Huben bullet swagging kit

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Hi.

Yes, I have talked with them.
Regarding K1:
Thy have made some changes that they say will be the final version of K1. They focused on solving the issues that have been reported so far and the new version (not sure if they will call it v3...?).
They also mentioned that .25 cal should come out this year.

Regarding bullets:
They are aware that the bullets made with swagging kit are not as accurate as the ones they made before in limited quantities. The still plan to offer their pellets and they say they are close to an end product that should be more accurate than their first version (that was already extremely accurate in my tests). According to them, the swagging kit is just something to use while we wait on their pellets.
I have yet to review the swagging kit, the snow is disheartening finally. We had so much snow this year, that we have not seen in years. Here are some pictures of me being too stubborn not to go shooting on my range :)

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f257e2f8cc62abae1e182d7793da00bf.jpg

ee95e603c888b87ab0b9c1c8b1f21659.jpg
 
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There was nothing else to see.
More impotently was the info they gave me, about .25 cal and the modification of the old K1...
In the mods, they have a new regulator seal (plastic) that is now made form y better material and also very important they have new seals for the main valve made of better material...
I will be showing most of those new parts in one of my videos along with their hand pump I received from them.
 
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"Gregor"There was nothing else to see.
More impotently was the info they gave me, about .25 cal and the modification of the old K1...
In the mods, they have a new regulator seal (plastic) that is now made form y better material and also very important they have new seals for the main valve made of better material...
I will be showing most of those new parts in one of my videos along with their hand pump I received from them.
Click to expand...
I've seen that hand pump, some people say that is a very nice pump, for filling any PCP. Thanks for the update
 
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I have heard that some people did this mod, but I am not sure to what extend. It would be quite "easy" to make a single shoot .25, but much harder to make it in a semi auto as you would have to modify / make a new magazine that would have a very thin walls in this case...
BTW: Not sure if this date is realistic, but Huben mentioned that the .25 version K1 should be available by the end of the year.

BR, Gregor
 
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"Gregor"Hi.
Yes, I have talked with them.
Regarding K1:
Thy have made some changes that they say will be the final version of K1. They focused on solving the issues that have been reported so far and the new version (not sure if they will call it v3...?).
They also mentioned that .25 cal should come out this year.
Regarding bullets:
They are aware that the bullets made with swagging kit are not as accurate as the ones they made before in limited quantities. The still plan to offer their pellets and they say they are close to an end product that should be more accurate than their first version (that was already extremely accurate in my tests). According to them, the swagging kit is just something to use while we wait on their pellets.
I have yet to review the swagging kit, the snow is disheartening finally. We had so much snow this year, that we have not seen in years. Here are some pictures of me being too stubborn not to go shooting on my range :)
30629648e4a971b4fcb7482bcaa0096b.jpg

f257e2f8cc62abae1e182d7793da00bf.jpg

ee95e603c888b87ab0b9c1c8b1f21659.jpg
Click to expand...
Hello,

In Holland there already is a V3 available with LW-LR barrel and some other changes. See the link:
https://www.kurversschietsport.nl/index.php/vuurwapens/handvuurwapens/nieuw/huben-k1-detail

Regards,
Wimpy

 
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I bought my first gen 1 K1 from Kurvers Schietsport and they are one of the few distributor that actually understand K1 operation in detail.
They make good mods, and I believe that gen 3 is actually their mod as well and not Huben's.
BTW: The barrel selection came form me. I started to use .22 LR barrel and also advise Huben to do so, that is why they modified version 2 barrel with an airgun barrel with .22 LR twist. I was also the first to offer .22 LR barrel through Rojal and after this, Kurvers Schietsport also started to offer them with an exchange service.
 
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Hi everyone, can someone translate what is on the description of the rifle:

"Dit is inmiddels de derde generatie.

Generatie 1: klepblok met montage-toegang door zijluikje en .22 LW lucht-loop met centreerbaar verjongd kamerdeel en schroefdraad op de monding voor demper/shroudmontage

Generatie 2: klepblok met montage-mogelijkheid vanaf onderzijde en .22 lW luchtloop, met centreerbaar verjongd kamerdeel en schuivend gecentreerd in shroud/demper

Generatie 3: klepblok met montage vanaf onderzijde en .22LW lr-loop, schroefbaar ingesteld aan kamerzijde en schuivend gecentreerd in shroud / demper

Bij de K1's van de derde generatie lijkt een algemeen probleem: de gebruikte O-ringen zijn te hard en niet goed bestand om de grote werkdrukverschillen op te vangen, waardoor er vaak "slow-leaks" optreden.

Kurvers Schietsport voorziet alle uitgaande derde generatie K1's daarom standaard van andere O-ringen van meer geschikte hardheid."
I tried to use google translator but I couldn't get the idea right.

 
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this is from my goggle translator, is this what you saw?

"This is now the third generation.
Generation 1: valve block with mounting-access through side door and .22 LW air-loop with centering rejuvenated chamber part and screw thread on the mouth for damper / shroud mounting
Generation 2: valve block with assembly possibility from the bottom and .22 lW airflow, with centering rejuvenated chamber part and sliding centered in shroud / damper
Generation 3: valve block with mounting from bottom and .22LW lr-loop, screwable on chamber side and sliding centered in shroud / damper
The K1's of the third generation seems to be a general problem: the O-rings used are too hard and not well-resistant to absorb the large differences in pressure, which often results in "slow-leaks".
Kurvers Schietsport therefore supplies all outgoing third-generation K1s with other O-rings of more suitable hardness as standard. "
 
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Hi.
I know some history behind this because I am probably to blame for it :)
I was the one that suggested (and I also used) .22 LR barrel in K1, because it seemed the logical choice for shooting bullets at approx. the same velocity as .22 LR does. The twist of .22 LR is slightly faster than the .22 airgun barrel. After that I had a conversation with Huben where I suggested to us .22 LR barrel with intentions to optimize using slugs in K1 and mentioned that for longer bullets / pellet, it would be good to use faster twist. Huben took the middle ground and used the twist of a .22 LR in the .22 airugn choked barrel.
So that means that the latest barrel is actually .22 airgun barrel with the twist of .22 LR (you can check Lothar Wlather.de page to check the twists and the number of grooves and dimensions). This barrel preforms very well with Huben bullets and also with pellets up to a point. You can check my videos to see where that point is... :)
 
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Few years ago I machined Huben profile barrel from .22 match grade subsonic 1:10 barrel blank. I posted pics somewhere in one of k1 threads. It is sub 2moa using Beasts. 

I’m less familiar with airgun’s but firearms use 1:7 and faster for subsonic ammo . 1:16 is way too weak for subsonic. External ballistics is same for firearms and airgun’s. It needs to be understood that twist by itself does not stabilize bullet. RPM is what produces stability and RPM is product of speed and twist rate. Subsonic speed is not that fast fast.

Everybody is welcome to do your googling/reading on subsonic accuracy and twists. That topic is very well covered outside of air gun community. 

I think you you guys are in search for mysterios super bullet that does not exists :)

Time given my next barrel will will be out of 1:6 blank. I’ll post once I do that.

PS. From general physics - rain drop shape is most optimal for subsonic exterior ballistics, 
 
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Hi Peole.

I remember your post and I wanted to get a faster twist barrel to test this but it is very hard to get barrels in EU. It is possible to get standard versions, that is why I went with regular .22LR that has 1:416 mm twist (1:16.4). The stabilization should work according to calculations (and it does form my tests) after all, 22LR also stabilizes subsonic bullets similar in weight as Huben... Also, Huben bullets are slightly shorter and this slightly works in favour of not having very fast twists... It is true that shapes like boat tail need faster twists and also getting closer to sonic velocity the need of the twist gets extremely high... I am sure you know more about this than I do :). I agree with the values you mentioned above but there I think the focus should be of different topic here:
We (owners of K1) need to find a bullet that will work well K1. The twist of the gun is OK. The barrel is also OK. They have even fixed the forcing cone in V2 (in my opinion it is slightly too large, a forcing cone made the way you mentioned is the best in terms of accuracy).
The bullet that will shoot good in K1 has to handle the transition form the magazine to the barrel (of course it still has to be an appropriate shape in general terms of bullets) This is the only thing we should focus on and this is the only reason why Huben has problems with accuracy. I have tested K1 V1 and V2 with original barrels by putting pellets directly in the barrel (I cut one of the magazines in half...) and the accuracy was sub 1 MoA with all JSB pellets. But as soon as you start to shoot out of the magazine, you get worse accuracy. And this make sense; would you base a firearm for extreme precision on a revolver style of operation? I don't think so... :) Of course I understand why Huben designed it this way and it has a lot of benefits as well. If you pay attention, you will notice that all the "inaccuracy" you get with huben is due to pellets not being stable. That means that the pellet is probably getting out the barrel in correct direction (the test with shooting out of the barrel confirmed this), the problem occurs down the line because of the instability. And this is because the pellets were designed to be placed in the refiling. The fast twist makes matters for pellet even worse in this case as the instability increases down the range faster with fast twists... This is part of the reason why FX always goes with slow twists (pellets are drag stabilized anyway...).

Mowing back to the subject, the appropriate bullet was already made and we know exactly the shape. It is the first "pellet" (bullet) that Huben released. That bullet was accurate despite the fact that it was very poorly made (the weight and dimension consistency was terrible). All we need is that pellet with higher build quality and K1 will be a sub MoA gun shooting at 75 fpe with 0.2 BC...
 
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Gregor, I have watched all the vids on the Huben and am having trouble waiting for the magical, trouble free and super-accurate production model. (either pellets or bullets, I don't care) Do you think it is going to happen any time soon? Is the revolver magazine going to be the limiting problem? Otherwise I will probably have to settle for a FX Monsoon semi-auto.
 
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I understand you... :(
Personally (and I have mentioned this a few times), I never had any reliability issues with it... Huben at IWA mentioned that they put their biggest efforts to release the final most reliable version of K1 this year.
I agree with you regarding pellets / bullets. This is the thing that is making us crazy at the moment. K1 due to its design will always be better with bullets. Till now, there were no good bullets for airguns on the market other than slugs that are basically designed more for firearm and are just made of softer alloy. The good news is that by now, it is proven (at least in my mind) that slugs will work well with virtually all stronger PCPs. We will all benefit form this as we will be able to shoot long range with PCPs that so far were not so effective simply to just too low BC... I can tell you that the movement has already started...:)
Both of these things are at its developing stages right now I would say similar for a comparison as electric cars (the electric cars are probably slightly in the lead...); they are still not that common, they will for sure be "mainstream" in the future but the old technology will probably remain present as well because it was proven with years of experiences to work...
I for example just bought a car recently and I still went with diesel. I wanted an electric but since I am not a car enthusiast, I went with proven technology (and I am an electric engineer... :)) because I am simply looking for getting from point A to point B. I am however an airgun enthusiast so I went with most recent technology... (and I still have some old timers in my collection... lol)
 
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Do you think that if you made the breach block, indexer and magazine to a higher and tighter tolerance, that it would solve or improve the issues? I am a mechanical engineer and own a small, old-school machine shop, but I have friends with good CNC equipment. How about a more positive magazine alignment method for the magazine that takes out the guess work?
I hate to give up on the Huben. The more efficient air management system seems like such a great design, but the forces involved seem to make sealing troublesome. But then standard PCPs all have issues with the seals sooner or later. HPA is a difficult thing to manage. 
I have been looking for a used KI to play with, but they are hard to find. I should not even be talking about it right now; my house burned down before Christmas, along with my FX gun collection, (I'm living in the shop), and I should be concentrating on building a new house and not messing around with buying guns right now, but the evil ground squirrels are coming back with a vengeance and I need to get at least one good gun to get them back under control.
 
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Hi Steeve,
No, it is not an issue in tolerance. K1 is very precisely made gun. It has more to do with versatility that Huben wanted to achieve. If they design the gun for pellets only, there would be no problems. As mentioned before, you cannot have everything in one gun. If you are an engineer that you probably understand that universal "things" and never particularly good one single function (not sure if that is an understandable in English...). But I will say it again: K1 is extremely accurate with appropriate bullets but those bullet are not mass produced yet, but they will bee soon, either by Huben or someone else... I will make sure of that :)
 
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