HW/Weihrauch Hw80k versions

[ReeceMTunes]

Hi all.

I need a very pressing question answering, which I know my fellow airgunners will have an answer too.

The HW80/HW80k. A staple example of a springer!... But... has the performance changed at all over the years? Is it still the same internally as it was 20 years ago, or has it been dampened down at all. The new HW80k luxus looks cracking. But, I'm unsure whether to go for an earlier model as I want the magic that has given this gun somewhat of an external glory. That said, if the inner workings are the same across all generations, I shall go for the new versions as I do prefer the look.

Please help

 

[Mycapt65]

Internally they're pretty much unchanged. They added a replaceable detent block/stock hanger bracket and an improved cocking shoe in around 2012. All improvements on the earlier design.

 

[Mycapt65]

What caliber are you looking at?

 

[ReeceMTunes]

Internally they're pretty much unchanged. They added a replaceable detent block/stock hanger bracket and an improved cocking shoe in around 2012. All improvements on the earlier design.

So they are all the same displacement, piston size spring size, port size etc irrespective of the year of production? That's good to know then as I wouldn't want to buy anything less than the best version, especially not at that price point.

.22 for the hw80. With the power they produce it will be much more efficient than with the .177 so I am told.

 

[Mycapt65]

So they are all the same displacement, piston size spring size, port size etc irrespective of the year of production? That's good to know then as I wouldn't want to buy anything less than the best version, especially not at that price point.

.22 for the hw80. With the power they produce it will be much more efficient than with the .177 so I am told.

Yup, Internally all the same. 22 would be my pick as well.

 

[A.G.R]

New Hw are much better than older. The new cocking shoe is better as well as the breech chisel detent block that hold the stock now.. it’s hardened ,so you don’t have the welded tabs that bend, strip, and flex. Or worse the detent wears ,your out a tube. Now it’s replacement hardened part. It also has a tension spring on the cocking arm to stop rattle.

The pistons have not changed .. Depending on area , springs vary. Bluing is not as rich , and laser etched printing not stamped.

 

[ReeceMTunes]

New Hw are much better than older. The new cocking shoe is better as well as the breech chisel detent block that hold the stock now.. it’s hardened ,so you don’t have the welded tabs that bend, strip, and flex. Or worse the detent wears ,your out a tube. Now it’s replacement hardened part. It also has a tension spring on the cocking arm to stop rattle.

The pistons have not changed .. Depending on area , springs vary. Bluing is not as rich , and laser etched printing not stamped.But other than cosmeticly(and some slight upgrades) the powerplant

New Hw are much better than older. The new cocking shoe is better as well as the breech chisel detent block that hold the stock now.. it’s hardened ,so you don’t have the welded tabs that bend, strip, and flex. Or worse the detent wears ,your out a tube. Now it’s replacement hardened part. It also has a tension spring on the cocking arm to stop rattle.

The pistons have not changed .. Depending on area , springs vary. Bluing is not as rich , and laser etched printing not stamped.

So am I right in saying that, other than cosmeticly(and some small upgrades) the powerplant is the same across the board?

 

[A.G.R]

So am I right in saying that, other than cosmeticly(and some small upgrades) the powerplant is the same across the board?

Not FAC , to non FAC. IN they come from Hull Cartridge at 12 ft lbs. They are 15 to 17 and can be more if tweaked.

 

[ReeceMTunes]

Now I'm not following. Hw80 is the same gun in UK and US. Only UK version has thinner weaker spring with less preload but this can be easily tuned to the same capacity as the US full power, yes? Are you saying that FAC and sub 12 versions are built completely different, like comparing hw80 to hw99

 

[A.G.R]

Same gun just different springs. I’d check the port. Usually they are 3 mm from factory in FAC.
What are you trying to accomplish FAC , OR NOT

 

[Mycapt65]

Now I'm not following. Hw80 is the same gun in UK and US. Only UK version has thinner weaker spring with less preload but this can be easily tuned to the same capacity as the US full power, yes? Are you saying that FAC and sub 12 versions are built completely different, like comparing hw80 to hw99

British non FAC guns would have to be different to reduce power within legal limits. As would be Canadian. I didn't think it would be necessary to explain that. US market and FAC rifles are relatively unchanged. What changes are done to dumb the rifle down I don't know. Frankly I'm not a big fan of the FAC Hw80. A non FAC Hw80 would be a waste of time.

Also the improvements I mentioned earlier are far more than cosmetics. The newer rifle have lazer etched caliber, model and safety information. That started around 2015. IMO that's cosmetics and a turn for the worse.

The internals did change a little initially they used a steel loose spring guide. Now they use a loose plastic spring guide. That's neither here nor there. Both need to be replaced to reduce twang.

 

[ReeceMTunes]

Same gun just different springs. I’d check the port. Usually they are 3 mm from factory in FAC.
What are you trying to accomplish FAC , OR NOT

Initially it will be run at sub 12 right out the box, as bought in the UK. But once my FAC is granted, I'd like the ability to tune it up to the spec it was built for(17/18ft-lb) with out having to buy a new rifle.

 

[ReeceMTunes]

British non FAC guns would have to be different to reduce power within legal limits. As would be Canadian. I didn't think it would be necessary to explain that. US market and FAC rifles are relatively unchanged. What changes are done to dumb the rifle down I don't know. Frankly I'm not a big fan of the FAC Hw80. A non FAC Hw80 would be a waste of time.

Also the improvements I mentioned earlier are far more than cosmetics. The newer rifle have lazer etched caliber, model and safety information. That started around 2015. IMO that's cosmetics and a turn for the worse.

The internals did change a little initially they used a steel loose spring guide. Now they use a loose plastic spring guide. That's neither here nor there. Both need to be replaced to reduce twang.

It's the part of the question you dont know, which is what I'm trying to ascertain an answer too. But fellow member A.G.R has shed some light on it. Basically they are all bulit to be FAC irrespective, but then dampened down with a weaker spring etc for the UK market. Apposed to being directly engineered for sub 12 such as the hw99s. That's all I'm asking. Many thanks

 

[Mycapt65]

It's the part of the question you dont know, which is what I'm trying to ascertain an answer too. But fellow member A.G.R has shed some light on it. Basically they are all bulit to be FAC irrespective, but then dampened down with a weaker spring etc for the UK market. Apposed to being directly engineered for sub 12 such as the hw99s. That's all I'm asking. Many thanks

I actually i knew that but that wasn't the question asked. You asked if there's anything different between the new and old famous Hw80s. Nothing about FAC and non FAC rifles. I could have answered that in my first reply. English Rifles have a clipped spring. I admit to not knowing how the Canadian models dumb it down to only 500 fps. Some brands have to vent the pistons others enlarge the transfer port. A sub 12 fpe Hw80 isn’t what made the rifle famous. The gun will shoot poorly with simply a spring cut. The 99 is an infinitely better 12lb rifle.

Good luck
Ron

 

[ReeceMTunes]

I actually i knew that but that wasn't the question asked. You asked if there's anything different between the new and old famous Hw80s. Nothing about FAC and non FAC rifles. I could have answered that in my first reply. English Rifles have a clipped spring. I admit to not knowing how the Canadian models dumb it down to only 500 fps. Some brands have to vent the pistons others enlarge the transfer port. A sub 12 fpe Hw80 isn’t what made the rifle famous. The gun will shoot poorly with simply a spring cut. The 99 is an infinitely better 12lb rifle.

Good luck
Ron

Many thanks Ron. Heard so much good about the hw99s for the sub 12 market. A friend of mine has the 99 but im yet to shoot it. I think to summerise, hw80 is built to run at FAC levels, but dampened down with a weaker spring. And will run much more efficiently at FAC levels, including both old and newer models. Is that a fair statement?

Many thanks

 

[Mycapt65]

Many thanks Ron. Heard so much good about the hw99s for the sub 12 market. A friend of mine has the 99 but im yet to shoot it. I think to summerise, hw80 is built to run at FAC levels, but dampened down with a weaker spring. And will run much more efficiently at FAC levels, including both old and newer models. Is that a fair statement?

Many thanks

That's absolutely correct. Its usually the same spring just cut. The spring is usually crudely cut and left open. IMO if you are gettting a FAC license a 22LR is much more practical purchase unless your in a restricted location. If you don't get the license a 12fpe Hw80 is unnecessarily clunky. I'd get a 99 and a 22LR later if allowed. That's just me.

A factory Hw95 is also a nicer gun to shoot than a factory 80 at <12lb levels. That can be boosted later to 15-17 FPE depending on caliber if need be.

 

[EMrider]

I tried configuring (i.e., weaker spring) an R1/hw80 to shoot at the 12fpe level and it was not a successful experiment. Instead of just being harsh, the shot cycle became lazy and harsh. My gun was originally an FAC model for the US market. With every other model of HW or AA spring gun I've owned, tuning down to 12fpe improved both the shot cycle and accuracy. If you are set on an hw80, go .22 and full power. If you want/need a 12fpe or less gun, go hw50s/hw99.
R

 

[Mycapt65]

I tried configuring (i.e., weaker spring) an R1/hw80 to shoot at the 12fpe level and it was not a successful experiment. Instead of just being harsh, the shot cycle became lazy and harsh. My gun was originally an FAC model for the US market. With every other model of HW or AA spring gun I've owned, tuning down to 12fpe improved both the shot cycle and accuracy. If you are set on an hw80, go .22 and full power. If you want/need a 12fpe or less gun, go hw50s/hw99.
R

100% correct especially on the R1/80. The 80 has a big heavy 30mm piston. Driving it slow enough to make 12fpe makes the shot cycle long and unpleasant. Been there done that.

Most people don't know that slowing guns down to reduce the negative effects of recoil on accuracy has a limit. Long dwell times and slower muzzle velocities generally increases hold sensitivity. The opposite of what is desired.

I've run my 177 97 anywhere between 12 and 15 fpe. It's not any more accurate at 12 than 15. However it takes more concentration to do so at 15. It now sits happily around 14 where I like it best.

 

[KWK]

Initially it will be run at sub 12 right out the box, as bought in the UK. But once my FAC is granted, I'd like the ability to tune it up to the spec it was built for(17/18ft-lb) with out having to buy a new rifle.

You might want to check your regulations first. I'm not sure that's so simple in UK. Seems like anything firearms related you want to do is so heavily regulated. You basically have to Sit up pretty like a dog and beg to get permission to do anything. Then wait two years to get through the red tape.
Notice discussion of converting a gun to FAC level is forbidden on UK airgun forums. You're probably better off buying an FAC version and tuning it down if you want to.
Buying a used FAC gun is probably cheaper than a standard there because of the limited market. Who wants to go through all the hassles of obtaining a ticket?

 

[ReeceMTunes]

You might want to check your regulations first. I'm not sure that's so simple in UK. Seems like anything firearms related you want to do is so heavily regulated. You basically have to Sit up pretty like a dog and beg to get permission to do anything. Then wait two years to get through the red tape.
Notice discussion of converting a gun to FAC level is forbidden on UK airgun forums. You're probably better off buying an FAC version and tuning it down if you want to.
Buying a used FAC gun is probably cheaper than a standard there because of the limited market. Who wants to go through all the hassles of obtaining a ticket?

Unfortunately that is the nature of the gun culture here in UK. It's practically all older men, set in their ways and very VERY obedient to the law. If their gun runs at 12.1 ft-lb with any pellet, they strip the rifle down immediately and start hacking at the mainspring, with pride. When you get thousands of grown men acting like this, it really does keep the gun laws practically unchallenged here. Not like the USA where they are power hungry. The culture here is 'how can we make our weak guns weaker:')'

You can't purchase a FAC gun and down tune it here in the UK without a firearms licence. And you can't buy one second hand as the seller has to notify the police as it's registered to that person.

And your right about the UK forums. I think it's a collected attempt at protecting the sport and not receiving any further pressure from the authorities. Although I argue we are going to wrong way about it and "shooting our selves in the foot" excuse the terrible pun.