HW95 - which tuning kit is best for DIY?

[jimk1963]

Hi All, some overlap with other threads but hopefully more focused on a specific question: for a DIY at-home rebuild, which tuning kit to use on a brand new HW95? Not interested/concerned with older models that may have oversized cocking shoes, etc. AFAIK, the contenders are:

1) Tinbum Maxi Tuning Kit: https://www.airrifletuning.com/store/weihrauch-hw95-98-maxi-tuning-kit/
2) Vortek PG4 HO Kit: http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/PG3-TUNE_KITS?product_id=375
3) Vortek PG4 12ft-lb Kit: http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/PG3-TUNE_KITS?product_id=416
4) ARH Hornet Kit: https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/43393.htm
5) V-Mach Venom Kit: https://www.air-rifle-tuning.com/v-mach/Products_and_Information.html (Have to call or email to get any info...)
6) Full Custom: If all else fails, send it to a master tuner, have them fabricate custom-fitted delrin guide/top hat to existing spring/piston

Did I miss anything?

My limited understanding:

1) Tinbum Maxi Kit:
Uses factory HW spring, fitted guides/top hat optional short-stroke (delrin piece included if you're so inclined), no outer sleeve (I surmise you can just leave the factory HW piston sleeve in the piston). Very likely ZERO issues with fit/interference with cocking shoe, etc.
2/3) Vortek PG4:
Uses a custom spring, fitted guide/top hat, and a metal outer sleeve that requires removal of the HW factory piston sleeve. Mixed reviews - when it works, people love it. When the metal outer guide grinds against the cocking shoe, DIYer has to grind down the cocking shoe ("polish") and potentially the outer sleeve (although it's cheese-metal so my understanding is that very little can be done here).
4) ARH:
The "Hornet" kit is all I can find on the website. Doesn't seem like a full-power solution... "makes full power but with more docile springs". Hmmm. Additionally, on this thread wimpanzee found that the ARH spring he obtained still interfered with the cocking shoe, so he sent it to a master tuner who went back to the factory spring.

Hw95 cocking very "gritty" after vortek PG4 kit. what would you do?

I still felt like the cocking shoe was dragging on the spring with an ARH spring kit that I also tried. Not feeling real confident that I could do anything besides keep making it worse, I sent it off to a master tuner. I got it back yesterday, shooting very smooth, but after being spoiled by...

www.airgunnation.com

5) V-Mach:
Custom spring (I think), fitted guide/top hat, piston seal, and metal outer sleeve (again, to use this, must remove HW factory piston sleeve). One German DIYer on U-toobe installed this kit, made a couple of easily corrected mistakes, but overall had a very poor result. Most notably, piston seal is grossly oversized, supposedly requiring as much as 1,000 rounds to "settle in". Not sure what to make of this kit, has lovers/haters galore. Doesn't seem to have any obvious advantage over the similarly-constructed PG4.
6) Full Custom:
Safest route, for sure, but obviously not DIY.

Thoughts?

As an aside, I've been working on my Anschutz LG 380 for the past couple of weeks, and fully appreciate how challenging it can be to get a good result when changing out these springer engine parts. Still working on this fussy girl as I await a new piston ring from WCG. There's a reason master tuners earn their keep!

 

[Moog]

I did not buy the whole kit but used ARH Hornet springs and Vortek piston seals in both of my HW95s and have had excellent results. I also used ARH Black Tar on the spring and ARH Moly Paste in the necessary areas. I'm getting very smooth shot cycles and accuracy has been very good. No problems at all with either rifle. Both of my HW95s are newer models and I did not mess with the cocking shoe. Didn't use derlin guides either. As I said I'm getting very smooth shot cycles in both rifles.

Just one thing. Since I used the factory spring guides I needed to decrease the diameter of the guides a little bit with a dremel because the ARH Hornet Springs were a little to tight of a fit. I'm no professional tuner yet I had no problems doing the work myself.

 

[Struckat]

I have used the Vortek and ARH in my 95, both excellent. I like the Vortek because it it easy to cut coils for a little smoother shot cycle. With the ARHi would have to finish the end of the spring.

 

[Jlowe]

I've put in several ARH (Maccari) tune kits in R9's and in HW80's over the years. Yes, they are full power and smoother cocking and shooting than the Vortek kits. Personally, I would recommend one if you're getting an HW95. You need a spring compressor and Pyramyd Air sells them or its going to be a pain getting the gun back together.
The Vortek kits are good as well and there is nothing wrong with them, but after installing about 30 of these things my preference is the ARH kits and the Vortek Piston seal. If I bought one today, that is exactly the combination I would use. I've never once had to grind down a cocking shoe.
Also, there is no possible way for the ARH kit to interfere with cocking. It's never happened to me, and not sure how that's even possible unless you re-install the cocking she wrong. His springs are superior to the stock spring in every way. That guy was a legend in the airgun community back in the springer days.

 

[jimk1963]

I've put in several ARH (Maccari) tune kits in R9's and in HW80's over the years. Yes, they are full power and smoother cocking and shooting than the Vortek kits. Personally, I would recommend one if you're getting an HW95. You need a spring compressor and Pyramyd Air sells them or its going to be a pain getting the gun back together.
The Vortek kits are good as well and there is nothing wrong with them, but after installing about 30 of these things my preference is the ARH kits and the Vortek Piston seal. If I bought one today, that is exactly the combination I would use. I've never once had to grind down a cocking shoe.
Also, there is no possible way for the ARH kit to interfere with cocking. It's never happened to me, and not sure how that's even possible. His springs are superior to the stock spring in every way. That guy was a legend in the airgun community back in the springer days.

Thanks jasmlowe! Thoughts:

0) Have a spring compressor and all the tools/lubes needed. For moly, have ARH and Air Venturi concoctions. Also have PTFE options (Krytox, Ultimox, and Super Lube). Picked up the PTFE after reading so many good things about performance, from both airgunners and powder guys. Also invested in an ultrasonic cleaner, and have made sure to clean parts to avoid moly/PTFE contamination.

1) The issue with ARH spring was found by another gunner, per the thread I copied. I hadn't heard of such interference before either, but please refer to that thread for more info. Sounded like the spring OD was perhaps larger than the factory spring, and interfered with the cocking shoe but I'm just speculating. Another gunner on that thread discussed a cocking shoe issue where HW used the same part number for two different-sized CS's. One was about 0.3", the other about 0.27" if memory serves. I guess IF the oversized CS was installed in an HW95, it might create unwanted interference. Again, just speculating.

2) My guns are loaded up with Maccari kits, I've been reasonably happy with them although my FWB 124's still have more twang than I'd like - and they were both tuned by a pro. Velocity is on the high side, both guns shoot around 870fps w/ 7g, about 775fps w/ 8.2g. It's possible the Maccari kits in these could use one or two less spring coils, not sure.

3) Lots of folks claim the Vortek kits are the smoothest with highest power, and I've watched plenty of success stories on u-toobe to that effect (ex: I like the Pellets and Pistons channel, Kevin LaRose - he's great, and a gunsmith by trade). I guess it's one of those your-mileage-may-vary things, Your recommendation to use Maccari spring/guides + Vortek seal is the first I've read, but sounds like a great idea. I've just been concerned with that ARH Hornet kit... JM has other "softer" kits that he says lower velocity by only 5%, but folks who've installed those have observed much bigger drop-offs. That's what sticks in my mind when I read JM's Hornet description. Also just caught Moog's note - apparently the ARH Hornet springs are too tight for the HW95 stock spring guides - that's pretty surprising actually. Usually the problem is the other way around (stock guides are too small and rattle around). If I go ARH, will definitely buy the complete kit so I can be sure the guides are matched to the spring.

 

[Vincent10]

I added an ARH UK 12 lbs kit to my HW97 and this kit can also be used with the HW95. The spring is an Ox spring and is nailed on to the delrin guide. The piston would latch but the trigger felt different and shot cycle was harder. I removed the delrin top hat and this fixed the issue.

I had a similar issue with my 97 .20 and a PG4 12 lbs kit. The shot cycle was harsh and the trigger pull became heavier. This time I left the top hat installed, but removed all of the spacers/washers and that worked.

This week I installed a PG4 12lbs kit in my HW98 without any spacers. This time I used a Vortek seal and only used the supplied grease. This eliminated all twang and buzz. For a 12 lbs kit the rifle seems to shoot hard with 9 grain Normas and CP Heavies producing clusters at 25 yards. Today I removed the spring and added ARH heavy tar to the spring to see if this helps calm down the shot cycle.

As mentioned in another thread about PG4 kits, there might be some galling caused by contact with the cocking shoe on some rifles. Today I checked the 98 and saw this was happening. I wiped off the Vortek grease and added ARH moly paste to the outside of the metal guide sleeve. The cocking seems to be less gritty now, but time will tell.

Both ARH and Vortek kits were easy to install without a compressor and have improved the shot cycles. If I had to choose one kit it would be the ARH UK kit since it can be dropped in other HWs.

 

[Moog]

jink 1963, the OD of the JM Hornet Spring is the same as the factory spring. Keep in mind JM makes different springs so who ever said the JM spring has a larger OD might have been talking about a different one. Both ends of the JM Hornet spring match up perfectly against the factory spring. The inside diameter of the ARH spring looks a little smaller. As I said it was a tight fit on the factory spring guide. Side note. The ARH spring is a half inch longer than the factory spring.

ARH spring on the right. Factory spring on the left.

 

[thumper]

The Vortek kit adds in extra metal-to-metal friction that's entirely unnecessary. They also by design are forced to use a smaller outside diameter spring, which is higher strained than a larger diameter spring. There also several reports (mine included) of problems when fitting. Overspung and overly complicated with cheap construction.

The ARH kits have a proven track record over MANY years. They are able to use a larger and less strained spring, and should last much longer and be easier to cock. There is no outer guide to take up extra space in the piston or cause friction/galling. The ARH moly lubes are also excellent and copied by many.

I've used both of these, and will never purchase another Vortek kit under any circumstances.

FYI: VMach doesn't offer kits anymore, so they are out.

FYI: ARH offers the GSX kit for lower 12ft/lb power. It's the very first listing...

 

[jimk1963]

I added an ARH UK 12 lbs kit to my HW97 and this kit can also be used with the HW95. The spring is an Ox spring and is nailed on to the delrin guide. The piston would latch but the trigger felt different and shot cycle was harder. I removed the delrin top hat and this fixed the issue.

I had a similar issue with my 97 .20 and a PG4 12 lbs kit. The shot cycle was harsh and the trigger pull became heavier. This time I left the top hat installed, but removed all of the spacers/washers and that worked.

This week I installed a PG4 12lbs kit in my HW98 without any spacers. This time I used a Vortek seal and only used the supplied grease. This eliminated all twang and buzz. For a 12 lbs kit the rifle seems to shoot hard with 9 grain Normas and CP Heavies producing clusters at 25 yards. Today I removed the spring and added ARH heavy tar to the spring to see if this helps calm down the shot cycle.

As mentioned in another thread about PG4 kits, there might be some galling caused by contact with the cocking shoe on some rifles. Today I checked the 98 and saw this was happening. I wiped off the Vortek grease and added ARH moly paste to the outside of the metal guide sleeve. The cocking seems to be less gritty now, but time will tell.

Both ARH and Vortek kits were easy to install without a compressor and have improved the shot cycles. If I had to choose one kit it would be the ARH UK kit since it can be dropped in other HWs.

Thanks Vincent, I’ll have a look at the UK kit. Re: your 98, that galling could be cause for concern. Even with moly to reduce friction, you may end up with metal shavings after enough cocking cycles. This is what I’d like to avoid.

 

[Jlowe]

The Vortek kit adds in extra metal-to-metal friction that's entirely unnecessary. They also by design are forced to use a smaller outside diameter spring, which is higher strained than a larger diameter spring. There also several reports (mine included) of problems when fitting. Overspung and overly complicated with cheap construction.

The ARH kits have a proven track record over MANY years. They are able to use a larger and less strained spring, and should last much longer and be easier to cock. There is no outer guide to take up extra space in the piston or cause friction/galling. The ARH moly lubes are also excellent and copied by many.

I've used both of these, and will never purchase another Vortek kit under any circumstances.

FYI: VMach doesn't offer kits anymore, so they are out.

FYI: ARH offers the GSX kit for lower 12ft/lb power. It's the very first listing...

Here is an example of another long time air gunner who knows his springers and has a lot of experience.

 

[jimk1963]

The Vortek kit adds in extra metal-to-metal friction that's entirely unnecessary. They also by design are forced to use a smaller outside diameter spring, which is higher strained than a larger diameter spring. There also several reports (mine included) of problems when fitting. Overspung and overly complicated with cheap construction.

The ARH kits have a proven track record over MANY years. They are able to use a larger and less strained spring, and should last much longer and be easier to cock. There is no outer guide to take up extra space in the piston or cause friction/galling. The ARH moly lubes are also excellent and copied by many.

I've used both of these, and will never purchase another Vortek kit under any circumstances.

FYI: VMach doesn't offer kits anymore, so they are out.

FYI: ARH offers the GSX kit for lower 12ft/lb power. It's the very first listing...

Thanks Thumper, saw your other postings to this effect. Makes sense, although I see some are having good success with Vortek piston seals. Not sure what makes theirs better….

Re: ARH kit, forgot to list it but I had already discounted it because it seems fraught with limitations - “not a magnum kit”, “not for heavier pellets”, etc. This is along the lines of my earlier comment on his so-called “softer” kits… I’m looking for full power, with a faster, smoother shot cycle. If that kit can provide that, it’s not obvious. Also appears that kit requires spring spacers to achieve max power, doesn’t sound ideal. Have you used this kit on a 95/97/98?

 

[jimk1963]

jink 1963, the OD of the JM Hornet Spring is the same as the factory spring. Keep in mind JM makes different springs so who ever said the JM spring has a larger OD might have been talking about a different one. Both ends of the JM Hornet spring match up perfectly against the factory spring. The inside diameter of the ARH spring looks a little smaller. As I said it was a tight fit on the factory spring guide. Side note. The ARH spring is a half inch longer than the factory spring.

ARH spring on the right. Factory spring on the left.

View attachment 274451

View attachment 274452

Thanks Moog for the confirmation. Not sure what went awry on that other thread, but good to know this is a non-issue For this ARH kit.

 

[EMrider]

Thanks Thumper, saw your other postings to this effect. Makes sense, although I see some are having good success with Vortek piston seals. Not sure what makes theirs better….

Re: ARH kit, forgot to list it but I had already discounted it because it seems fraught with limitations - “not a magnum kit”, “not for heavier pellets”, etc. This is along the lines of my earlier comment on his so-called “softer” kits… I’m looking for full power, with a faster, smoother shot cycle. If that kit can provide that, it’s not obvious. Also appears that kit requires spring spacers to achieve max power, doesn’t sound ideal. Have you used this kit on a 95/97/98?

Based on my experience, the ARH kit checks all of your boxes. I also prefer their smoother shot cycle over Vortek. Vortek’s major advantage is that their top hat design makes clipping coils very easy if you want/need to adjust power. The ARH vs. Vortek discussion has been covered in many threads. There seems to be less first hand knowledge of the Tinbum and V-Mach kits.
R

 

[Moedelawn]

I am a new member and I had to relay my experience with the tune kit I installed on my 22 cal R9. I was getting 700-708fps with Ftt 14.3 with the factory spring. It shot the 5.54 the best. Air Arms Falcon was a notch below. I wanted less spring twang and I found it hard to shoot accurately because of how hold sensitive it was. As suggested by some, I installed the Arh hornet spring kit and a Vortek seal. I degreased everything and used Krytox lube and went shoot. I can't believe the difference in the shot cycle and how much easier it is to shoot accurately. It's around 722fps after 100 shots. At 20 yards it makes 1 hole with the Ftt. Even the Hades which were horrible before group very well. I shot Barracuda 15, 18 and AA Falcons and they all group better now. I'll try 30 yards when I have time. I was concerned I would lose power with the Arh but it increased. I wasn't looking for more power but I'm not upset about it.

 

[Buddy2023]

This is my first post Hi everybody I recently bought a new .22 Beeman R9 and it's well made and very accurate, but it needs more horse power. They advertise the R9 as a hunting rifle but it's so slow it just sticks pellets visibly into 1/2" plywood at 25 yards it bounced off a piece of cherry wood at 15 yards. I was using the RWS Super H Points 14.2 grain pellets. The rifle is top notch quality and it's a dream to shoot albeit a little twangy (that's getting better as I shoot it) but it needs work. Is there anything that can be done to get this rifle into the 730-750 fps range using the RWS pellets I mentioned? I don't have a chronograph but as is this rifle can't be shooting any faster than the mid 600 fps range and that just doesn't cut the mustard. Looking forward to your comments, thanks guys

 

[Hateful McNasty]

If brand new id just shoot it out after i inspected the guts cleaned and relubed properly..

At worse maybe drop in a new seal from arh or the vortec one ( all i used is the arh , but lots like vortec seals).

My last r9 the hw factory seal was pretty loose . The springs ok so in all i shoot it till i bust the spring under normal ware and tare. Then i use the arh stuff / hornet spring and whatever seals.

Shouldn't need that tar and stuff . Just proper moly or krytox and should be smooth as butter and shoot consistent..

Good luck

 

[wimpanzee]

This is my first post Hi everybody I recently bought a new .22 Beeman R9 and it's well made and very accurate, but it needs more horse power. They advertise the R9 as a hunting rifle but it's so slow it just sticks pellets visibly into 1/2" plywood at 25 yards it bounced off a piece of cherry wood at 15 yards. I was using the RWS Super H Points 14.2 grain pellets. The rifle is top notch quality and it's a dream to shoot albeit a little twangy (that's getting better as I shoot it) but it needs work. Is there anything that can be done to get this rifle into the 730-750 fps range using the RWS pellets I mentioned? I don't have a chronograph but as is this rifle can't be shooting any faster than the mid 600 fps range and that just doesn't cut the mustard. Looking forward to your comments, thanks guys

I'm not sure about the RWS pellets, but the one weird thing about mine (and Shane at AoA confirmed this) is that JSB pellets shoot at lower power than H&N pellets do. My full power HW95 .177 will shoot jsb pellets (7, 8, 10gr) at around 10.5fpe, but the H&N pellets hit 13-14fpe. I don't think they seal well in the large HW bores - in fact all the H&N pellets that shoot well in mine are the larger sizes - 4.53mm and up...maybe the RWS are also undersized? have you ran it over a chrony?

 

[Buddy2023]

Thanks for the quick replies fellas, I think I'm just going to keep shooting it for now, I bought it new three weeks ago and I don't even have a full tin of pellets through it yet, I hate the thought of tearing into the rifle and replacing parts after just paying $500 for it, but I think the Vortek HO kit is in its future.

Thanks again guys

 

[RWSx3]

It IS a tough pill to swallow....! buying a new quality rifle and not getting the advertised performance expected. Hopefully, more break-in time will bring up your expectations and velocities.
In reading your other new posts, I believe if it were my purchase,, I may be returning this rifle as "defective". Pellets bouncing off seasoned cherry firewood is surely a possiblity and pellets sticking into 1/2" plywood without going through....? I would expect that also..... but hitting a squirrel in the chest (or anywhere) at the range claimed and the squirrel runs off ? ... sorry, but I'm skeptical.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

It IS a tough pill to swallow....! buying a new quality rifle and not getting the advertised performance expected. Hopefully, more break-in time will bring up your expectations and velocities.
In reading your other new posts, I believe if it were my purchase,, I may be returning this rifle as "defective". Pellets bouncing off seasoned cherry firewood is surely a possiblity and pellets sticking into 1/2" plywood without going through....? I would expect that also..... but hitting a squirrel in the chest (or anywhere) at the range claimed and the squirrel runs off ? ... sorry, but I'm skeptical.

You can look back years and see guys buying a hw and snatching it apart to "fix" it up or throw a new spring&seal in .

Me unless hw just totaly goofed the seal install i just look over / clean up there assembly work and shoot it .

I use to joke and say this is why germany lost the war .. cause they could not figure out how to keep the screws tight .. lol.

Also i daid about the factory installed seal being under sized and also a hard material is so they can slap it together fast and not get snagged on the razor blades at the cutouts of / in the tube

Also i think now the pricing is up over 400$ for a 95/r9 they just went over the line of worth it or not worth it.. id like another one but 499$ today. Just cant do that.... Sorry hw.