Hunter Class - new shooter on a budget.

[gfhickman]

New here in the forum, but not a new shooter. I currently own an Air Venturi Avenger in 22 cal. I shoot twice a month in a custom steel match from a bench. It's very enjoyable and challenging. I am however looking for a new event to compete in, hence I've found field target and the hunter class.

I've located a local club (1 of 3 in NC within an hour of me) and contacted the match director about my unique situation. See I am restricted to a wheelchair, as I am a bilateral below knee amputee. We discussed the rules and he directed me to the AAFTA website, which was very helpful.

We discussed a potential first rifle to use to compete, but i would like to hear from others their opinion. Funny enough he suggested looking into the Avenger (177) which i kinda like a i own one and like the way it shoots. Through my research I've learned the 16x restriction and am looking at the UTG Swat 4-16 x 44 AO (use one on my 22 cal currently).

Here is the question: what do you think of my choices? Would you have a different gun or scope to suggest? What accessories would you suggest are needed (bottle, case, and such)? Thanks in advanced and I look forward to becoming apart of the community.

 

[Ranchibi]

Wishing you the best in competitions! Knowing a budget will help folks ponder....Merry Xmas

 

[gfhickman]

Wishing you the best in competitions! Knowing a budget will help folks ponder....Merry Xmas

Well am Avenger / UTG combo is around $550 which will fit for sure. I didn't want to restrict to much but for sake of argument let's stay under $1000. I didn't want to be restrictive on choices and I do know everyone's definition of budget is different.

 

[Sqwirl57]

Put your UTG on your .22 Avenger and set it at 19ftlbs and go shoot a match. See what other people are using and just see how the game is played first. I wouldn't worry so much about the gun. An Avenger will get the job done. I'd put the money into a better scope and ranging wheel first.

 

[gfhickman]

While one can shoot a 22cal set before 20 fpe, it would place me at an immediate disadvantage on smaller kzs. I currently have a side wheel on my UTG and plan to practice ranging with my current rig, don't need my new rig until March or April. If I go to a match there is always a chance to borrow a gun from the club hosting the event.

I'm a researching mind of person. I'll read as much as I can find, discuss a much as I can, hence for my inquiry. Which glass would you suggest? What do you see lacking in the UTG?

 

[Solo1]

How are your eyes? Do you like very fine reticle or slightly larger? Instead of utg i would recommend the athlon line of scopes to have a look at as that line as of this time is my favorite for all around performance and value. If your really trying to save a buck try to sell your 22 and buy an avenge x in 177 and get a 22 barrel for it that way you might have a little extra for a scope! Don’t know how you are with tools but your going to need a place to carry your gun perhaps something attached to your chair? Something to think about

 

[gfhickman]

I have no issue with my UTG at the moment, easy enough to read, dials in readily and focuses consistently. I like the idea of getting an Avenge-X but I wouldn't want to get rid of my current rifle. There will be weeks where I'll have matches back to back and wouldn't feel confident changing calibers without a day to chronograph my tune before competition. I still might seriously consider the Avenge-x over an Avenger for my hunter rifle though. Carrying my firearm, I own a 3d printer and will be working on a "gun rack" of sorts for by chair. I've also considered designing a hitch to pull a wagon, which would allow me to bring a bottle and refreshments as well. Thanks for your input I appreciate it.

 

[scotton]

While one can shoot a 22cal set before 20 fpe, it would place me at an immediate disadvantage on smaller kzs. I currently have a side wheel on my UTG and plan to practice ranging with my current rig, don't need my new rig until March or April. If I go to a match there is always a chance to borrow a gun from the club hosting the event.

I'm a researching mind of person. I'll read as much as I can find, discuss a much as I can, hence for my inquiry. Which glass would you suggest? What do you see lacking in the UTG?

This is long winded but you said you are a researcher-type so I'm going to throw a lot at you.

The difference in pellet diameter between .177 and .22 is 1 mm, or half a mm on each side. When you miss the 1/2 inch kill zones as a rookie, it will be by more than .5mm. The bigger limiting factor for shooting a .22 in FT is the loopy trajectory from heavier and slower pellets combined with the poor ranging for 45+ yard targets at 16x. The main reason why people use .177 pellets for FT is to get a flatter trajectory at longer ranges to make ranging less critical. Once the range part of the equation is figured out, most shooter start using heavier pellets to make wind calls easier.

My recommendation would be to shoot the Avenger with the UTG for a couple of matches to get a feel for things. For practice I would focus on getting pellet on pellet from 20 to 40 yards. Then, get good yardages and dope for 10 to 20 yards, make sure you have range and dope for 10.5 and 11.5 yards. Then work on 40+ yards. Bracketing will be your friend here, so put out a cinder block or draw a line that's 7.6" wide and figure out your brackets at 45, 50 and 55 yards (probably 3 mildots at 16x for 55 yards, almost 4 at 45 yards). The good thing is that all of this practice will serve you well no matter what gun and scope you wind up with.

Then go to a match and see what other people are using. Ask questions. You might even find someone that recently upgraded and wants to sell a perfectly good Marauder or Huntsman.

The things that are going to hold you back on the Avenger are caliber (as you already know) and the weight. Without modification, the Avenger isn't ideal for shooting off of sticks. You need to feel on some other guns to figure out what feels right for you. Getting the balance right is important when shooting off of sticks, and only you will know the right balance for you. Heavier guns are steadier guns, but I've never tried to shoot a gun out of a wheel chair so I may be talking out of my butt a little.

The main thing that will hold you back on the UTG is the reticle (smaller than half mil sub tensions are better for hunter division). A lot of people are going to talk about the glass and the ranging, but most scopes at 16x have decent enough glass and crappy ranging for 45+ yards. If you get good repeatable ranging from 10 yards to 45 yards, that's the best you can hope for without spending real money on a scope. For low to mid tier scopes, the ability to shoot and bracket to .2 mil is more important than glass quality (for me). I'll let others speak to the good mid tier scopes for Hunter division since I don't really fool with Hunter much anymore. Again, you would be well served by looking through different scopes to see what looks good to you. The mid-tier Arkens, Athlons and Ritons are pretty good, should be able to stay around $300-$500 new. The main things I look for are: will it focus down to 10 yards, does the reticle have .2 sub tensions and can I easily attach a humongous sidewheel.

I haven't seen an Avenge X in the wild so I don't know how it would be for FT. I can tell you this: most of the popular youtubers have never seen a bad gun but my experience with some guns I've seen reviewed has been very different than the videos.

Good luck, I hope you have fun whatever you decide to do.

 

[Aimright]

I agree with Sqwirl 57, before you invest in a .177 Avenger, run what you got and get a few meets under your belt. Likely you could try out some of the other club member’s rifles and scopes. Likely you would come away with different ideas and opinion on what rifle/scope FT combo would work best than what the match director suggested.

I shot a .22 Marauder with UTG 4-16x56 scope for about a year when I first started FT (hunter division) and to be honest I didn’t have much problem with the closer small kill zones, even the 3/8 inchers. My problem was more on the longer shots where the combination of my ranging errors and the loopier trajectory of the heavy 15.89 grain pellets were very unforgiving. I tried lighter pellets to flatten the trajectory but my Mrod liked the 15.89s the best. If your .22 Avenger is accurate with lighter pellets you may do just fine with your .22.

Anyway, best of luck to you and I think you will really enjoy the sport.

 

[gfhickman]

This is long winded but you said you are a researcher-type so I'm going to throw a lot at you.

The difference in pellet diameter between .177 and .22 is 1 mm, or half a mm on each side. When you miss the 1/2 inch kill zones as a rookie, it will be by more than .5mm. The bigger limiting factor for shooting a .22 in FT is the loopy trajectory from heavier and slower pellets combined with the poor ranging for 45+ yard targets at 16x. The main reason why people use .177 pellets for FT is to get a flatter trajectory at longer ranges to make ranging less critical. Once the range part of the equation is figured out, most shooter start using heavier pellets to make wind calls easier.

My recommendation would be to shoot the Avenger with the UTG for a couple of matches to get a feel for things. For practice I would focus on getting pellet on pellet from 20 to 40 yards. Then, get good yardages and dope for 10 to 20 yards, make sure you have range and dope for 10.5 and 11.5 yards. Then work on 40+ yards. Bracketing will be your friend here, so put out a cinder block or draw a line that's 7.6" wide and figure out your brackets at 45, 50 and 55 yards (probably 3 mildots at 16x for 55 yards, almost 4 at 45 yards). The good thing is that all of this practice will serve you well no matter what gun and scope you wind up with.

Then go to a match and see what other people are using. Ask questions. You might even find someone that recently upgraded and wants to sell a perfectly good Marauder or Huntsman.

The things that are going to hold you back on the Avenger are caliber (as you already know) and the weight. Without modification, the Avenger isn't ideal for shooting off of sticks. You need to feel on some other guns to figure out what feels right for you. Getting the balance right is important when shooting off of sticks, and only you will know the right balance for you. Heavier guns are steadier guns, but I've never tried to shoot a gun out of a wheel chair so I may be talking out of my butt a little.

The main thing that will hold you back on the UTG is the reticle (smaller than half mil sub tensions are better for hunter division). A lot of people are going to talk about the glass and the ranging, but most scopes at 16x have decent enough glass and crappy ranging for 45+ yards. If you get good repeatable ranging from 10 yards to 45 yards, that's the best you can hope for without spending real money on a scope. For low to mid tier scopes, the ability to shoot and bracket to .2 mil is more important than glass quality (for me). I'll let others speak to the good mid tier scopes for Hunter division since I don't really fool with Hunter much anymore. Again, you would be well served by looking through different scopes to see what looks good to you. The mid-tier Arkens, Athlons and Ritons are pretty good, should be able to stay around $300-$500 new. The main things I look for are: will it focus down to 10 yards, does the reticle have .2 sub tensions and can I easily attach a humongous sidewheel.

I haven't seen an Avenge X in the wild so I don't know how it would be for FT. I can tell you this: most of the popular youtubers have never seen a bad gun but my experience with some guns I've seen reviewed has been very different than the videos.

Good luck, I hope you have fun whatever you decide to do.

Thanks for the data points. I appreciate the reminder that it will be the longer shots that will be an issue because of the lobbing trajectory, I had read that.

Good explanation on what to look for in a scope. I have an Arken SH4 6-24 x 50 on my 22lr RPR and like it very much. Haven't considered an Arken for an airgun, but don't see why not on a PCP rifle.

I'm going to seriously consider contacting the local clubs and look into shooting a loaner rifle. There is a match in January at one of the three that I might just attend to watch, meet people and talk. Maybe someone will have a rifle for sale, you never know.

Where do you look for side wheels for non air rifle targeted optics? Like for an Arken, I haven't seen them?

 

[Pea-shooter O.G.]

I also say shoot what you have. Once you show up and get a feel for the game, you will get a better idea of what might work better for you.
There's aftermarket sidewheel makers like Scopewerks or JD'S custom wheels.

 

[gfhickman]

Thanks for pointing out the aftermarket wheel makers. I'll look into them.

 

[scotton]

I 3D print mine. I'll send you a file that you can modify for size of the parallax knob. I'll get it sent this evening.

 

[gfhickman]

I 3D print mine. I'll send you a file that you can modify for size of the parallax knob. I'll get it sent this evening.

Thanks that would be awesome. I was thinking of working on a magnetic design, heard of this from someone in FT. Makes sense because they are a bitch to pack in a gun case.

 

[beerthief]

What #4 post said and you do not need to buy only a 16 power scope , you can use any power but keep it on 16 power for the match (and practicing).
It is best to have the 16 power marking on the scope .

Best Wishes in your new found endever , Stan in KY .

 

[AirSmithCA]

I've acrually seen FT shooters do quite well with that UTG scope, even some regional championship wins. I used a .22cal Daystate MK3 successfully for a few years with a cheapo Simmons Whitetail, thick wire reticle, 4 big dots, AO adjustment ...lol Despite owning and using higher-mid level glass, my favorite airgun reticle is still on the Hawke Airmax. Has all the tools for the trade in one box, reticle is easy on the brain, and at 16x glass is still very good even though it's not high end and larger 6" sidewheel is affordably available.

 

[Sqwirl57]

I've acrually seen FT shooters do quite well with that UTG scope, even some regional championship wins. I used a .22cal Daystate MK3 successfully for a few years with a cheapo Simmons Whitetail, thick wire reticle, 4 big dots, AO adjustment ...lol Despite owning and using higher-mid level glass, my favorite airgun reticle is still on the Hawke Airmax. Has all the tools for the trade in one box, reticle is easy on the brain, and at 16x glass is still very good even though it's not high end and larger 6" sidewheel is affordably available.

The AMX reticle is one of my favorites too. Very easy to use with plenty of markings without being overly busy

 

[thane]

Shoot what you have for at least 4-6 matches until your scores begin to plateau.
You will have a much better perspective of what needs attention, scope, trigger, accuracy...

...but to answer with product, if I was starting again with a $1000 budget:
Rifle: .177 Akela consistent without a creepy reg and I like pups (site sponsor Pyramd $450).
Scope: with no doubt the new Athlon Heras 15-60x56 SFP MOA can be had for $550-625 comes with big focus wheel. I just did some ranging with one this weekend, super-snappy focus 9.5 to 55yds, downside is 15x on power wheel for HFT, reticle is too fine and not illuminated. This scope can do HFT or Open or WFTF, until your ready to spend well over $1200.

 

[gfhickman]

I agree with Sqwirl 57, before you invest in a .177 Avenger, run what you got and get a few meets under your belt. Likely you could try out some of the other club member’s rifles and scopes. Likely you would come away with different ideas and opinion on what rifle/scope FT combo would work best than what the match director suggested.

I shot a .22 Marauder with UTG 4-16x56 scope for about a year when I first started FT (hunter division) and to be honest I didn’t have much problem with the closer small kill zones, even the 3/8 inchers. My problem was more on the longer shots where the combination of my ranging errors and the loopier trajectory of the heavy 15.89 grain pellets were very unforgiving. I tried lighter pellets to flatten the trajectory but my Mrod liked the 15.89s the best. If your .22 Avenger is accurate with lighter pellets you may do just fine with your .22.

Anyway, best of luck to you and I think you will really enjoy the sport.

I currently have my Avenger 22 shooting H&N Barbuda Match 21.14gr projectiles. I know I'm going to have to try out some lighter stuff and see what I can achieve with that rifle. I am torn that I'll have back to back matches where I'll need to re-tune my rifle from Hunter class FT to bench steel. I doubt I'll be able to be competative with one grain projectile for both disciplines. Thanks for this advice though I'll look what my current firearm is capable of. What is the lightest pellet you think could work for Hunter? I'm seeing pellets in the 10 to 13.7gr neighborhood which would mean tuning between 810 fps (13.7gr) to 950 fps (10gr).

 

[Sqwirl57]

I currently have my Avenger 22 shooting H&N Barbuda Match 21.14gr projectiles. I know I'm going to have to try out some lighter stuff and see what I can achieve with that rifle. I am torn that I'll have back to back matches where I'll need to re-tune my rifle from Hunter class FT to bench steel. I doubt I'll be able to be competative with one grain projectile for both disciplines. Thanks for this advice though I'll look what my current firearm is capable of. What is the lightest pellet you think could work for Hunter? I'm seeing pellets in the 10 to 13.7gr neighborhood which would mean tuning between 810 fps (13.7gr) to 950 fps (10gr).

I'd try either the 13.43s at 820 or the FTT 14.66gr at 780fps.

If you really think you're going to stick with the game maybe look into a Huntsman in .177 through the classifieds or even new. Id still recommend sticking with what you have for now but wanting a new gun is definitely understandable. Those Huntsman are sort of budget friendly and you very likely won't grow out of it soon or have any real issues.