How important is perfect level your scope to your gun?

[Bedrock Bob]

When you get your crosshairs plumb you need a good grip to keep them plumb through a trigger pull.

This takes up a bunch of slack in your grip and centers your hand behind the recoil. It indexes your trigger finger perfectly. You pull straight back on the trigger with no twist. Consequently you have much less cant error and a more controlled trigger release. Especially shooting offhand where ergonomics are so important.

 

[Motorhead]

When you get your crosshairs plumb you need a good grip to keep them plumb through a trigger pull.

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This takes up a bunch of slack in your grip and centers your hand behind the recoil. It indexes your trigger finger perfectly. You pull straight back on the trigger with no twist. Consequently you have much less cant error and a more controlled trigger release. Especially shooting offhand where ergonomics are so important.

What we call and many target based stocks provide ... Is a THUMB UP / Vertical position, that as stated allows pressure to break trigger between the thumb and trigger finger being centered & able to relax the fingers around the grip area

 

[.20calguy]

I see people attaching bubble levels and whatnot on there guns and scopes trying to get perfect level. How would you know your gun is even level? Since most guns aren't flat on top how would attaching a level on the barrel you know its even level. So when I install my scope. I hold the gun to where it looks straight and level for my eye. Then I loosen the scope rings and rotate the scope till the cross hair is level. I double check that gun is still level and cross hair is also level using only my eyes. No bubble level or any attachment. Am I doing it right or am I doing it the wrong way. When I go to my crosshair is level, that's all that matter or is there more to it than just having crosshair level during shooting.

I could have written this post word for word a year ago, but now I have a digital level mounted on my primary shooter.

I shoot long range and when you know your pellet crosses the crosshair spot on, but you're holding 28 moa of holdover, you know that pellet has to fall from that X down to your target a perfect 90 degrees. I am not capable of holding a perfect 90 degrees without help.

To set up, I mounted the Sendit to the scope rail, then set the scope with a plum-Bob out at long range on a windless evening so that the scope and the level agree.

 

[Jaxjax]

Ive wondered about that MDT, Sure better then watching some da.. vile.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

What we call and many target based stocks provide ... Is a THUMB UP / Vertical position, that as stated allows pressure to break trigger between the thumb and trigger finger being centered & able to relax the fingers around the grip area

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For an airgun that's great. For target shooting its great. I use that same technique from a rest with an air rifle that does not fit my hand correctly (none I have do).

Without a point of reference it's about the only way to get good trigger placement on a too small grip. It certainly would sidestep the problem of torquing the gun with your trigger hand to just eliminate that grip all together.

That does not work when swinging a gun in field situations offhand. At least for me. I need both hands on the gun and good control. If you can locate that hand in the same spot every time you get the same pull as locating your thumb in the same spot. You have more control in hunting/defensive/offhand/fast shooting situations. You can't shoot a 30-06 like that on the side of a mountain and that's what I practice for.

I don't think I have any more problem with torque or dragging my hand using the classic grip as long as it fits right and I'm indexing my palm squarely behind the gun. But then I rarely shoot paper or tiny target zones. And I miss a lot (not very far but I miss). So thumbs up might be a better way to get precision. I'm more focused on rapid offhand accuracy and consistency.

I don't tape globs of clay to my HW95n. It's too pretty. And I get better results on paper with thumbs up and no hand contact. But I much prefer pulling against the web of my hand behind the center of the rifle in practical situations and while practicing practical situations. I'm sure if I were shooting competition air rifles I'd quickly learn differently.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

I could have written this post word for word a year ago, but now I have a digital level mounted on my primary shooter.
View attachment 509058

I shoot long range and when you know your pellet crosses the crosshair spot on, but you're holding 28 moa of holdover, you know that pellet has to fall from that X down to your target a perfect 90 degrees. I am not capable of holding a perfect 90 degrees without help.

To set up, I mounted the Sendit to the scope rail, then set the scope with a plum-Bob out at long range on a windless evening so that the scope and the level agree.

That's pretty cool!

That would work great on a distant light. If the gun is held solid in a rest, leveled and crosshairs on a light on the horizon you can crank the elevation up and down to the limits and see any error. The problem is getting a perfect level. With that doohickey you could level things perfectly.

On my 97 I assumed the edges of the loading port cutout was a good enough reference surface for a crappy torpedo level. It's been good out to 100 yards but is often a little right or left. Very difficult to tell if it's wind or a little cant. Unless you compare the error below the crosshair to the theoretical error above the crosshair I'm not sure how you could tell.

 

[.20calguy]

That's pretty cool!

That would work great on a distant light. If the gun is held solid in a rest, leveled and crosshairs on a light on the horizon you can crank the elevation up and down to the limits and see any error. The problem is getting a perfect level. With that doohickey you could level things perfectly.

On my 97 I assumed the edges of the loading port cutout was a good enough reference surface for a crappy torpedo level. It's been good out to 100 yards but is often a little right or left. Very difficult to tell if it's wind or a little cant. Unless you compare the error below the crosshair to the theoretical error above the crosshair I'm not sure how you could tell.

I still fight it. Sometimes I line up, look over and already have a green light. Othertimes I can hardly beg barrow or steal a green light. There's the obvious reason I needed it.

 

[.20calguy]

Ive wondered about that MDT, Sure better then watching some da.. vile.

My eyes aren't that great anymore and I can't see a bubble level with any accuracy. It won't be long and you'll be seeing this concept inside your scopes.

 

[Revoman]

.20calguy​

"It won't be long and you'll be seeing this concept inside your scopes."
I have seen at least one manufacturer (Leupold and Sig Sauer for instance) that have in internal level, been out for at least a year, likely more. Cost alot though!

mike

 

[coastal drifter]

.20calguy​

"It won't be long and you'll be seeing this concept inside your scopes."
I have seen at least one manufacturer (Leupold and Sig Sauer for instance) that have in internal level, been out for at least a year, likely more. Cost alot though!

mike

the digital scopes have it like the Zulus

 

[.20calguy]

.20calguy​

"It won't be long and you'll be seeing this concept inside your scopes."
I have seen at least one manufacturer (Leupold and Sig Sauer for instance) that have in internal level, been out for at least a year, likely more. Cost alot though!

mike

Yes I have too, but I think it will be more prevalent down the road. Element has it some of their scopes. I've also seen remote lights in the ocular lens cap.
At the moment the be$t solution i$ the Sendit unit.

 

[Revoman]

^^^^ Agreed. It's actually very likely that the SendIt unit is less expensive than the 'extra' scope charge to get it internally.

mike

 

[.20calguy]

Any gun with a milled receiver will index off of the top, the rail then is attached or milled from the top giving a fantastic reference for a level and scope mount.

Cant does affect shots a lot more than most understand. I attached a guide that is pretty radical but you get the point.

"Are levels important?"

Indeed, they are.


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The only problem I see here is the lack of an explanation of ranges. If their meaning is that close shots are to the edge of the flattest part of the trajectory then I could make a bit more sense of it.
In actuality the apex of the trajectory should not be on the scope X, but pretty well above it, so that a right cant (with a perfectly aligned scope) hits right, and vice versa. The projectile generaly rises pretty well above the point of aim, and falls down to target. That is why cant is so relevant.

 

[.20calguy]

Pellet gun ranges “no.”

I disagree, pelet gun "absolutely"

We are different in our uses, so there's no one rule that fits all.
I enjoy finding a high-performance air gun then taking it to edge of it range ability. For example a 10 meter target pistol at 30 yards. That will give a long range experience using only 30 yards.
A long range experience means that your pellet is going to go quite a bit above your line of sight and fall down to your target which means the gun has to be level.

 

[.20calguy]

I'm certainly not the most knowledgeable person on this site not even close for that matter but... ask any good carpenter how perfect bubble levels are and the shorter the level the less precise

Agreed, I would be less accurate than most I can't see them unless out in the bright sun. (Rifle mounted levels anyway.)
When I'm looking for accuacy I use an incidence meter.

 

[Ta-Ta Toothie]

Has anyone used a quality digital angle gauge for setup or for reference.

 

[Motorhead]

Has anyone used a quality digital angle gauge for setup or for reference.

Don't over think it .... vertical leg of scope retical falls threw bore center line & Then same retical is viewed looking at a plumb line placing it in line to it and bubble level then adjusted to read level. That simple

 

[Revoman]

^^^^^ YEP!

 

[RossK]

With rifle cradle or gun vice to keep your iron secure, a magnetic protractor will find your 0 degree level.