’s conducting ourselves, in the outdoors, with respect; it‘s also representing ourselves properly. We live in a world where people are wholly divorced from the natural world. Rather than hunting and stalking hogs, people today do little more than stock shelves and hunt for sales at grocery stores.

As noted, these are just my thoughts. I don’t pretend to know anything.

 

[JungleShooter]

Personally, I regard what I do in the pursuit of killing—mostly—rats, “pesting“ for the reason that you bring up, Matthias.

In “pesting,” considerations of fair chase is of little matter to me personally; further, I actively work to minimize fair chase as I, simply, want the pest removed. To this end, I use the best equipment (glorious, glorious overkill air rifles) and technology (flashlights, cameras, night scopes…). Using this equipment allows me to shoot from distance, and—while I wish to make a quick, clean kill—using a .25 pellet/slug on a rat is, largely, a hit miss affair; consequently, surgical shot placement is of less concern.

Hunting, that is, what I do for the purposes of reconnecting with the natural world and—should I be able to—kill an animal for meat and hide, is the closest thing to a religion that I have. Matters of fair chase are, personally, of tremendous importance in how I conduct myself while hunting. For myself, I define fair chase as using equipment that ensures it’s a pursuit of heart against heart: longbow/recurve, heavy arrows (700ish grains), 2 blade broadheads, and minimal distance to ensure a clean kill (22ish yards). Matters of method: ambush, still hunting…et cetera…are of a less important matter to me. I have hunted out of a tree; I have waited in ambush over a waterhole; I have done my share of spot-stalking; in all, there was no doubt that I was hunting.

This is not to say that there is not an overlap in pesting/hunting and hunting/pesting. Here’s a dopey example, I “hunted” a specific rat—nicknamed “Elvis the Rat” for months; I missed him by millimeters a number of times, only educating him in the process, making him all the more wary. When I finally killed ”Elvis“, I celebrated it as I might a trophy buck.

“Elvis has left the building!” I announced to the family, holding it up by a stout tail. My wife, rightfully, thought I was an idiot, but I was happy by my effort.

But I did not eat him. That would be gross. In the end, objectively, Elvis the Rat was a pest.

In answer to your final question, Matthias, I think we must be protective of hunting culture. To me, adding requirements is not the solution; it’s conducting ourselves, in the outdoors, with respect; it‘s also representing ourselves properly. We live in a world where people are wholly divorced from the natural world. Rather than hunting and stalking hogs, people today do little more than stock shelves and hunt for sales at grocery stores.

As noted, these are just my thoughts. I don’t pretend to know anything.

ThirdPlace,

that was illuminating.

Thanks for the reflection and the write-up!

Matthias

 

[Emu]

I am with number 1 definition.

I do not think shooting pigeons in a farm is hunting. But killing rats or squirrels on the same farm is hunting.

The pigeons are part of the farm as the cows, sheep, chickens and the dog of the farmer.

 

[Kleezy]

To me it's about outsmarting the animal. I'm an avid fisherman who mostly use artificial lures, and knowing the light conditions, temps, cover, cadence, speed retrieve, depth, and the right lure for the job makes me not the prey. Same thing can be applied for any animal when on paper they beat us in every way through their survivability and senses yet we still come out on top.

In many ways we really are fishing for animals, we know when they're the most vulnerable and we prey in on that. Whether it's during a rut, or whether they're simply driven by hunger to where they expose themselves to us.

 

[nervoustrig]

Why are some people so protective of the term "hunting" — that they feel they need to add certain requirements?

Because people seek validation from others, particularly with practices that carry a sense of fairness or morality. This validation seeking is analogous to deploying the bumpers on a bowling lane.

 

[dens228]

I hunt for things myself or others are going to eat.
I pest for things I'm going to discard.

 

[JoeRJr]

I never stopped to think about this until the question came up.
I call it hunting when I'm going to kill it and consume it.
I call it shooting when I'm doing pest control.

The lines can easily blur though. If a deer was in my back yard and I walked out to shoot it, I'd definitely consume it but I wouldn't think I hunted it.
I trap all kinds of critters. I catch, and sometimes shoot, beavers to consume them but don't call that hunting either. (Don't knock it until you try it.)

Hunting is a pretty personalized activity. I have friends that strictly trophy hunt. When they kill something they celebrate it like they won the Superbowl. As someone already mentioned, for others it's almost a religious experience, and done with reverence. And for some it's a chance to bond with friends and family.
All of these are legitimate reasons to hunt, and I'm glad they are getting to do something they enjoy. When it comes to drawing dividing lines like listed above, I'll leave that to the lawyers.

Joe

 

[JungleShooter]

Because people seek validation from others, particularly with practices that carry a sense of fairness or morality. This validation seeking is analogous to deploying the bumpers on a bowling lane.

Jason, that's a pretty profound analysis of this subjective issue.

Thanks,

Matthias

 

[JungleShooter]

When it comes to drawing dividing lines like listed above, I'll leave that to the lawyers.

Joe

Joe,

I like that approach — of not drawing such dividing lines —
by telling another airgunner:
"What you do is NOT HUNTING!"

Let's each enjoy our type of airgunning — without telling others if they have the "right" to call it "Hunting" or not.

Matthias

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I call it pesting when I'm shooting over bait, because I only bait squirrels and birds. The squirrels will be eaten if I get enough of them. If it's just one or two, I usually toss them out or feed my snake.

If I'm actually going to the woods, then it's hunting, and I make a day of it and bring a small bag of crushed ice to pack inside the gutted squirrels/rabbits to keep them fresher longer. Those go inside a feezer bag inside my lightweight fabric cooler with coldpaks.

Nothing worse than taking 5 or 6 squirrels/rabbits on a 60-70 degree day and they turn sour before I can get home to fully dress them. Heaven forbid my bunnies spoil, thems good eatin!

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Buck McNeely is all you need to know.

 

[JungleShooter]

I call it pesting when I'm shooting over bait, because I only bait squirrels and birds.

Interesting, thanks for the input.

So, for you using bait is a dividing line that disqualifies your activity as "Hunting."

I have heard some people discuss vigorously what qualifies as BAIT —
and therefore which activity deserves the term "HUNTING":

(a)
Shooting at the quarry while it feeds on its favorite food —
which I put there beforehand.
Examples: squirrel feeder with seeds; for deer: food plot

(b)
Shooting at the quarry while if feeds on its favorite food —
which happens to be at this location for the sake of humans (or animals other than the quarry) — and which is the reason why I came here to shoot at it.
Examples: for squirrels: pecan trees, bird feeder with seeds that are destined for the birds, not for the squirrels; for deer: an apple orchard


If baiting disqualifies from "Hunting"... —
what is baiting?

Matthias

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

Interesting, thanks for the input.

So, for you using bait is a dividing line that disqualifies your activity as "Hunting."

I have heard some people discuss vigorously what qualifies as BAIT —
and therefore which activity deserves the term "HUNTING":

(a)
Shooting at the quarry while it feeds on its favorite food —
which I put there beforehand.
Examples: squirrel feeder with seeds; for deer: food plot

(b)
Shooting at the quarry while if feeds on its favorite food —
which happens to be at this location for the sake of humans (or animals other than the quarry) — and which is the reason why I came here to shoot at it.
Examples: for squirrels: pecan trees, bird feeder with seeds that are destined for the birds, not for the squirrels; for deer: an apple orchard


If baiting disqualifies from "Hunting"... —
what is baiting?

Matthias

Here in Missouri, you aren't allowed to bait deer and certain other game animals. All bait must be removed for minimum of 10 days before you can hunt deer or turkey I believe.

Using bait to lure problem squirrels, birds, rodents to a safe shooting area is preferred If trapping isn't possible or effective. It's not illegal to bait small game I believe. Basically, no one cares if you bait a rodent even in the woods. As long as you don't have more than 10 dead on your person and a total less than 20 at your house, you're legal.

As for shooting at deer on the edge of a corn field... that's the grey area lol. Technically, it IS a bait station. Those deer know where that corn field is, but the corn field wasn't put their specifically to draw in the deer. As for baiting turkey, I wouldn't know, I don't hunt them since I don't like wild turkey flavor. Too gamey.

 

[airgunmike56]

I call hunting , To hunt for something, I am hunting worms to go fishing with,, I am not going to say I am hunting my shoes that's very different,,, I maybe shooting pigeons and sparrows but I am hunting them, Hunting is any animal that you are after, In my kitchen I may get a fly swatter and hunt flys or I may shoot them on a egg splattered cardboard in my back yard at 48 yards with my PCP,,
This is a very K.I.S.S subject
Mike

 

[JungleShooter]

Here in Missouri, you aren't allowed to bait deer and certain other game animals. All bait must be removed for minimum of 10 days before you can hunt deer or turkey I believe.

Using bait to lure problem squirrels, birds, rodents to a safe shooting area is preferred If trapping isn't possible or effective. It's not illegal to bait small game I believe. Basically, no one cares if you bait a rodent even in the woods. As long as you don't have more than 10 dead on your person and a total less than 20 at your house, you're legal.

As for shooting at deer on the edge of a corn field... that's the grey area lol. Technically, it IS a bait station. Those deer know where that corn field is, but the corn field wasn't put their specifically to draw in the deer. As for baiting turkey, I wouldn't know, I don't hunt them since I don't like wild turkey flavor. Too gamey.

Good points.

But it's easy to slip into arguing from legal grounds — what's allowed, what's legal, all that.

And, for this discussion alone(!) those laws do not concern us — because they change, and in different states and countries they vary wildly.....

The question is: How do YOU DEFINE "HUNTING"? (Not the law, nor your grandpa.)


Thanks for taking the time to respond!

Matthias

 

[weevil]

I associate it with eating. I grew up in Portugal and my father would shoot rabbits, many of which were taken in the garden as pests. I have no idea if it was legal but they ended up in “Coelho à Caçador” which translates to Hunter Rabbit (stew) and is analogous to the Chasseur and Cacciatore dishes in France and Italy. I think that many people from Europe would agree that if you shoot it and eat it, it is hunting.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

Good points.

But it's easy to slip into arguing from legal grounds — what's allowed, what's legal, all that.

And, for this discussion alone(!) those laws do not concern us — because they change, and in different states and countries they vary wildly.....

The question is: How do YOU DEFINE "HUNTING"? (Not the law, nor your grandpa.)


Thanks for taking the time to respond!

Matthias

Well, being a smart law abiding individual, I tend to hunt when and where it's allowed within the law. Our country takes conservation and poaching VERY seriously. Since I don't want to cell up with Bubba or pay a hefty fine, I hunt within the laws. I pest when/where it's legal to do so.

So did my grandpa lol. So going around saying things like what do I consider hunting in moot. I can consider taking my neighbor's car for a joy ride, just that, a joy ride... doesn't make it legal and not auto theft if I didn't have their explicit consent.

I'm not a big fan of people who say LAWS DONT CONCERN US. Those individuals are currently destroying my country on an epidemic level.

 

[Emu]

Another view of the same scenary:

I think that hunting is a wider concept than killing, that is more specific.

The hunting begins many months before. You need to practice, you need to get all needed equipment, the day of the travel starts a time out of ANY OTHER day by day worries and begins a special time to be with your companion and talk with them as you may not do it in the day by day.

The hunting implies an effort to search and find what you are going to kill, if you are lucky and successful. Without this search there's no hunting, just killing.

The concept of hunt implies by nature the high possibility of not killing

 

[JungleShooter]

Well, being a smart law abiding individual, I tend to hunt when and where it's allowed within the law. Our country takes conservation and poaching VERY seriously. Since I don't want to cell up with Bubba or pay a hefty fine, I hunt within the laws. I pest when/where it's legal to do so.

So did my grandpa lol. So going around saying things like what do I consider hunting in moot. I can consider taking my neighbor's car for a joy ride, just that, a joy ride... doesn't make it legal and not auto theft if I didn't have their explicit consent.

I'm not a big fan of people who say LAWS DONT CONCERN US. Those individuals are currently destroying my country on an epidemic level.

Wow, wow, wow — I am sorry that I didn't spoke with more clarity.

➠ I am not suggesting we disobey local or federal laws regulating our hobby, hunting, pesting, or whatever you call it!!

I am sorry that my words could be understood that way.


➧ All I wanted to clarify is a definition of "Hunting" — not a definition of what's legal (as that changes all the time, and is different in each country, state, and even township).



Dr. Kralenstein, I share your concern about the destructive force of people disregarding laws.
I currently live and work in a developing country, and I have to witness some of the most raw consequences that disregard for law is causing.




, with that clarified, let's continue with the various definitions of "Hunting" — actually YOUR personal definition.

Matthias