How important is perfect level your scope to your gun?

[elh0102]

There has been a terrific amount of time spent on this topic. From an academic perspective, most of the suggestions have merit. From a practical perspective, I'll offer a bit different response. The importance of scope alignment is in direct relation to the size and distance of target. I'll suggest the following exercise. Next time at the range, set up your rifle with an intentional amount of cant. Not extreme, just enough to simulate a reasonable error in alignment. I believe that you will find, it is something on which it isn't worth spending a lot of time. If not, your need for precision is much greater than mine.

 

[Sawney Bean]

The biggest factor that people don’t account for is how they hold their guns. Most of us don’t naturally hold our rifles perfectly level when we shoulder them and often you’ll find people that think their reticles aren’t level when they actually are. They’re just holding their rifles a few degrees off.

If that’s you, then what you need to do is either learn to hold your rifle level or set your reticle to match the amount of cant you have when you shoulder your rifle in the manner that seems natural to you. If you do this though it will offset your scope a few hundredths of an inch from the bore.

The higher your scope is above the bore the more the cant will affect your accuracy.

 

[SpreadLead]

$20 can take any question out of the equation.

 

[elh0102]

The biggest factor that people don’t account for is how they hold their guns. Most of us don’t naturally hold our rifles perfectly level when we shoulder them and often you’ll find people that think their reticles aren’t level when they actually are. They’re just holding their rifles a few degrees off.

If that’s you, then what you need to do is either learn to hold your rifle level or set your reticle to match the amount of cant you have when you shoulder your rifle in the manner that seems natural to you. If you do this though it will offset your scope a few hundredths of an inch from the bore.

The higher your scope is above the bore the more the cant will affect your accuracy.

To your point, I think that service rifle shooters can teach us a lot. Most of their competition is with iron sights, even at 600 yards! As with all precision accuracy, consistency is king. Sight alignment, whether iron or optics, is only important as it relates to consistency. Many of these champion position shooters could exchange rifles and see very different results. They are consistent with each shot, which includes the rifle setup. It matters not how the sights or scope are adjusted, as long as the shooter's sight picture and shot release is the same every time. Most of us mere mortals cannot achieve this consistency, but that should be our goal. Set the rifle up as you please, then practice. This is just my opinion, and my wife says I'm always wrong.

 

[RickH]

Having competed out to 1000 yards the scope being mounted perfectly was critical to hitting the target and that hasn’t changed for me. If it isn’t right there’s no need to bother wasting whatever ammo you are shooting. That’s just me.

Rick H.

 

[SpreadLead]

Many people spend thousands of dollars to eliminate variables, so the question is why wouldn't you eliminate one for pennies. 90% of the time the "problem" is the equipment. Not the shooter. We all know that's not true, right?

 

[OutdoorEDventure]

Pellet gun ranges “no.”

 

[Bedrock Bob]

If placing every shot precisely is the objective then every little alignment error matters. Scope to bore alignment and cant are certainly things you should consider.

If your scope is mounted over the bore with your vertical crosshair plumb a level is redundant. A shooter should be able to plumb up the vertical crosshair well enough if he puts that in his sighting routine.

With a pellet gun shooting outside you generally have some wind error. If your gun is shooting a little one way or the other at range we just account for it. We often shoot zeroed a little right or left anyway. Unless you are shooting for numbers or in a match what difference does it make? If you toss one into the corn you just give it more (or less) windage (or elevation) on the next shot.

I'm not diminishing the importance of scope alignment or holding the gun plumb. But if you are careful mounting the scope and mind the vertical crosshair when you sight it's just never going to be an issue for MOST pellet gun shooters.

If your rifle is zeroed at 25 and shoots an inch right at 50 because your crosshairs are on sideways that's a problem. But if you mount the scope carefully and plumb the crosshair when you get your sight picture it never will be a problem. At least not one that most shooters will notice.

If I miss a shot at range I'm focused on my correction and not a bubble level. It's more about wind drift than anything else. Granted a little cant makes wind harder to dope. But unless every shot counts its just an exercise in minutia and complicates your sighting routine. Just move over a half inch and jerk the trigger. It's only a pellet.

In real world shooting you just don't use a level. On the bench or in a match maybe some guys may benefit. Even with long range varmint shooting it's not a huge deal. To me it seems to just complicate a process that already works fine.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Pellet gun ranges “no.”

Well, kinda. It's about drop along the crosshair. So if your shooting off the lower end of your crosshair it might. It just depends on how much things drop and how low your impact is below the crosshair divided by how bad your scope is twisted.

On a springer If things are off a little it wouldn't matter much between 25 and 50. At 75 maybe a little. At 100 you could definitely tell if things weren't lined up right.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Even if I used a level it still wouldn't stop canting. I start with a plumb sight picture and often rotate a little counterclockwise during trigger pull. I'm looking at the target in a scope. On my front bead with open sights. If I had a level on my rifle my cant error would occur when I wasn't looking at the level.

I generally torque the gun pulling the trigger or responding to the shot. That's where my can't error comes into play. A gun level is not going to help much. Only good form and practice will do that.

 

[357cal]

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how to use a plum bob to level a rifle scope

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Using a plumb bob to level a rifle scope is a precise method. Here’s a step-by-step guide:

1. Set Up a Solid Foundation: Ensure your rifle is unloaded and securely positioned on a stable surface1.
2. Hang the Plumb Bob: Attach a brightly-colored string to a plumb bob and hang it from a fixed point above the rifle2.
3. Align the Crosshair: Look through the scope and align the crosshair with the plumb bob1.
4. Adjust the Scope: Use the scope’s adjustment knobs to fine-tune the alignment until the crosshair is perfectly level with the plumb bob3.
5. Secure the Alignment: Once aligned, tighten the scope rings to secure the scope in place3.
6. Double-Check: Double-check the alignment to ensure everything is level and the 2nd way is the way i use https://www.amazon.com/Engineering-...on-Gunsmithing-Maintenance/dp/B004TAB7ZO?th=1

 

[PasadenaMike]

I’m simple. I don’t use fancy anything. I trust my eyes to tell me if the scope is correct.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Instead of hanging a plumb bob and using it for a reference you can hang a plumb bob from the bore. It's as easy as the mirror method and the same idea.

A brass welding rod is a simple solution. But a 12" ruler with a hole drilled at 8" to pivot on a cleaning jag works the same. Just stuff the jag in the bore and hang the ruler on the jag. Bring your vertical crosshair parallel to it and your done.

Hold your eye back from the eyepiece a little and you can focus on the ruler. Works perfectly every time and you never have to level the rifle. The plumb bob hanging in the muzzle does that for you when you bring the crosshair to it.

 

[Firewalker]

You all got me giggling with strings and plumb bobs!

If it's getting glass, it's got a base or mounts for a base. A torpedo level is much more accurate than old eyes looking at a fuzzy string.

My gunsmithing scope levels were nice but one drop and they would need to be trued. Modern manufacturing techniques at Empire in the pro line allow repeated dropps without losing true.

Once a base is mounted, you have a true level reference point, put your gun in a mechanical rest and level it front to back and side to side.

Mount your lower ring bases, lightly torque them to 1/2 specs and check the horns for level.

Modern rings are made by CNC machines and should be true.

Lay your scope in the trough, add ring caps and install screws just enough to keep the scope from falling out.

finger tighten the cap screws equal to each other and adjust if moved from level. Use a good hand driver and while watching the level, turn one screw 1/8th turn, do the same on the other side of the cap.

Move to the other cap and repeat.

I'm sure I missed a bunch but scope mounting is easy, no need for hand cranks on cars, no need for plumb bobs.

 

[nervoustrig]

Please bear in mind that any scope mounting strategy which starts with a spirit level to level the gun is making a variety of assumptions about the perfectness of the gun, the scope, and the scope mounts.

The beauty of the mirror method is it singularly sidesteps all of these potential imperfections, and aligns the two things that matter which are the reticle and the bore.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

You all got me giggling with strings and plumb bobs!

If it's getting glass, it's got a base or mounts for a base. A torpedo level is much more accurate than old eyes looking at a fuzzy string.

My gunsmithing scope levels were nice but one drop and they would need to be trued. Modern manufacturing techniques at Empire in the pro line allow repeated dropps without losing true.

Once a base is mounted, you have a true level reference point, put your gun in a mechanical rest and level it front to back and side to side.

Mount your lower ring bases, lightly torque them to 1/2 specs and check the horns for level.

Modern rings are made by CNC machines and should be true.

Lay your scope in the trough, add ring caps and install screws just enough to keep the scope from falling out.

finger tighten the cap screws equal to each other and adjust if moved from level. Use a good hand driver and while watching the level, turn one screw 1/8th turn, do the same on the other side of the cap.

Move to the other cap and repeat.

I'm sure I missed a bunch but scope mounting is easy, no need for hand cranks on cars, no need for plumb bobs.

So you level the rifle but don't plumb the vertical crosshair?

You have me giggling now!

How is leveling the rifle with a torpedo level going to get the crosshair in line with the bore?

The mirror or the plumb bob from the bore are the usual target methods. Leveling the flats of the rifle and setting the vertical with a known plumb line (doorjamb, structural line) is the quick and dirty way.

If you are going to bother to level the rifle it seems only logical to plumb the vertical crosshair too dosent it?

 

[steve123]

I see people attaching bubble levels and whatnot on there guns and scopes trying to get perfect level. How would you know your gun is even level? Since most guns aren't flat on top how would attaching a level on the barrel you know its even level. So when I install my scope. I hold the gun to where it looks straight and level for my eye. Then I loosen the scope rings and rotate the scope till the cross hair is level. I double check that gun is still level and cross hair is also level using only my eyes. No bubble level or any attachment. Am I doing it right or am I doing it the wrong way. When I go to my crosshair is level, that's all that matter or is there more to it than just having crosshair level during shooting.

I used to level everything but I don't anymore and do it like you do because the reticle looks/appears correct and vertical to me. Because when truly leveled the reticle looks canted down counter clockwise which drives me nuts. My friends laugh at me the way my gun looks, LOL, and I laugh with them. Oh well it works for me.

And BTW I've won the last four matches I've shot in division wise, also these were in four different types of airgun shooting, so I'm happy with my unlevel scopes as is. These were in Unlimited FT, PFT Hunter, Silhouette, and UFT.

Will a level scope help improve scores - yes probably some, is it absolutely crucial to hitting stuff most of the time, nope as long as you hold the gun the same way every time you're good.

Controversial absolutely.

 

[steve123]

View attachment 508131

My eyes are pretty straight but my head isn't screwed on right.

 

[Franklink]

I used to level everything but I don't anymore and do it like you do because the reticle looks/appears correct and vertical to me. Because when truly leveled the reticle looks canted down counter clockwise which drives me nuts. My friends laugh at me the way my gun looks, LOL, and I laugh with them. Oh well it works for me.

And BTW I've won the last four matches I've shot in division wise, also these were in four different types of airgun shooting, so I'm happy with my unlevel scopes as is. These were in Unlimited FT, PFT Hunter, Silhouette, and UFT.

Will a level scope help improve scores - yes probably some, is it absolutely crucial to hitting stuff most of the time, nope as long as you hold the gun the same way every time you're good.

Controversial absolutely.

Same exact conclusion Steve.

When I was chasing down the right drift that happens with the .20 slugs at long range I spent a couple weeks remounting the scope and bubble level, multiple times. After MUCH tinkering I got the reticle absolutely vertical/horizontal. I left it that way for a few weeks but eventually couldn't handle how crooked it felt to look through and put it back to how I like it. (With this particular barrel and gun, the long range right drift happens regardless of the scope being "level" or not.).

So I've slowly been removing bubble levels off guns as I pull them out for rotation. Last week I had a gun out for the first time in a few months and realized it still has a bubble level on it. I made a mental note to remove it.

And like you, I've had my share of successes in various airgun matches, without a bubble level. Hold the gun the same, and the rest takes care of itself.

 

[steve123]

Same exact conclusion Steve.

When I was chasing down the right drift that happens with the .20 slugs at long range I spent a couple weeks remounting the scope and bubble level, multiple times. After MUCH tinkering I got the reticle absolutely vertical/horizontal. I left it that way for a few weeks but eventually couldn't handle how crooked it felt to look through and put it back to how I like it. (With this particular barrel and gun, the long range right drift happens regardless of the scope being "level" or not.).

So I've slowly been removing bubble levels off guns as I pull them out for rotation. Last week I had a gun out for the first time in a few months and realized it still has a bubble level on it. I made a mental note to remove it.

And like you, I've had my share of successes in various airgun matches, without a bubble level. Hold the gun the same, and the rest takes care of itself.

I'm glad you came in here and mentioned this. Ha I often feel I'm the only one.

You tend to experiment in a much more disciplined way than I do whereas I tend to shoot from the hip so to say.

Your successes of airgun shooting in Arizona are many indeed and I think you understand technical things better than I do as well which is telling in a way about this subject.