27 fpe and 30 shots sounds consistent with my experience with this rifle. I don't see how 37 fpe and 30 shots is feasible with the same cylinder. It's a great rifle, but not a good platform for high power.
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HW100 Thumhole .22 shot count
- Thread starter Gilberca
- Start date
My theory at this point is the higher power rating in part is due to the longer barrel (600mm vs 410mm for the carbine version) The HW100 Carbine FAC version is rated at 35J or about 26 ft lbs.
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I had a chance to zero in the newly mounted scope at 25yds yesterday and was also able to chrono JSB 18.1 and JSB 15.89 .22 pellets.
Here is a sampling of the results:
Created: 08-11-2023 01:22:07 PM
Description: hw100 T. 15.89 jsb
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 15.890
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
14 926 30.26 14.71
13 919 29.80 14.60
12 927 30.32 14.73
11 919 29.80 14.60
10 929 30.46 14.76
9 925 30.19 14.70
8 931 30.59 14.79
7 937 30.98 14.89
6 927 30.32 14.73
5 933 30.72 14.83
4 932 30.65 14.81
3 927 30.32 14.73
2 925 30.19 14.70
1 923 30.06 14.67
Average: 927.14
StdDev: 5.07
Min: 919
Max: 937
Spread: 18
True MV: 927.14
Shots/sec: 0.14
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Created: 08-11-2023 02:14:12 PM
Description: hw100 T 18.1 jsb cleaned barrel
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
14 886 31.61 16.06
13 888 31.75 16.10
12 885 31.54 16.05
11 880 31.18 15.95
10 888 31.75 16.10
9 885 31.54 16.05
8 890 31.89 16.14
7 892 32.04 16.17
6 894 32.18 16.21
5 888 31.75 16.10
4 891 31.96 16.15
3 891 31.96 16.15
2 883 31.39 16.01
1 886 31.61 16.06
Average: 887.64
StdDev: 3.79
Min: 880
Max: 894
Spread: 14
True MV: 887.64
Shots/sec: 0.15
Group Size (IN): 0.00
The chrony results from AOA's testing yielded an average velocity of 847fps for the 18.1 and about 29 ft lbs.
I was able to chrony several groups with both the 18.1 and 15.89 pellets and according to my results, both weights yield similar energies. I plan shooting today at 50 yards to determine which pellet is the more accurate at the longer distances.
From my testing results I'm seeing higher measured velocities than AOA's testing. Figure that's due to different chronographs/environments.
Here is a sampling of the results:
Created: 08-11-2023 01:22:07 PM
Description: hw100 T. 15.89 jsb
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 15.890
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
14 926 30.26 14.71
13 919 29.80 14.60
12 927 30.32 14.73
11 919 29.80 14.60
10 929 30.46 14.76
9 925 30.19 14.70
8 931 30.59 14.79
7 937 30.98 14.89
6 927 30.32 14.73
5 933 30.72 14.83
4 932 30.65 14.81
3 927 30.32 14.73
2 925 30.19 14.70
1 923 30.06 14.67
Average: 927.14
StdDev: 5.07
Min: 919
Max: 937
Spread: 18
True MV: 927.14
Shots/sec: 0.14
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Created: 08-11-2023 02:14:12 PM
Description: hw100 T 18.1 jsb cleaned barrel
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
14 886 31.61 16.06
13 888 31.75 16.10
12 885 31.54 16.05
11 880 31.18 15.95
10 888 31.75 16.10
9 885 31.54 16.05
8 890 31.89 16.14
7 892 32.04 16.17
6 894 32.18 16.21
5 888 31.75 16.10
4 891 31.96 16.15
3 891 31.96 16.15
2 883 31.39 16.01
1 886 31.61 16.06
Average: 887.64
StdDev: 3.79
Min: 880
Max: 894
Spread: 14
True MV: 887.64
Shots/sec: 0.15
Group Size (IN): 0.00
The chrony results from AOA's testing yielded an average velocity of 847fps for the 18.1 and about 29 ft lbs.
I was able to chrony several groups with both the 18.1 and 15.89 pellets and according to my results, both weights yield similar energies. I plan shooting today at 50 yards to determine which pellet is the more accurate at the longer distances.
From my testing results I'm seeing higher measured velocities than AOA's testing. Figure that's due to different chronographs/environments.
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The sweet spot for any projectile (max power vs air efficiency) on a HW100 with a 410mm barrel (falsely labeled a carbine) is 820fps. For a 600mm it's 880fps. Even with all the extra holes drilled for the FAC versions they still have a very small plenum and suck all other needed air per shot straight out of the cylinder. This is not very air efficient and their achilles heel. From factory a FAC HW100 is happiest around 20fpe, thats where they shine. 100bar on the reg is enough to get there.
Changed mine from a 600mm to a 410mm, installed a titanium air cylinder with Huma-Air reg set at 120bar for a 250bar fill, fast flow exhaust valve and a pre-chamber insert in the original regulator housing for improved air efficiency. Got it tuned around 25fpe. Anything higher is just wasting air and not improving accuracy. I get exactly 56 shots or 4 mags at this power level. Could get there with a lower reg pressure and more hammer tension and squeeze an extra mag out of it but the action sounds more violent. Like it this way and enough shots for my needs.
Also polished my barrel and yes, the choke heavily which made for a huge difference. Not pellet fussy and shoots lightweight slugs like a champ out to 100yds, even at slow speeds. Mine loves the 17.5 NSA in .2175, Zan 20gr and H&N 21gr both in .217. Before i polished not so much.
Changed mine from a 600mm to a 410mm, installed a titanium air cylinder with Huma-Air reg set at 120bar for a 250bar fill, fast flow exhaust valve and a pre-chamber insert in the original regulator housing for improved air efficiency. Got it tuned around 25fpe. Anything higher is just wasting air and not improving accuracy. I get exactly 56 shots or 4 mags at this power level. Could get there with a lower reg pressure and more hammer tension and squeeze an extra mag out of it but the action sounds more violent. Like it this way and enough shots for my needs.
Also polished my barrel and yes, the choke heavily which made for a huge difference. Not pellet fussy and shoots lightweight slugs like a champ out to 100yds, even at slow speeds. Mine loves the 17.5 NSA in .2175, Zan 20gr and H&N 21gr both in .217. Before i polished not so much.
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I adjusted HST only slightly and it appears that at least on paper, the 18.1 JSBs are showing the lower Standard deviations on chrony vs the 15.89.
Here are 2 typical results I'm seeing today. I'm happy with being able to shot 2 mags before refilling. could probably eek out a few more shots but not 14 more at this power level. Next up is determining accuracy at 50-60 yards.
Created: 08-12-2023 10:38:20 AM
Description: hw100 t 18.13 jsb
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
28 899 32.54 16.30
27 890 31.89 16.14
26 888 31.75 16.10
25 891 31.96 16.15
24 885 31.54 16.05
23 890 31.89 16.14
22 888 31.75 16.10
21 895 32.25 16.23
20 885 31.54 16.05
19 888 31.75 16.10
18 893 32.11 16.19
17 888 31.75 16.10
16 893 32.11 16.19
15 892 32.04 16.17
14 896 32.32 16.24
13 892 32.04 16.17
12 895 32.25 16.23
11 891 31.96 16.15
10 893 32.11 16.19
9 891 31.96 16.15
8 891 31.96 16.15
7 892 32.04 16.17
6 890 31.89 16.14
5 890 31.89 16.14
4 895 32.25 16.23
3 896 32.32 16.24
2 886 31.61 16.06
1 884 31.46 16.03
Average: 890.96
StdDev: 3.67
Min: 884
Max: 899
Spread: 15
True MV: 890.96
Shots/sec: 0.15
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Created: 08-12-2023 10:12:57 AM
Description: hw100 t 15.89 jsb
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 15.890
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
28 943 31.38 14.98
27 941 31.25 14.95
26 938 31.05 14.90
25 943 31.38 14.98
24 954 32.12 15.16
23 952 31.98 15.13
22 956 32.25 15.19
21 947 31.65 15.05
20 947 31.65 15.05
19 948 31.71 15.06
18 944 31.45 15.00
17 953 32.05 15.14
16 947 31.65 15.05
15 953 32.05 15.14
14 942 31.31 14.97
13 948 31.71 15.06
12 950 31.85 15.10
11 950 31.85 15.10
10 945 31.51 15.02
9 953 32.05 15.14
8 952 31.98 15.13
7 950 31.85 15.10
6 952 31.98 15.13
5 938 31.05 14.90
4 942 31.31 14.97
3 954 32.12 15.16
2 956 32.25 15.19
1 942 31.31 14.97
Average: 947.86
StdDev: 5.34
Min: 938
Max: 956
Spread: 18
True MV: 947.86
Shots/sec: 0.13
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Here are 2 typical results I'm seeing today. I'm happy with being able to shot 2 mags before refilling. could probably eek out a few more shots but not 14 more at this power level. Next up is determining accuracy at 50-60 yards.
Created: 08-12-2023 10:38:20 AM
Description: hw100 t 18.13 jsb
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
28 899 32.54 16.30
27 890 31.89 16.14
26 888 31.75 16.10
25 891 31.96 16.15
24 885 31.54 16.05
23 890 31.89 16.14
22 888 31.75 16.10
21 895 32.25 16.23
20 885 31.54 16.05
19 888 31.75 16.10
18 893 32.11 16.19
17 888 31.75 16.10
16 893 32.11 16.19
15 892 32.04 16.17
14 896 32.32 16.24
13 892 32.04 16.17
12 895 32.25 16.23
11 891 31.96 16.15
10 893 32.11 16.19
9 891 31.96 16.15
8 891 31.96 16.15
7 892 32.04 16.17
6 890 31.89 16.14
5 890 31.89 16.14
4 895 32.25 16.23
3 896 32.32 16.24
2 886 31.61 16.06
1 884 31.46 16.03
Average: 890.96
StdDev: 3.67
Min: 884
Max: 899
Spread: 15
True MV: 890.96
Shots/sec: 0.15
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Created: 08-12-2023 10:12:57 AM
Description: hw100 t 15.89 jsb
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 15.890
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
28 943 31.38 14.98
27 941 31.25 14.95
26 938 31.05 14.90
25 943 31.38 14.98
24 954 32.12 15.16
23 952 31.98 15.13
22 956 32.25 15.19
21 947 31.65 15.05
20 947 31.65 15.05
19 948 31.71 15.06
18 944 31.45 15.00
17 953 32.05 15.14
16 947 31.65 15.05
15 953 32.05 15.14
14 942 31.31 14.97
13 948 31.71 15.06
12 950 31.85 15.10
11 950 31.85 15.10
10 945 31.51 15.02
9 953 32.05 15.14
8 952 31.98 15.13
7 950 31.85 15.10
6 952 31.98 15.13
5 938 31.05 14.90
4 942 31.31 14.97
3 954 32.12 15.16
2 956 32.25 15.19
1 942 31.31 14.97
Average: 947.86
StdDev: 5.34
Min: 938
Max: 956
Spread: 18
True MV: 947.86
Shots/sec: 0.13
Group Size (IN): 0.00
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Nice, yes environment air temp will lead to variations of FPS, Az being 100° + will lead to lower FPS, compared to someplace that is 20° cooler, your spread looks good, how is the accuracy?, I found that mine likes 780 fps for best accuracy with the JSB 18's and the Crosman domes and HP's, I forgot how many shots I get from the standard air cylinder but I think it was at least close to 4 mags worth, with the big Rat works cylinder I get 60 + shots.
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Would slow them down. Not really doing the rifle nor yourself a favor at these speeds. Waisting precious air and it will prove in accuracy testing, more flyers. 820-830 is about as fast as you want for the 410mm and 880 for the full length (regardless of projectile). Also not getting much of a ballistic advantage at these velocties as diabolos slow down drastically when shot over 800fps. Shooting at your current speed vs the recommended speed will pretty much have the same hold for wind and you will only have a retained energy of 2-3fp more at 100m. Personally, i don't think thats worth it and would opt for extra shots and a smoother shot cycle. You'd be surprised how many more shots you'd get when going a tad slower while still being dead accurate.
In the end you do you... i just want to save you some pellets
In the end you do you... i just want to save you some pellets
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Found that the 15.89 JSB pellets were more accurate at 50 yds and virtually no holdover was needed vs the 18.1 JSB pellets. Here is a set of 5 shot groups at 50 yards. I use a folding chair and tripod setup for shooting. After this set, I did adjust windage to re-center POI.
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I'll probably adjust HST to lower velocity for the 15.89 pellets since they seem to be the most accurate for me at the longer distances (50 yds or more). It's easy enough to try and I can set it back if I see a different result. Hoping I don't need to adjust the regulator for this effort however.Would slow them down. Not really doing the rifle nor yourself a favor at these speeds. Waisting precious air and it will prove in accuracy testing, more flyers. 820-830 is about as fast as you want for the 410mm and 880 for the full length (regardless of projectile). Also not getting much of a ballistic advantage at these velocties as diabolos slow down drastically when shot over 800fps. Shooting at your current speed vs the recommended speed will pretty much have the same hold for wind and you will only have a retained energy of 2-3fp more at 100m. Personally, i don't think thats worth it and would opt for extra shots and a smoother shot cycle. You'd be surprised how many more shots you'd get when going a tad slower while still being dead accurate.
In the end you do you... i just want to save you some pellets
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Thats a very smart move! The 18.13s will still shoot great too. Wouldnt worry about the reg. if AOA downtuned should be running at a good pressure for the desired power level. Good luck!
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The JSBs are excellent pellets. If you get a chance try some H&N Barracuda Match, they are very accurate from my HW100. I need to test the Baracuda 18 too.
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So had a chance to lower HST and dropped 15.89 velocities to 880 FPS. cant say accuracy improved with that change. I went back to the JSB 18.1 and once again adjusted HST to 880 FPS with that pellet weight. Chrono results would indicate they should be very accurate since Standard deviation was in the low 3's. Shooting them at 50 yds was a different story altogether. I could not get consistent groups with them. left settings untouched and went to 15.89s and once again those pellets were hitting quarter size groups at 50 yds. From my past experience with springers, usually the lower SD chrono groups resulted in the most accurate pellet choices. Guess you can't solely rely on Chrono results to gauge pellet accuracy. I may invest in some HN field target 21 grain pellets and try them instead. Not sure why the 18s are not playing nice with this rifle.
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Gil - FWIW, when I am having accuracy concerns at 50 yards or less, I set my target at 25 yards to establish a baseline for one hole accuracy. A good PCP like an HW100 should shoot consistently ragged small one hole groups at 25 yards.
A few have correctly mentioned to dial back down your HST to shoot around 820-830 FPS. I would try this at 25 yards and move out to 35, 40 and 50 yards. Measure your groups at each distance.
My HW100 .22 Carbine is very accurate up to 35-40 yards with the 18.1 @ pretty much 760-850 FPS, but slower is better for mine. I can occasionally get 1/2” groups at 50Y, but only sometimes with ever present wind.
You have nothing to loose by slowing down your velocity to see if you can get improved accuracy with your 18.1; arguably one of the best JSB pellets for .22 cal air rifles.
A few have correctly mentioned to dial back down your HST to shoot around 820-830 FPS. I would try this at 25 yards and move out to 35, 40 and 50 yards. Measure your groups at each distance.
My HW100 .22 Carbine is very accurate up to 35-40 yards with the 18.1 @ pretty much 760-850 FPS, but slower is better for mine. I can occasionally get 1/2” groups at 50Y, but only sometimes with ever present wind.
You have nothing to loose by slowing down your velocity to see if you can get improved accuracy with your 18.1; arguably one of the best JSB pellets for .22 cal air rifles.
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Play with the HST until you find the velocity you want, then you can evaluate the tuning balance and adjust the reg accordingly.
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Random question for the group: Does anyone have the FAC rated Regulator pressure for the 50J model PCP? I'm sure it is different from the 35J rated carbines. AOA adjusted mine down when they tweaked the HST and Regulator settings, but I have no idea what it's set to from the factory.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
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I have the 25-28 FPE Carbine and Boris ( Air Venturi Tech ) told me that the Weihrauch tech told him; that my gun was ‘probably’ set set to 120 BAR initially. Not sure, as I am the 2nd owner. Clear as mud, I know.
The good news is that there are many HW100 owners who have had great results here on AGN adjusting their gun’s regulator with their pellet and velocity of choice. So, lots of data to learn/ experiment with here on the forum.
The good news is that there are many HW100 owners who have had great results here on AGN adjusting their gun’s regulator with their pellet and velocity of choice. So, lots of data to learn/ experiment with here on the forum.
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Its likely 150 bar. That’s what my HW110 FAC (600mm barrel) was set at from the factory. I confirmed - see picture. I also bumped it to 155 bar for a bit (pictured) - but it was nor necessary as you should be able to achieve your desired power level by adjusting (increasing) hammer spring preload while maintaining 150bar regulator pressure.
-Ed
-Ed
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So for whatever reason, this HW100 T is not happy with the JSB 18.1 pellets. I put the same pellets in my brother's HW100 Carbine and they were grouping just fine at 50 yds. The velocity of the 18.1s in the carbine is about 820fps whereas mine is at 880 for the JSB 18.1s. I may lower HST to match the carbine and see if accuracy improves. Regardless of the 18.1s, the JSB 15.89s are hitting tight groups at 25, 50 yards. And they are running about 950fps.
I may order some HN 21.14gr pellets to see how they perform.
I may order some HN 21.14gr pellets to see how they perform.
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Gil, there you go. Your brother’s Carbine likes 820 FPS, and “ they ( 18.1’s) were grouping just fine!” Your fall back is your 15.89’s which give you your desired accuracy.
What’s the issue? Either go with the 15.89’s or lower your HST to 820 FPS for the 18’s.
Win/win!,
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