Got the bug for a good springer pistol. Is there any difference between these two other than the labeling? Whichever I choose it looks as though I might have to wait a while.
HW 45 or Beeman P 1
- Thread starter jkingrph
- Start date
I cant tell a difference my HW45 is .177 and my newly acquired Beeman P1 is .20 cal. I think most owners will agree there is a learning when you first start shooting, but when you master the pistol they are deadly accurate.
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Now all I have to do is locate one. None of the dealers seem to have any in stock. I like the looks of those, what are the grips, Pachmyer.
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Agreed. I have one of each, both in .177.
I see no major difference. The HW45's barrel is a "little" better located in the "slide". The hold down strap is centered a little better, the both screws are a little better placed (vertical). The HW45's slide to frame fit is a "little" tighter. Not overly tight, just a better fit. The HW45's barrel has (had) a slightly better crown on the breach side. The HW45's hammer / spring is a LOT tighter. So unlocking the slide is a bight harder than the P1.
I can't say anything about the pellet speeds, no chronograph yet. No difference in accuracy that I can tell.
None of the above adds up to much in the whole of things. Just seems a little more care in the assembly for the HW45.
Mike
I see no major difference. The HW45's barrel is a "little" better located in the "slide". The hold down strap is centered a little better, the both screws are a little better placed (vertical). The HW45's slide to frame fit is a "little" tighter. Not overly tight, just a better fit. The HW45's barrel has (had) a slightly better crown on the breach side. The HW45's hammer / spring is a LOT tighter. So unlocking the slide is a bight harder than the P1.
I can't say anything about the pellet speeds, no chronograph yet. No difference in accuracy that I can tell.
None of the above adds up to much in the whole of things. Just seems a little more care in the assembly for the HW45.
Mike
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Wake up Mike - NOTHING...is "exact"..!
My notes (above) stand as they are. I just double checked my every comment.
Mike
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Wow, a couple of you guys have no clue what the word "detail" means..!
Now, I have no idea WHY, my HW45 has a better fitting batch of parts. Just the luck of the draw, the shop, the person doing the assembly of each gun...but facts are facts. My HW45 is better in detail than my P1.
AND....my HW45 does NOT have the o-ring cutting problem that MANY if not most newer P1's have..! NOW...you experts...give me an excuse for THAT one..! Though an "X" ring mostly alleviates the o-ring cutting problem, fact is, there IS a problem with newer P1's. Has that problem been fixed in the newest models, I do not know.
Mike
Now, I have no idea WHY, my HW45 has a better fitting batch of parts. Just the luck of the draw, the shop, the person doing the assembly of each gun...but facts are facts. My HW45 is better in detail than my P1.
AND....my HW45 does NOT have the o-ring cutting problem that MANY if not most newer P1's have..! NOW...you experts...give me an excuse for THAT one..! Though an "X" ring mostly alleviates the o-ring cutting problem, fact is, there IS a problem with newer P1's. Has that problem been fixed in the newest models, I do not know.
Mike
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Wow some people can't recall the words used, where was the word "detail" even used? EXACTLY THE SAME GUN so go to sleep and try waking up again! Made in the same place on the same machines by the same people! Exactly the same except for the stamp on the side. You mention YOUR results with YOUR guns, I have have a P1 and an HW45 also EXACTLY the same guns with NO PROBLEMS with one over the other! Ask HW if there are any differences or if they are EXACT in EVERY detail except the stamp.
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Issues with the breech seal O ring are thankfully not common with this pistol, but when it happens, i believe it is coming from a tolerance build up…probably effecting P1 and HW45 regardless.
The barrels usually run around +/- .005 of each other. The position of the barrel strap groove probably similar and the clearance of fit for that barrel strap is a good .004. to allow fitting. This means that when the barrel is clamped in place by the factory, it could mean as much as 7 thou difference in tolerance build ups gun to gun. …some closing too tightly against the O ring and others less so.
A good way to over come any tolerance build ups is to reassemble your barrel. A nice way to do this is to loosen the barrel strap fixing slightly so it is barely holding the barrel in place. Then close the gun. Now take a pin punch and tap the barrel up to the O ring with 1/4” pin punch from the muzzle end, open the gun and tighten off the fixing screws. In this way, the barrel is just nudging the O ring but without crushing it. Also a touch of silicone smeared on the O ring will help keep its front face lubricated.
Regardless of 45, or P1 make sure your guide rod is down inside the piston to make the most from the power plant and to improve things further, follow my advice to centralise the mainspring at the muzzle end of the gun with a small reverse end top hat.
The barrels usually run around +/- .005 of each other. The position of the barrel strap groove probably similar and the clearance of fit for that barrel strap is a good .004. to allow fitting. This means that when the barrel is clamped in place by the factory, it could mean as much as 7 thou difference in tolerance build ups gun to gun. …some closing too tightly against the O ring and others less so.
A good way to over come any tolerance build ups is to reassemble your barrel. A nice way to do this is to loosen the barrel strap fixing slightly so it is barely holding the barrel in place. Then close the gun. Now take a pin punch and tap the barrel up to the O ring with 1/4” pin punch from the muzzle end, open the gun and tighten off the fixing screws. In this way, the barrel is just nudging the O ring but without crushing it. Also a touch of silicone smeared on the O ring will help keep its front face lubricated.
Regardless of 45, or P1 make sure your guide rod is down inside the piston to make the most from the power plant and to improve things further, follow my advice to centralise the mainspring at the muzzle end of the gun with a small reverse end top hat.
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How does one go about centralizing the mainspring? Will file the info away, I just called AOA and the next shipment of HW products are comin via ship, the slow way, so was told it could be two to three months. I'm guessing they have to assemble a Viking crew to row the boat across the pond.
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The mainspring is centralised down inside the piston, by both the piston and the guide rod, but at the muzzle end the mainspring is unsupported as the piston moves rearward. To overcome this, we can either employ a small Top hat, or a short piece of tube locating into the mainspring retainer.
Its not essential but improves the consistency of the mainspring movement.
Its not essential but improves the consistency of the mainspring movement.
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What is a "Top hat" in this connotation and where are they sourced. If a piece of tube, what material and specs, length, diameter? Thanks. You can tell I do not know much about this.
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Yes they are Pachmyer. I bought my HW45 @ a airgun show and my Beeman P1 on a forum classified page.
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Ok …at the distal end of the gun (opposite end to the piston seal) we have this component which holds the mainspring in the cylinder under pre load tension. There is a a cross hole which allows the retaining pin to be driven through, fixing it into the end of the cylinder.
The mainspring sits on the face of this component, while the other end is supported at the other end down inside the piston. Its this end that we can improve. A short piece of 1/2 dia plug x 1/2 inch length, polished down in diameter until it slips just inside the mainspring. Drilling through it sideways to allow the fitting of the retaining pin. This will then fix the position of the mainspring at this end of the gun, preventing any sideways movement on firing. Alternatively a small top hat sat in the recess can be used, but then requires the same amount removing from the guide rod inside the piston or it will not fit.
Anything you can fit this end similarly to centre the mainspring will help, but its chasing perfection in consistency terms and mainspring life. You can run without this mod quite happily as Johnny Piston has proven many times over.
This information more for the real enthusiast.
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