Something else to consider when making hollow ogive slugs (see a photo of the first stage after forming hollow-ogive cores in post #43) that air gets trapped in the hollow. As a result, when forming the tip, air can get pushed out through the sprue holes in the die. Often times the air is trapped behind a strand of sprue and will send it flying out. You can hear a slight "pop" sound as the air escapes. I see this more on the up stroke. This has happened to me several times which adds more time to the clean up tracking down lead fragments that flew out during swaging. Anyone else experience this? If so, have you come up with measures to prevent the sprue from flying away from the press as opposed to dropping into the primer catch tray? One thing I done that helps is top place the palm of my off hand in front of the front-facing hole in the die to stop the sprue from traveling so far or hitting me in the abdomen. It doesn't hurt, it just kales it tougher to track down all of the fragments on the floor when it's time to clean up.
@Ca_Varminter From my observations, during the hollow-ogive core formIng process a couple of things can happen. Cores can be be formed that are too light. For me this is a definite 0.5 grains less than the target weight. If this occurs from the core being too close to the finished weight when cut (this can result from being the first few cuts when setting the weight on the cutter or being the last cut from a cut strand of wire as opposed to cutting cores directly from the spool) or leaving a core in the hollow-ogive core forming die longer than others on the down stroke, more lead is bled off causing a slightly lighter core. An example would be if a 153 grain core is used to form a 150 slug and after forming the hollow ogive the formed hollow-ogive core is 151 grains or less, then the slug produced will likely be reduced to a 145 grain slug. Reason being, the hollow tip in the point forming die may not be uniform. It may be obviously wider than others because the core was too close to the finished weight. When I notice variance in the appearance of slugs I alter the weight to ensure that all slugs produced are uniform in not only weight, but appearance. When the weight is altered say 3-4 grains, I can hear the air escaping from the hollow in the projectile as I swage it down to the next target weight group. I've done it too fast and had a hollow point pop off of the point forming punch when I grabbed it before having a firm grip on the slug. Pulling it off made a "pop" sound. In the case where the core is heavier, say a 159 grains, this will become a 155 grain slug. Instead of me applying a lot more pressure to make it a 153 grain formed hollow-ogive core from a 159 grain cut core, I will stop applying pressure where I encounter the greatest amount of resistance in the down stroke, which can sometimes be well before the final portion of the cam turning over at the bottom of the stroke. This core will be weighed and set aside to make an different weight slug after the others within the target weight have been completed. In these cases when a new weight is set after the majority of the batch are made, the external punch holder will be adjusted to the new target weight. In this process 3 or 4 grains may be bled off via the point-forming die to achieve the target weight and a fully formed tip. This will require more than slight pressure applied to the ram handle. Existing literature suggests that shaving weight this way should collapse the hollow cavity, but this has not occurred. Also in this process air can be trapped behind the existing sprue within the bleed hole due to air being forced from within the hollow ogive until the tip is fully formed around the point-forming internal punch, as well as more lead will be extruded from the die because of the weight alteration.
I'm not saying this is the correct way, but as a beginner to swaging this is how I've been doing it. For me it's tough reading through the literature and extracting what is relevant to what I'm making as an airgunner from instructions written for centerfire bullet makers using copper jackets. Especially towards the end of a long day which is part of the reason this thread exists. This thread is for people who have not done much swaging, infrequent swaging, but mainly for those that are entirely new to swaging with the Corbin S Press only having read what the manufacturer has published (which is mainly for centerfire bullet makers from what I've encountered). I have yet to use the one-step process. If I am doing something detrimental to my dies, I'd like to get this straight now so that I don't mislead others into damaging their equipment or so that anyone else considering doing things this way can have access to better information before purchasing.
*Addendum to post #48 addressing the effects of trapped air when making hollow-ogive, hollow-point slugs*
I believe that I’ve now spent enough time to determine what is causing the sprue to fly out of the bleed holes in the dies. It is in fact due to the amount of air trapped in the hollow ogive.
When placing a formed core over a point forming internal punch I can either place the core right over the top of the punch close to flush with the face of the die or I can place the corned core over the tip of the internal punch and press down with the pad of my index finger and seat the formed core within the die so that it is better aligned. Either way, air gets trapped between the hollow tip that is formed once engage the ram applying pressure to form the point.
With the air trapped in the ogive I have observed two things that can occur:
1) the air can be forced out of the bleed hole as the ram is engaged and pressure is applied to form (shape/somewhat close) the point of the slug. This causes hiss/slightly squeaky sound towards the top of the ram stroke (handle towards the floor). Around the moment that the cam turns over, a small rush of air can propel the sprue out of the die and into your shirt ultimately landing at your feet (on one side of a doe with two bleed holes). Or on the ram’s way down (the upstroke/ the handle pushed back towards the press) it appears that some sort of vacuum occurs (in not sure that it’s a vacuum) where once the straight wall of the slug clears the bleed hole, air escapes and ejects the sprue with a slight blast of air. It is audible. Finally you may also experience the slug popping off of the point forming die making an audible “pop” or if Mya be stuck on the die/internal punch tip requiring a firm grasp between thumb and insect finger to be wiggled and pulled up, again mailing an audible “pop” sound.
I’ve tried this using a liberal amount of swaging lube and a very conservative layer of film using swage lube. The result are pretty similar. My guess is that this occurrence speaks to the tight machining tolerances of these precision parts (die and punches). I’m not saying that I’m absolutely right in my explanation of why this occurs. However, this has been my observation based upon my experience swaging hollow-ogive, hollow-point slugs with the Corbin S Press.
I spoke with Derek (Corbin sales manager) today and got some things straightened out concerning my above quoted posts. For one, regarding the amount of swage lube to use he advises that we use a minimal amount of swage lube when making airgun slugs. According too Derek, all that's needed is a thin film of lube on your glove or fingers to be re-applied every 20-30 slugs. Use of excessive lube can interfere with the formation of your slug or base by occupying space where the lead should flow. This can cause some strange shooting projectiles. Because I mostly used a flat-base punch he says I got lucky to not have this issue as it is more prevelent with other bases like the boattail base.
In reagrds to sizing down hollow-ogive slugs with the point forming die, I'm told that's a no go just as the literature says and was reiterated by some of you. I'm told that doing so can trash the hollow-ogive point-forming internal punch (etched with the letters "HO"). This can occur by creating pressure from the sides of the pin towards the tip of the punch that he called "side load." Creating a side load can break the hollow-ogive internal point-forming punch pin off of the punch and into your projectile. Why didn't this happen to me? Because I have been using a hollow-point punch which is thicker and strong enough to withstand pressure created to form a hollow-point slug in a single step. So again, I got lucky. Now I understand some of what I have been doing that is out of order or just plain wrong. I wanted to be sure that you all understand what's going on here and don't damage your equipment. Thanks to everyone making meaningful contributions to this thread and helping to address my rookie issues that arise in this thread.
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