I'm interested in the Vortek PG4 HO kit for my HW30. The website says it can do between 7-9.5 fpe. I'm wanting to aim for about 8.5 fpe but is that over springing the little 30? Thanks
HW30 and Vortek HO?
- Thread starter peaceful_ruler
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I’m dropped in a Vortek PG4 HO kit in my brand new HW30 just a few months ago. I’m getting nearly 700 fps with a 7 grain lead pellet and simple drop in. No polishing. This is just the first dozen or so shots. I am not sure if it will change after break in. This is over 10fpe. I also have another one (R7) that has it kit for a few years. Smooth and accurate.
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Hey peaceful_ruler,
What are U looking for the most ... in the Vortek PG4HO kit?
My tuned HW30S (.177) was tuned using a basic ARH HW30S spring with top-hat made by me. Nothing over-sprung or over-lubed .... after cleaning & waxing the barrel, washing & lubing my JSB 7.33 pellets (bicycle lube/wax), I get 702 fps or 8 FPE doing nothing else. My tune was done 3 years ago so no dieseling or anything unusual. Just a very smooth shot cycle that one would expect out of the HW30S or R7.
I wouldn't go for much more than 8.5 FPE, because your maxing out the platform ... likely ruining its sweet shot cycle.
If you want something with more power -> HW50S
What are U looking for the most ... in the Vortek PG4HO kit?
My tuned HW30S (.177) was tuned using a basic ARH HW30S spring with top-hat made by me. Nothing over-sprung or over-lubed .... after cleaning & waxing the barrel, washing & lubing my JSB 7.33 pellets (bicycle lube/wax), I get 702 fps or 8 FPE doing nothing else. My tune was done 3 years ago so no dieseling or anything unusual. Just a very smooth shot cycle that one would expect out of the HW30S or R7.
I wouldn't go for much more than 8.5 FPE, because your maxing out the platform ... likely ruining its sweet shot cycle.
If you want something with more power -> HW50S
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A Hw30 PG4 in 177 will start around 8.2fpe and settle in around 8 fpe if the gun seals well and doesn't diesel. I've probably done a half dozen of these maybe more. Well over a dozen if you include the PG2 and PG3 kits. They use the same spring. I add half a coil to mine and feel there is no loss if accuracy. I like the shot cycle better. I have Tom make my kits a half coil longer as pointed out and with the trigger end of the spring closed. I'm going to bed now believe it or not. I know it's early new years eve but I drove twelve hours today and just finished dinner. I'll elaborate more in the next day or two when I have time.
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I misread the initial post. I missed the HO part. I thought Tom pulled that kit some time ago. I guess it's back. I installed one in a 22 and 177 Hw30 and I don't think I saw 9 fpe. Tom sent me a spring with an additional coil to meet the claims. At the time the HO kit used a 0.730 OD - 0.118" spring with IIRC 20 coils.
Even with 21 coils I don't think I saw much improvement. The gun only became noticeably harder to cock to the point I thought it was over taxing the linkage parts. I rechecked everything several times and even swapped the kit into a 177 Hw30. Where again it didn't reach ten fpe. I had the 22 apart probably 15 times checking and rechecking everything making sure it wasn't me or the rest of the gun.
I called Tom and he said he got 10 fpe out of his 22 test gun. So he said my barrel must be bad. I argued differently because I didn't see much improvement in the 177 either. He later told me that he tested it in two newer 22 Hw30s and had the same poor results as me. I believed he pulled it from the lineup then. Perhaps he found another combination.
A standard PG4 kit with 21 coil 0.113 wire 0.730" spring will initially net you about 8.5 to 8.3 fpe in either 177 or 22 and settle down to about 8 or a tad more after three or four thousand shots.
My experience with that HO kit is the less than 1 fpe power increase over the standard PG4 kit wasn't worth the increase in cocking effort or wearing out the parts. Again that was then and I don't know if he's changed it since.
Also make sure to radius and polish the cocking arm foot or you may likely cut slivers out of the steel outer guide. That can wreck the compression tube. I've had this issue on about half my steel PG kits across the all the Weihrauch break barrels. I grind radius and polish every cocking shoe or foot when using the PG4 steel kits. It's a pita but the consequences are too great. I much prefer to plastic PG2 kits.
Even with 21 coils I don't think I saw much improvement. The gun only became noticeably harder to cock to the point I thought it was over taxing the linkage parts. I rechecked everything several times and even swapped the kit into a 177 Hw30. Where again it didn't reach ten fpe. I had the 22 apart probably 15 times checking and rechecking everything making sure it wasn't me or the rest of the gun.
I called Tom and he said he got 10 fpe out of his 22 test gun. So he said my barrel must be bad. I argued differently because I didn't see much improvement in the 177 either. He later told me that he tested it in two newer 22 Hw30s and had the same poor results as me. I believed he pulled it from the lineup then. Perhaps he found another combination.
A standard PG4 kit with 21 coil 0.113 wire 0.730" spring will initially net you about 8.5 to 8.3 fpe in either 177 or 22 and settle down to about 8 or a tad more after three or four thousand shots.
My experience with that HO kit is the less than 1 fpe power increase over the standard PG4 kit wasn't worth the increase in cocking effort or wearing out the parts. Again that was then and I don't know if he's changed it since.
Also make sure to radius and polish the cocking arm foot or you may likely cut slivers out of the steel outer guide. That can wreck the compression tube. I've had this issue on about half my steel PG kits across the all the Weihrauch break barrels. I grind radius and polish every cocking shoe or foot when using the PG4 steel kits. It's a pita but the consequences are too great. I much prefer to plastic PG2 kits.
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I installed a HO PG4 kit in my R7. The rifle still shoots rock solid and very smoothly with zero vibration or "twang". Cocking effort is still light and the rifle is one of my favorites. Here are the crono results...
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Power always comes with some movement that usually adversely impacts the shot cycle. Simple physics. IMHO the point of diminishing returns with the R7 comes at about 7.5-8fpe. Beyond that, you experience negative returns to more power.
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If interested the two spreadsheets are for my R7 and HW30s. The HW30s was new with 100 rounds thru it when I put in the Vortek kit (not HO)with their Vac seal.
The R7 had quite a few rounds thru it when I put in an ARH kit with a Vortek Vac seal.
The R7 had quite a few rounds thru it when I put in an ARH kit with a Vortek Vac seal.
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I have the HW30 with the Vortek HO kit installed. The kit gives the rifle a very nice shot cycle and no spring noise. Makes a perfect rifle better.
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I just went to Tom's website and it only list the HO kit for the Hw30. He's flip flopped descriptions on kits before. Advertising up to 9.5 fpe it has to be the 0.118" spring or something different from the 0.113" spring. I'll have to call him and see what gives. He's changed something since I last bought Hw30 kits from him last spring.
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Installed a new Vortek HO kit in a late model HW30 a few months back. Gave it a deep clean and polished and honed all the proper parts. Very nice shooter. Crisp and clean. Haven't shot it through a chronograph since the initial testing when it went back together. As I recall, it was shooting mid 8's fpe? I will run a few tomorrow and report.
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I think the standard kit is the HO, the SHO is the one that did not work as advertised and I do not see it available any longer.
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