HW95/R9 Piston seal

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badger5th

badger5th

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Jun 25, 2022
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Last project installed a 12 fpe Vortek kit in my 0.177 R9. Got the replacement Vortek seal with the kit. Photo of the original Wierhauch seal here. Some minor face damage. No massive dieseling or detonation to my knowledge. Does this look like normal wear and tear?
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Also, Installed the new Vortek kit with seal and put the gun back together. Put a pellet in and my airgun turned into a firearm. A massive detonation with a visible muzzle flash. 22 rimfire report in basement. I don't know where any grease could have come from in the installation of the tune kit. The silver lining was it was an unbelievably sweet shot cycle. Oh well need to strip down again and see if I jacked up the new seal and degrease everything. Regards, Badger
 
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Yeah that actually looks pretty tame compared to some of the factory HW seals I've replaced even after only putting a tin through them.

I seriously doubt you jacked up the new seal though. The Vortek seals seem to be much more durable than the factory seal. I've had more than a few detonations after installing a new seal the first couple of times because I either missed a glob of grease or over lubed. It never did any damage. Just tear it back down and clean it up real good and you'll be good to go.
 
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Sqwirlfugger57 said:
Yeah that actually looks pretty tame compared to some of the factory HW seals I've replaced even after only putting a tin through them.

I seriously doubt tou jacked up the new seal though. Tge Vortek seals seem to be much more durable than the factory seal. I've had more than a few detonations after installing a new seal the first couple of times because I either missed a glob of grease or over lubed in a hurry. It never did any damage. Just tear it back down and clean it up real good and you'll be good to go.
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OK, Hope you're right. It was an amazing flash bang smoke cloud.
 
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badger5th said:
OK, Hope you're right. It was an amazing flash bang smoke cloud.
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Lol we've all been there. I got my 97K to push nearly 30fpe for a few shots after installing an HO kit with too much moly. After giving it a second attempt at cleaning, I'm probably 15k through that gun now and it's still that same seal. Live and learn.
 
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This and non-chlorinated brake cleaner is what I use to mop out the compression tube. Keep mopping until the towel comes out white. The compression tube has to be bone dry. No lubricant. Only put a light smear on the piston seal shoulder and the last half inch of the piston skirt. Less is best

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OK, Thoroughly cleaned and dried the compression tube. No damage to the Vortek seal. Shoots like a dream now. One single thud with zero twang or vibration. With 8.44gr JSB's MV dropped from 920 fps to 850 fps. Spread dropped from 21 fps to 10 fps. SD dropped from 6.0 fps to 2.8 fps. Groups tightened up not much at 10m but a measurable decrease in group size. Not quite a 12 fpe kit, getting around 13 fpe.
 
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Mo-Ron said:
Was normal for me ..lol in like 4- 6 months from new. Then what do i really expect for a 400+$ gun..., Quality?

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This was my first Weihrauch I ever bought; a .22 HW97K. I was hesitant to tear it down because I had never attempted it before. Two tins in and it was still smoking pretty badly so I gave it a go. This is what I found...

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There was so much lube at the bottom of the compression tube I probably could have saved it to lube 10 different guns. From that point on all my guns were disassembled, cleaned, polished and relubed the day I got them. None have ever been that bad but its still worth the effort to me because they're definitely still quality guns. This particular gun prints 50yd groups I wouldn't have imagined possible after shooting the first two Gamos I got.

Now to be fair to Weihrauch here, this gun was purchased a year into Covid. Things were very screwy in all aspects of manufacturing then and we're still seeing the fallout of that, albeit nowhere near as bad. Many companies are still training new employees which is never fun either.
 
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The seal on the right was the original from my January 2021 purchased HW95 with 500 rounds through it. It was broke clean through. It was way over lubed. I got a new seal from AOA for no charge and installed it after a proper clean and light lube, deburr. the left seal is the product after 500 rounds again. It makes me wonder if there is a bur around the transfer port that is causing a small fracture/stress riser at the point of impact. I did have an ARH seal in it and it had some stamping in its face, but no real damage to speak of. You could tell the seal was rotating on the piston as the stampings were in a ring circling the face. Currently running a Vortek seal.
 
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I guess what I forgot to add was relevance to the original post. I think the durability of the aftermarket seals is much higher the the original seal. Coupled with proper cleaning/lubing, I think your dieseling should not have damaged the seal. And if it stopped dieseling after a few shots I, and you didn't over lube, I'd keep shooting it.
 
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I noticed back when guys seeing the hw seals doing all this (gta) .. made me wonder if there old seals getting hard and cracking or they changed the formula in the plastic making them. I dont mind replacing a seal on occasion but that spring in that one all that in less then a year..lol.

I thought it was slamming do to the things that cause that like loos fitting pellets or breach seal but i never seen a transfer port hole mark in mine just cracking.

Y'all's pictures they kinda show the spot in the area of the transfer port . And the burning jets in and scoruches the seal ( opinion)

Or like this seal in just a few 100 shots has started

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There's nothing wrong with the seal material. It's the combined heat of compression and combustion that erodes the seals. When you compress air, it gets hot. A springer compresseses air so quickly it gets very hot. Hot enough to ignite the lube. The highest heat is usually focused at the transfer port because that's where the hot air travels through. The white lube on that 22 97 piston and seal wasn't from Weihrauch. They don't use a white grease. The rifle was probably returned and serviced by a distributor if it was bought new. That grease is either lithium or Krytox. And yes Krytox will smoke when used excessively like that.

Some dieseling is normal but it should be so slight it's undetectable. Detectable dieseling usually destroys seals and accuracy. It's important to clean and mop out all the grease in the compression tube. Including the depths of the braze joint. Then only lube the seal shoulder and the last half inch of the piston with a light smear of grease. More than that the lube will over load seal and wind up in front of the seal and you'll have bad dieseling again.

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TXRMike said:
I think my 95 Luxus was bought in December of 2021 and I probably shot less than 500 rounds through it before I replaced the seal. You can also see where mine was cut by the burred cocking shoe channel at the factory. For the record my 95 was not crazy over lubed but my 2021 HW30 Deluxe was.

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You can see the erosion at the transfer port. The cocking slot scores are common. It creates a path at the bottom of tube for lube to pass in front of the seal. This is why dieseling never clears up and burns out the seals in new guns. It's usually just a matter of time. It's important to deburr the openings in the compression tube before replacing the seal. The cocking slot edges are often sharp enough to cut you as easily as the seal.
 
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Mycapt65 said:
There's nothing wrong with the seal material. It's the combined heat of compression and combustion that erodes the seals. When you compress air, it gets hot. A springer compresseses air so quickly it gets very hot. Hot enough to ignite the lube. The highest heat is usually focused at the transfer port because that's where the hot air travels through. The white lube on that 22 97 piston and seal wasn't from Weihrauch. They don't use a white grease. The rifle was probably returned and serviced by a distributor if it was bought new. That grease is either lithium or Krytox. And yes Krytox will smoke when used excessively like that.

Some dieseling is normal but it should be so slight it's undetectable. Detectable dieseling usually destroys seals and accuracy. It's important to clean and mop out all the grease in the compression tube. Including the depths of the braze joint. Then only lube the seal shoulder and the last half inch of the piston with a light smear of grease. More than that the lube will over load seal and wind up in front of the seal and you'll have bad dieseling again.

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That gun was bought brand new from Krale so not sure how else it would have gotten in there unless Krale opened it up
 
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