That is more than reasonable. I've never actually had the pleasure of shooting one with the finger grooves so maybe I'm really missing out on something that was amazing. Appreciate the feedback!
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HW35 or HW50
- Thread starter Bear-of-Grayling
- Start date
I think many people (myself included) have a difficult time with change. Many have commented negatively on the loss of the finger groove on the new checkered 35. How much the grooves added for consistency with hold placement. Yet the most accurate model 55 only had the grooves on the basic standard model. Most prefer the Match or Tyrolean version which has a checkered forearm. You would think if the grooves add so much they would surely be on the Match and Tyro. ???
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Nice points, but surely the agreeable features of the 55 were its tyrolean cheek piece, which in metering the exact head position for each shot, probably outweighed any feature the 35 had in its finger grooves.
The lock up on the 55 was even better also …
but it lacked some of the 35s oomph and sleeker build for field use…so the 35 usually getting the nod for the farm..
Heck of a gun though, but the semi target stock more the choice of the semi target shooter and probably not showing up any hold issues when in field …like when shooting up into trees..
Maybe im like you and do not like change …sometimes …amen to that…
The lock up on the 55 was even better also …
but it lacked some of the 35s oomph and sleeker build for field use…so the 35 usually getting the nod for the farm..
Heck of a gun though, but the semi target stock more the choice of the semi target shooter and probably not showing up any hold issues when in field …like when shooting up into trees..
Maybe im like you and do not like change …sometimes …amen to that…
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Yeah, I think the new checkering looks fine; still love the Retro-Classic grooves ...
For those feeling it's ruined the gun - come on
.
For those feeling it's ruined the gun - come on
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I did actually inform the sales team at HW that there is a joke on the English circuit that it looks like a condom….
They were not too impressed lol
They were not too impressed lol
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I too have loved the HW 35 since getting my first Beeman catalog lo those many years ago! A beautiful rifle that respects tradition for sure.
The traditional stocks of the 35's older Standard, Luxus, and Export variants are masterpieces that nicely mask the bulk and weight of the action. The fore end wood is as narrow as possible; its bottom surface is rounded; and the finger grooves are located so that their fore-aft center point is very near the balance point of the gun. Brilliant details giving a secure hold that is pleasant to carry and nicely balanced from firing position - from those halcyon pre-chrono days when we valued handling over the Holy FPS!
The traditional stocks of the 35's older Standard, Luxus, and Export variants are masterpieces that nicely mask the bulk and weight of the action. The fore end wood is as narrow as possible; its bottom surface is rounded; and the finger grooves are located so that their fore-aft center point is very near the balance point of the gun. Brilliant details giving a secure hold that is pleasant to carry and nicely balanced from firing position - from those halcyon pre-chrono days when we valued handling over the Holy FPS!
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MDriskill, ..... Boy the 1967 HW35E is making me drool.
Even though I own 3, noticed you can still get a new one from Krale for less than $450 shipped. I almost bought one yesterday; only about $50 more than in 2016. The Euro is down vs. the $$$.
Even though I own 3, noticed you can still get a new one from Krale for less than $450 shipped. I almost bought one yesterday; only about $50 more than in 2016. The Euro is down vs. the $$$.
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Those rounded grip cap variants which were present on many of the early specimens have the perfect sporter stock in my eyes…just like a rimfire…
The Luxus is next level, and early specimens of the export getting into high end safari rifle quality
Nice pair of rifles ….and thanks for sharing them
The Luxus is next level, and early specimens of the export getting into high end safari rifle quality
Nice pair of rifles ….and thanks for sharing them
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I bought this 35E in January from Krale. A little over $400 to the door. Put a vintage diopter on it. Got it in 22 caliber. Hard to find a 22 caliber in the vintage ones. Would jump on a grooved model with the rounded pistol grip in any caliber. I really like the grooved model. They look more European to me. The new checkered version looks more American. I think both are very sharp with their Walnut stocks. IMHO, it is hard to beat the 35E for quality, value and style. They are truly one of the last of the Mohicans.
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The other difference between the 35 and 50. Is the “build quality “. (I wrote this in another post)
The term “build quality” is used quite often especially when Weihrauch airguns are being discussed. But, what does it mean? To someone new to this hobby (obsession) or someone who hasn’t had both Weihrauch models apart, they wouldn’t know.
The “best build quality” Weihrauch puts out is found on models like the 35,77,80,90,97 just name a few. And what differentiates these models from the other “lesser build quality” ones like the 30,50,85,95,98 is the receiver cap, mainly.
The receiver cap on the “better build” is a massive blued solid steel cap that is threaded directly into the receiver. It is actually threaded first into the receiver at an early stage of production then finished with the dovetail and blued with the entire receiver. This cap is made to this exact receiver and cannot be interchanged with another. It is custom made for that specific receiver only. If you look closely at the picture you can just barely see the seam joining the cap to receiver. The seam is just in front of the scope stop hole. Also the blunt end of the cap is solid steel. This massive cap allows the trigger to be installed directly into the receiver for a steady lockup and gives deeper scope or diopter holes in the cap.
The receiver cap on the “lesser build quality” is an internal die cast metal insert, interchangeable and certainly less expensive to manufacture. If you look closely, you can see the castings lines in the end cap at the blunt end and in the bottom of the scope stop holes. It is by no means an inadequate method of construction. It’s just not the “build quality” of the other. It does have the advantage of reducing weight, which is a concern for many.
The last picture is of the locking lever found on the HW35 and HW55. The claim is this lever makes the gun as ridged and accurate as a fixed barrel model. The 35 also comes standard with sling hardware. Because it locks like a fixed barrel there is no worry about the action breaking due to a sling.
The term “build quality” is used quite often especially when Weihrauch airguns are being discussed. But, what does it mean? To someone new to this hobby (obsession) or someone who hasn’t had both Weihrauch models apart, they wouldn’t know.
The “best build quality” Weihrauch puts out is found on models like the 35,77,80,90,97 just name a few. And what differentiates these models from the other “lesser build quality” ones like the 30,50,85,95,98 is the receiver cap, mainly.
The receiver cap on the “better build” is a massive blued solid steel cap that is threaded directly into the receiver. It is actually threaded first into the receiver at an early stage of production then finished with the dovetail and blued with the entire receiver. This cap is made to this exact receiver and cannot be interchanged with another. It is custom made for that specific receiver only. If you look closely at the picture you can just barely see the seam joining the cap to receiver. The seam is just in front of the scope stop hole. Also the blunt end of the cap is solid steel. This massive cap allows the trigger to be installed directly into the receiver for a steady lockup and gives deeper scope or diopter holes in the cap.
The receiver cap on the “lesser build quality” is an internal die cast metal insert, interchangeable and certainly less expensive to manufacture. If you look closely, you can see the castings lines in the end cap at the blunt end and in the bottom of the scope stop holes. It is by no means an inadequate method of construction. It’s just not the “build quality” of the other. It does have the advantage of reducing weight, which is a concern for many.
The last picture is of the locking lever found on the HW35 and HW55. The claim is this lever makes the gun as ridged and accurate as a fixed barrel model. The 35 also comes standard with sling hardware. Because it locks like a fixed barrel there is no worry about the action breaking due to a sling.
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Yup Gray,
You cannot compare the Weihrauch models with "Screw in end-plugs" with later models. Much better machines .... period!
The Best characteristic of "slip in receiver plug" Models is their lighter weight .... and manageability.
You cannot compare the Weihrauch models with "Screw in end-plugs" with later models. Much better machines .... period!
The Best characteristic of "slip in receiver plug" Models is their lighter weight .... and manageability.
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The HW 55 is based on the original HW 50, which (as most of you know I'm sure!) is quite different from the current gun. Today's 50 was introduced as the "HW 99" (and still sold as such in the UK). The action is very similar in size to the original, and it kept the double cocking links, so it "inherited" the name as a historical tribute when the first model ceased production.
The original 50 / 55 family has the same 25mm seal and 30mm outer tube diameter as the HW 30 / R7, but a longer receiver tube, stroke, and barrel. It's the only HW design using the famous threaded rear section on this smaller tube (the HW 35, 77, 80, 97 actions are 5mm bigger in diameter). The old 50's are generally about 700 FPS guns in .177; the 55's OEM target spring makes it closer to 600 FPS, but having the 50's receiver tube this can easily be increased.
The new 50 has a 26mm seal, shorter transfer port, and one-piece receiver tube with the slip-in trigger plug. Still a very nice rifle, and you gotta give full Weihrauch credit for squeezing another 100+ FPS out of the same size action.
The original 50 / 55 family has the same 25mm seal and 30mm outer tube diameter as the HW 30 / R7, but a longer receiver tube, stroke, and barrel. It's the only HW design using the famous threaded rear section on this smaller tube (the HW 35, 77, 80, 97 actions are 5mm bigger in diameter). The old 50's are generally about 700 FPS guns in .177; the 55's OEM target spring makes it closer to 600 FPS, but having the 50's receiver tube this can easily be increased.
The new 50 has a 26mm seal, shorter transfer port, and one-piece receiver tube with the slip-in trigger plug. Still a very nice rifle, and you gotta give full Weihrauch credit for squeezing another 100+ FPS out of the same size action.
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The HW 35, original HW 50, and HW 55 of the late 1960's through 1990's have quite a bit in common. The receiver tubes are the same length (though the 35's is fatter), the two action screws are the same spacing, the cocking links and triggers are the same parts, and the breech blocks are the same basic forging with different detail machining.
Here is how the HW 35's locked breech works. It's a very simple design based on reduced mechanical advantage compared to an auto detent. This shot below compares the 35 and old 50.
Note how the 50's auto breech detent bolt has a fairly small contact surface, angled at roughly 45 degrees. This holds firmly but will pop open with a firm tap on the barrel of course. The 35 has a long latch bar on the side of the breech block, with a much longer contact surface sitting at a much "flatter" angle. It cannot be dislodged by simple pressure on the barrel; you have to pull the thumb latch forward. Its rounded lower surface enables it to close automatically, but as Steveoo mentioned, you also have the option of closing silently by again using your thumb.
Here is how the HW 35's locked breech works. It's a very simple design based on reduced mechanical advantage compared to an auto detent. This shot below compares the 35 and old 50.
Note how the 50's auto breech detent bolt has a fairly small contact surface, angled at roughly 45 degrees. This holds firmly but will pop open with a firm tap on the barrel of course. The 35 has a long latch bar on the side of the breech block, with a much longer contact surface sitting at a much "flatter" angle. It cannot be dislodged by simple pressure on the barrel; you have to pull the thumb latch forward. Its rounded lower surface enables it to close automatically, but as Steveoo mentioned, you also have the option of closing silently by again using your thumb.
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The HW 55's barrel lockup is a rather different and more complex affair. It actually has TWO barrel latches - a small sprung auto bolt in the standing breech face (solely to hold the barrel closed before and after cocking), and the famous rotating bolt (to lock it firmly in place).
In this photo:
A - The rotating lock bolt which is operated by the thumb lever, seen here partially closed. Note serial number stamped on top. When fully open, the flat face you see here is flush with the standing breech face, creating space for the breech block to swing past when cocking. When closed, the bolt's curved bottom surface locks things down
B - Tip of the small automatic sprung latch bolt in the standing breech face
C - The adjustable, pivoting locking bar that the lock bolt engages
D - The auto latch engages this dimple on the rear of the locking bar
E - The lock bolt engages this small curved surface on top of the locking bar
Note the leather breech seal, which the HW 55 kept until late in its production run. The 55's breech block is slightly longer at the rear than the HW 35 or 50, so its fit is very close - the seal protrudes only a few hundredths from its face. You can replace it with the standard HW plastic seal, but it requires some trimming.
In this shot:
F - This big "wagon wheel" screw adjusts the angle of the locking bar. Turning it "out" (counter-clockwise) moves the front of the bar downward, thus pivoting its rear end upward, which tightens the lock
G - The pivot pin for the locking bar
In this photo:
A - The rotating lock bolt which is operated by the thumb lever, seen here partially closed. Note serial number stamped on top. When fully open, the flat face you see here is flush with the standing breech face, creating space for the breech block to swing past when cocking. When closed, the bolt's curved bottom surface locks things down
B - Tip of the small automatic sprung latch bolt in the standing breech face
C - The adjustable, pivoting locking bar that the lock bolt engages
D - The auto latch engages this dimple on the rear of the locking bar
E - The lock bolt engages this small curved surface on top of the locking bar
Note the leather breech seal, which the HW 55 kept until late in its production run. The 55's breech block is slightly longer at the rear than the HW 35 or 50, so its fit is very close - the seal protrudes only a few hundredths from its face. You can replace it with the standard HW plastic seal, but it requires some trimming.
In this shot:
F - This big "wagon wheel" screw adjusts the angle of the locking bar. Turning it "out" (counter-clockwise) moves the front of the bar downward, thus pivoting its rear end upward, which tightens the lock
G - The pivot pin for the locking bar
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Cool info guys, thanks. Bear-of-Grayling that's a beautiful 35E. Couldn't find one in stock when I bought the 95 Luxus I have, but could be one in my future. And now I know what air guns to look for when we hit estate sales. Just put them in my pile with the knives and vintage watches ha ha ha.
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First purchase in 1978 was a Beeman FWB 124 Standard, using all my burger-flipping money. Two years later, added an FWB 124 Deluxe. Hunted with both guns for 10 years or so, gun used a simple ball detent. for barrel locking The 124 was one of the most accurate springer-sporters ever made - still have a scrap box of one-hole groups saved from my youth. The ball detent was easy to close without being too loud. Carried both guns on slings with no issue. Finding HW's barrel latching implementations very interesting and enjoyable to read about, but can't help wonder if the actual utility/importance of it is overestimated. FWB came up with a great solution that was light, repeatable, and enjoyable. Still have both guns, both are still tack drivers except now they have fancy Maccari stocks, and Maccari tune kits with seals that don't crumble in my hands.
Now working on my first HW purchase.... was set on an HW95 Luxus but you guys have me second-guessing if I should switch gears to an HW35E in Walnut. FWB made it so easy- here's your ONE option lol. With HW it's like walking down the cereal aisle! Pretty sure I'm going to end up with 3 or 4 HW's, they all offer something a little bit different and they are so well supported. Thanks for all the education!
View attachment FWB 124 Maccari Stocks Reduced.jpg
Now working on my first HW purchase.... was set on an HW95 Luxus but you guys have me second-guessing if I should switch gears to an HW35E in Walnut. FWB made it so easy- here's your ONE option lol. With HW it's like walking down the cereal aisle! Pretty sure I'm going to end up with 3 or 4 HW's, they all offer something a little bit different and they are so well supported. Thanks for all the education!
View attachment FWB 124 Maccari Stocks Reduced.jpg
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KRALE has the walnut 35E in stock in both calibers if anyone wants to gift me one....
$399 + ~~$50 shipping.
$399 + ~~$50 shipping.
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Jimk you are incorrect in your assumption that the locking feature of the 35 is over stated.
It was actually a number of specimens of the FWB sport which caused quite a bit of swapping out from FWB to HW at that time when they rivalled each other. The FWB detent was always on the edge of things for lock up. If you got a good one you were lucky.
It was a relatively quiet closing gun however, and a superb hunting air rifle no arguments there….but the locking feature on the 35 is a huge bonus and stood the test of time on the gun for eons ….even keeping ancient specimens from that time working well to this day.
It was actually a number of specimens of the FWB sport which caused quite a bit of swapping out from FWB to HW at that time when they rivalled each other. The FWB detent was always on the edge of things for lock up. If you got a good one you were lucky.
It was a relatively quiet closing gun however, and a superb hunting air rifle no arguments there….but the locking feature on the 35 is a huge bonus and stood the test of time on the gun for eons ….even keeping ancient specimens from that time working well to this day.
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Meh, guess we can disagree on the reliability question. The FWB 124 sold many tens of thousands, for good reason. I never knew anyone who had an issue with their barrel detent, and had 3 myself at one point. For me the biggest 124 weak point was the trigger, which is one of the things I'm looking forward to with an HW. I have an FWB 150, FWB 300S, FWB 300U, Anschutz 380, Diana 75 (Beeman 400 actually)... I'm so in love with those triggers! I know the HW's won't be nearly as light, of course, but everyone raves about the Rekord.
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Record trigger is better, but FWB could be made to be very acceptable and better than most.
Weak areas were the rear safety which could break and the detent which had a weaker lock up than most break barrels bit it did make closing it less noisy…
Actually the FWB was my fave air rifle…but it is not a better gun than a 35
Weak areas were the rear safety which could break and the detent which had a weaker lock up than most break barrels bit it did make closing it less noisy…
Actually the FWB was my fave air rifle…but it is not a better gun than a 35
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