How much Foot Pounds Of Energy (FPE) do you need video?

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Accuracy/precision Trumps everything else. PERIOD!

Although rare shots for me, I have taken 3 tree rats at ~75-80 yards with a .177 shooting at ~750fps for ~12-13fpe and they were all DRT. But I practiced that shot for weeks before I actually tried it on a live tree rat.

Confidence in the airgun and confidence in my ability to place that pellet precisely was the key for me to take those shots in the first place.

Great video!
 
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BackStop said:
Accuracy/precision Trumps everything else. PERIOD!

Although rare shots for me, I have taken 3 tree rats at ~75-80 yards with a .177 shooting at ~750fps for ~12-13fpe and they were all DRT. But I practiced that shot for weeks before I actually tried it on a live tree rat.

Confidence in the airgun and confidence in my ability to place that pellet precisely was the key for me to take those shots in the first place.

Great video!
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Wow I was curious if I .177 could dump a squirrel at that range. Rabbits, are easier than squirrels but good to know you can get the job done ! Fine shooting also by the way..... Thanks for watching....
 
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jaydog said:
Wow I was curious if I .177 could dump a squirrel at that range. Rabbits, are easier than squirrels but good to know you can get the job done ! Fine shooting also by the way..... Thanks for watching....
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As the realty agents will say... Location, location, location!

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement!

Although there was some luck involved, I did practice shooting pears and actually blades of grass before I made my first tree rat kill at that range. After the first one, I was sure it was just luck.

Then, a couple of days later, I made 2 more tree rat kills at the same range. So... yes, luck played a large part, but preparation at that range did make the difference for even trying the shot at a live animal.

I haven't had another chance for a shot at that range. If you are interested, see my threads by clicking on my name/moniker. If you don't, no problem! (smile)

Thanks again for the video! I think we may be kindred spirits! (chuckle)

p.s.

I feed the cottontails here... so I don't know if they are easier to kill. After I had to put down my last cat, these cottontails, doves, robins and woodpeckers are my pets. (smile)

I'll try to take some pics the next time I think about it. But don't expect too much from my little flip-phone camera. (smile)

Yes, I am not a rich man.
 
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Why not power AND accuracy? With today's airguns and ammo power AND accuracy is rather the norm now. My impact has over 30FPE at 300 yards and can hit 1 inch spinner at 100 yards with ease. Your maverick can do the same!

However, amount of power needed to get a good full pass through is far lower than most think and all you need is a full vital pass through for a clean and humane kill. For a squirrel all you need is about 7 FPE on impact to ensure full vital passthrough.
 
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qball said:
Why not power AND accuracy? With today's airguns and ammo power AND accuracy is rather the norm now. My impact has over 30FPE at 300 yards and can hit 1 inch spinner at 100 yards with ease. Your maverick can do the same!

However, amount of power needed to get a good full pass through is far lower than most think and all you need is a full vital pass through for a clean and humane kill. For a squirrel all you need is about 7 FPE to ensure full vital passthrough.
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You don't need a pass through at all for a clean kill. Just as in SD weapons, it is shot placement and keeping the energy of the projectile IN the target. Pass through means you either didn't hit the correct spot for your fpe or you have more fpe than you need. Yeah, I have heard/read about 2 bleeding wounds, but if you shoot with the intention of your quarry to bleed out, then it WILL run a LONG way before expiring!

For several years I was taking tree rats, chipmunks, etc with CPUM .177 pellets. Accuracy/precision of shot placement was ALWAYS the key. Sure, there was some pass through given the short ranges that I pest in my backyard. However, the majority of the clean kills I had on tree rats, I had a hard time even finding the entry wound, and there was NO apparent exit wound. To an extent, the same with the chippers. When I placed the shot well, it was hard to find the entry wound and there was STILL no obvious exit wound.

I was going for heart shots no matter the angle and I still try for that today. My "trifecta" is a head and heart shot with one pellet, which I have done a few times.

LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION! Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement!

I actually had a lower DRT kill rate when I had an airgun (DAR Gen2 .177) that shot at 920fps, although I did like being able to simply put the crosshairs on a target at ~40 yards without thinking about holdover. But, I had to make more follow-up kill shots with my P17 or the Fortitude when using that gun than I ever did before.

Oh well... That is what I have experienced. YMMV (smile)
 
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I prefer pass through on larger animals because if I miss the heart it makes a sucking chest wound and leaves a good blood trail. This is an old argument that gets battled back and forth for years. All I can say for sure is that dumping the energy into the animal does not always work better than a pass through. My experience with it is quite the opposite with heart lung shots. Tissue damage and blood loss kill faster in that regard. That being said dumping all the energy in a head shot creates a knock out effect that really does work well....... Better than a clean pass through the brain? I'd bet sometimes it is. One of my favorite techniques is to use as heavy of a bullet as possible in 25 or 30 cal and push it at 350 to 400 fps and only do headshots. I learned it from the edgun leshiy channel. It has zero pass through and DRT effect every time. All in all though I don't believe dumping energy into an animal works better than a clean pass through. Both work well if you can reach the heart but if I'm hitting lungs I'd rather pierce both and have an exit wound than hit one with a pellet that dumps all its energy in only one. Just my 2 cents. Everyone has a different opinion and I don't mean this as an I know better than you thing.
 
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Raden1943 said:
I prefer pass through on larger animals because if I miss the heart it makes a sucking chest wound and leaves a good blood trail. This is an old argument that gets battled back and forth for years. All I can say for sure is that dumping the energy into the animal does not always work better than a pass through. My experience with it is quite the opposite with heart lung shots. Tissue damage and blood loss kill faster in that regard. That being said dumping all the energy in a head shot creates a knock out effect that really does work well....... Better than a clean pass through the brain? I'd bet sometimes it is. One of my favorite techniques is to use as heavy of a bullet as possible in 25 or 30 cal and push it at 350 to 400 fps and only do headshots. I learned it from the edgun leshiy channel. It has zero pass through and DRT effect every time. All in all though I don't believe dumping energy into an animal works better than a clean pass through. Both work well if you can reach the heart but if I'm hitting lungs I'd rather pierce both and have an exit wound than hit one with a pellet that dumps all its energy in only one. Just my 2 cents. Everyone has a different opinion and I don't mean this as an I know better than you thing.
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Since I haven't hunted larger animals in a long while, I can't counter your claim, but I still say shot placement, shot placement, shot placement is the key to clean, quick kills.

Nothing will change my mind about that. Accuracy/precision makes ALL the difference. If I was hunting for meat to survive, that would be another story.

But, for 99+ percent of hunters today, that is definitely NOT the case. There is no excuse for poorly placed shots IMHO. Yes, everyone misses and everyone has a bad day, but expecting or calling a clean kill one where the animal bleeds out, no matter what the size is just a cop out for lack of accuracy/precision IMHO.

Yeah, I know... I am about to get lambasted by all/most? of the "hunters" for what I just said. But facts are facts. Rationalize it all you want to... (smile)
 
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BackStop said:
Accuracy/precision Trumps everything else. PERIOD!

Although rare shots for me, I have taken 3 tree rats at ~75-80 yards with a .177 shooting at ~750fps for ~12-13fpe and they were all DRT. But I practiced that shot for weeks before I actually tried it on a live tree rat.

Confidence in the airgun and confidence in my ability to place that pellet precisely was the key for me to take those shots in the first place.

Great video!
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If that were true Hunters would be using 22mag to hunt. You need high FPE for large game. Hunter don't hunt mice.
 
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BurntDog said:
If that were true Hunters would be using 22mag to hunt. You need high FPE for large game. Hunter don't hunt mice.
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If WHAT were true? Who claimed hunters should use a smaller caliber than needed for the intended game? Damn!

Do they not actually teach ANYTHING in high school anymore? Like reading comprehension? GEEZ! (sad chuckle/heavy sigh)
 
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BurntDog said:
Someone posted "Accuracy/precision Trumps everything else."
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I did and it is an accurate and precise statement of fact.

If you can't hit your target with accuracy and precision, then you need a LOT more practice!

According to you, there is not even a need to strive for that... (hanging my head and shaking it in my open hand)

Which has NOTHING to do with what you posted:

"If that were true Hunters would be using 22mag to hunt. You need high FPE for large game. Hunter don't hunt mice."

And that had NOTHING to do with what I posted... GEEZ!

Do us all a favor and take a reading comprehension 101 course. (smile)

Oops, just realized that you were probably might be making a political statement... (heavier sigh)
 
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BackStop said:
I did and it is an accurate and precise statement of fact.

If you can't hit your target with accuracy and precision, then you need a LOT more practice!

According to you, there is not even a need to strive for that... (hanging my head and shaking it in my open hand)

Which has NOTHING to do with what you posted:

"If that were true Hunters would be using 22mag to hunt. You need high FPE for large game. Hunter don't hunt mice."

And that had NOTHING to do with what I posted... GEEZ!

Do us all a favor and take a reading comprehension 101 course. (smile)
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I agree with being a good shot but you still need the correct FPE to take large game, I think I misunderstood the whole meaning of this thread.
 
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BurntDog said:
I agree with being a good shot but you still need the correct FPE to take large game, I think I misunderstood the whole meaning of this thread.
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Yes, you did misunderstand the meaning of this entire thread and introduced something that was not even present until you thrust it into the thread. (smile)

Good morning and good luck to you!
 
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About twenty years ago I bought a Wheel Horse lawn and garden tractor that had a blown motor. There was a Wheel Horse dealer near by that I visited for parts. Looking around the showroom I saw some new tractors with the same size deck as mine. My tractor had a 7HP engine on it, the current models were in the vicinity of 18HP. I asked the owner “what changed that I need 18HP now”. He said AMERICANS LOVE POWER. He said a manufacturer will make a slightly more powerful one and then the closest competitor has to one up them and so on and so on. So why would airguns be any different ?
 
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Raden1943 said:
if I miss the heart it makes a sucking chest wound
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Everyone cries shot placement and accuracy but not sure if everyone understand the mechanics or reason behind it.

Brain shot NOT head shot is very self explanatory. I don’t do that anymore because they flip around too much and target is very small plus they don’t stay still most times for a confident brain shot.

However on vital shots I don’t think a lot of people understand why or what makes a good vital shot. The mechanic and reason for a good vita shot is a full pass through which is to create “sucking chest wound”, it creates the condition for instant collapse of lungs and they black out very quickly. Yes, collapsing of both lungs is possible without a full pass through and I’ve done it but they clearly will run around longer compared to a full pass through.

Sure if a big hollow-point expansion hitting it with 50 FPE tore everything up does achieve similar results but energy dump is a bit of myth as the end goal is to collapse both lungs or oxygen depravation and the most efficient/effective way to achieve it is a full pass through. The vital or chest area is just heart and lungs which doesn’t even have much material to “energy dump” on, it’s mostly air! Avid hunters usually knows this well and small animals aren’t any different compared to big animals besides harder to hit.
 
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jaydog said:
Wow I was curious if I .177 could dump a squirrel at that range. Rabbits, are easier than squirrels but good to know you can get the job done ! Fine shooting also by the way..... Thanks for watching....
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Nice video. Rabbits are surprisingly frail creatures. Tenacity is certainly not in their DNA.

Ft-lbs is a handy number for comparing guns of a similar class. It does not transfer well when comparing very dissimilar projectiles. ie. air to powder or even big heavy slow powder (45-70) to light fast powder burners.

I wonder if airgunnings hyper focus of ft-lbs stems from the Crowns mistrust of their subjects and overly stringent limiting of the common people to 12 ft-lbs.
 
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