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How do you FT shooters do it?

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josh3rd

josh3rd

Member
Apr 2, 2015
954
47
Newark, Delaware, United States
I am a springer shooter, no doubt about it. I experimented w/PCP's, got a pump and a 4500psi tank, but a springer lover/fan nonetheless. Here is my quandary. I shoot hunter class in field target events in the States. So therefore I use a small bucket/seat and shooting sticks. My go to sweetheart is my AA Prosport. I also have a RWS 54 in 22cal.

Lately, while we were stuck at home during our quarantine I have been trying to shoot in Field Target positions. Basically I have been trying to mimic Hector Medina's avatar. Shooting a springer off my knee and I am having the hardest time keeping still as to using shooting sticks. To me, IMO, sticks are easier but if you look at the score boards in a lot of FT events, a lot of piston shooters in the FT class still have better scores when just using their bodies instead of piston shooters in Hunter class.

I can honestly say that I am an above average piston shooter and I produce good results when using my sticks. But I have been trying, trying and trying to mimic Hector's position in his avatar and for the life of me, I cannot obtain the results as I do w/sticks. I put a thick knee pad on which brings my rifle up to height but I feel like I am always going to fall over. If I try to muscle it, well you know the answer to that. Pulse rate increase which then in turns moves you which moves the rifle. I then try to lean over to obtain my cheek weld and that puts slight pressure on my diaphragm and well you know how that goes.

I want to give up but I am not a quitter so for the guys who shoot FT any pointers/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

cross posted
 
Tri chair and sticks ... tho try shooting SIDEWAYS across your lap. Bipod along side left knee and butt stock on the right thigh as near to kneecap as you can manage. Scope mounted way forward so you can lean in and get a good sight picture NOT having to lean to right so far as too upset stability. * this would still be a legal "HUNTER" position.

Ideally set the LOP so the butt pad rests up against your elbow / upper arms corner. Shooting off hand you can now shoot rifle more bull pup like being sideways to your chest held in tight and left elbow on side of ribs or hip.



** If a lefty ... you know what I'm still sayin.

JMO ....

Scott S
 
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Hi Josh,

I think the real truth is that we don't know how we do it, we just do it. First of all we are all built differently and I happen to know that Hector is built differently than you so copying his position exactly may not be practical. Position shooting is a lot like standing at home plate batting. You can look at all the pictures and read all the books and listen to all the coaches and you will learn the BASICS. Then watch a baseball game or a shooter and you will see all different stances and positions that are based loosely on the basic position but are NOT the same! You just have to develop your own best position by experimenting and trying different things working on your own technique using a starting point of what known good shooters do. It's frustrating and takes time but we all have to do what works for us individually.

Incidently I have been trying to shoot smallbore prone for the last couple of years and I have the same issue you have. It's like most shooting; looks soo easy but is difficult. I have good equipment and ammo but I am constantly working on technique and position and it is frustrating. But still fun!

Sometimes things are frustrating but working through the issues can actually be part of the fun of it all. Keep trying. Good luck.

Rick B.


 
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I'm not good at it, but shoot FT with my springers pretty often. I shoot Hunter class, but can't shoot for beans off of sticks. 

The only piece of advice I feel that I can offer, is don't try to shoot like Hector. That's what's best for HIM, so that's how he shoots. Find what works for YOU. 

I basically just wad up in a ball on the ground, resting the gun on a small rear bench bag, with my right knee tucked inside my right elbow, and the butt held steady between my chest and thigh. I can hold very steady this way. With a hamster or kneepad it would likely be even better. But I like the softness and how the gun sinks in to the little bag. 

This is the only pic I have of myself, luckily my buddy Danny snapped it at some point lol. Excuse the PCP, just pretend it's my 77K 😁

Oh and if you don't tuck your britches legs into your socks, that might be your problem. Everybody knows it's the key to accuracy! Or not getting ticks, I get it mixed up........

1598484080_20255027485f46ee705e3846.66526339.jpg

 
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My wife shot extremely well off her knee with a little pad to protect her knee. She was VERY still. We worked at our positions a long time but I could never relax enough with it on my knee. I wrap my arm around my knee some and shoot over my arm.... maybe facing 75 degrees from the target. I've seen a few do this general style and if you check out WFTF, you'll see a good number shooting over their arm. For me, it's the most still, and very versatile. Most use shooting jackets for additional support.

What it came down to was finding our own most comfortable position and our structure was different , so our positions were different .

Bob
 
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I never tried to emulate anyone else's position when I got into FT. Rather, I let my body do the talking, that talking heavily emphasizing COMFORTABLE and NATURAL. It worked! I'm often complimented with "you make it look so easy".

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1598504044_17788723125f473c6cf3acf8.64480181.jpg


Top 5 are National Champion, the rest are State(s) Champion.
Click to expand...

Do you feel that it's kinda different for the springer shooters? Since most times they liked to be held a certain way?
 
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Josh,

Here is a thread on the same subject on another forum. Look at Tyler Patner's post with pictures at two different types of sitting positions on the first page half way down.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=116015.0

As said before, try different variations until you find what works best for you. A higher fore stock or adding a hamster or using a thicker knee pad to rest the rifle on your knee will help. For comfort to have a more upright neck position, a lot of WFTF shooters use a very high scope mount droop compensated (angled downward) riser to raise the scope and also shorten the gap between 45-55 yard marks. A stiff shooting jacket helps as well but not necessary if you are just starting out.

Hope this helps,

Leo
 
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It's pretty much all been said here, but IMHO the most important is finding the position that allows your particular body type to relax and be comfortable while the rifle is pointing at the target. 

Last year I shot two days with world champion Jack Harris at the PA Cup. I studied his position carefully and it is what I would consider perfect: spread out like a tripod with a low wide base, gun resting on hand on the side of left knee (hard to describe but provides both horizontal and vertical support). I wasted no time trying the position... easy enough to replicate but the problem is that my gun is pointing at the ground about an inch above my big toe, LOL. With my shorter legs and longer torso I'd need about a foot long knee riser, defeating the whole purpose. So after much experimentation I shoot in a ball more like Ron and Chase above instead of spreading out, it works pretty well for *me*. 

BTW, Jack cleaned the course Sunday and won the Cup. 

Danny
 
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One thing I've done to strengthen the support muscles around my hips and knees is isometric exercises. With a large rubber band attached to a post and my ankle I pull forward, back, in then out. This has beefed up my hip flexor, lower back muscles and other support muscles. I no longer get the cramps and spasms from shooting seated. Also a heavy hiking regiment that I need to get back to. 

While this helps, and as others have said, find a comfortable position for yourself and get used to being in it. When I started shooting off the knee I'd watch TV in my prefered position untill unbearable. Then repeat. 
 
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"Do you feel that it's kinda different for the springer shooters? Since most times they liked to be held a certain way?"

You just had to open that can of worms, Josh? 😉 I'm trying to reform my natural (Texan) propensity to communicate in loooong, anecdotal stories... then you go there!

"Most times they like to be held a certain way", and tuned a certain way, or de-tuned a certain way, and maintained a certain way, and coddled a certain way, and temperature-equalized a certain way, and about the time things start looking promising... she goes haywire!

Though I've owned, loved, and hated springers for over a half-century, and am inarguably the world's most hopeless airgun addict, I don't consider springers a proper tool for competition(s). 😱 Maybe I should qualify that statement before everyone freaks completely out. I don't consider springers a proper tool for competition(s)... in human hands! 

As further qualification of my provocative springer comment(s), be aware I prefer light carbines; and light spring-piston carbines are certainly not proper FT tools. By the time a springer approaches FT viability, it has outgrown my tolerance levels for weight, mass, and gadgetry.

To paraphrase, I think field target is some of the best airgun fun possible (short of naked field target with buxom red-head contortionist nymphos)... but not with springers! However I (often) confess I'm a throw-back Neanderthal from hell. Which brings us to this-

All that said, the fact that some guys like Brad Troyer can consistently post springer FT scores that embarrass all but the finest PCP shooters in any and all classes, and sometimes even them, only proves my contention there are ALIENS walking this planet! 👽
 
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airngasman, you and i both can go on and on about springers. i like pcp's but i love springers and hate'm at the same time. I like and hate going through the process of finding what she does and does not like but what i do love...what I tuly love is besting a pcp shooters score. to me I don't and don't want to get all crazy weights with extensive gadgetry and/or outlandish style stocks. I don't knock no one who chooses that route but it ain't my cup of tea.
 
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Again thanks to EVERYONE who took their time, offered their advice and posted great feedback. but i have another question.



Can I raise the height of my knee pad with anything? Can it be whatever height or is there a limit? Lastly I believe that I have found a position that I am comfortable in and for can be in it for three hours minus 5min breaks every 30min. I put 3 PA black plastic things that they ship the tins in. I put them underneath the Husky knee pad on my left knee. Its weird but feels good and what i'm talking about is laying my right leg on the ground stretched out. I didn't know if thats allowed or not. Also no matter what, it seems that the springer has to be placed near or right on by the trigger guard. Good for repeatability but what if your springer doesn't like to be held/placed there? Are you SOL? 



cross posted
 
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