HW97K .22 - many questions

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my87csx481

my87csx481

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Jun 6, 2019
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Fort Fairfield, ME, United States
Sorry for starting another HW97K thread but, I did not want to continue hijacking other people's threads, and I could not find the information I seek using AGN's search, or google, or youtube. Sorry for the long post.

I am an airgun noob, but I have mechanical ability. I used to be a machinist (25+ years) but, I no longer have access to machine tools. I made a career change 5 years ago. I currently shoot a Gamo gas ram rifle that I've worked on (lube tune, debur, piston seal and sizing, trigger, flipped the ram) but I am less than satisfied with the accuracy. I'm hoping the accuracy problem is not all me. My new Weihrauch should arrive soon (I have tracking info but, it's currently still in Europe). I chose .22 because I already have a ton of .22 pellets, and I need to remove the occasional nuisance red squirrel. Primary use will be paper targets. Primary desire is to shoot as far as I can, as accurately as I can. Probably should have gotten .177. I'm sure I'll end up with one in .177 soon enough.😃 PCP is not an option at this time.

Air Rifle Headquarters lists a Hornet FAC kit for the HW97, with a disclaimer/warning about how the kit will not fix your rifle or increase performance if you have a bad compression tube. I asked for more info/help on diagnosing this type of problem. I was given someone else's email to contact. It's been a couple weeks. I don't expect a response. And that's the primary reason I started this thread.

So, here's the many questions:

  1. Anyone know where I can find info on diagnosing a faulty/leaking compression tube?
  2. Is this problem still common? With current production units?
  3. What is the fix for a leaking compression tube? Replace it? Bore it oversize (and round), and hone? Something else?
  4. Where do you guys source OEM Weihrauch parts in the US? Pyramyd lists some but, no where near all parts, and many are branded as Beeman.
  5. I have found several (I think older) posts claiming OEM Weihrauch breech seals and piston seals are better than aftermarket. Is this really the case, with current production models/parts? What are THE breech seals to use? What are THE piston seals to use?
  6. It seems most find that .177 at the 12 fpe level is the best for accuracy. Does the .22 spec'd at 14.7 fpe need to be detuned to achieve its best accuracy?
  7. Care to share the .22 energy, pellet, weight, velocity, head size that gave you the best accuracy?
    [/LIST=1]

    I have many tuning kit specific questions but, I think I'll contact the sellers/designers first.

    I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, seeing how I don't even have the rifle yet but, I am trying to be able to take care of issues quickly, should they arise. Call it advance planning.

    Thanks for any help. My apologies again for the lengthy post.
 
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it's all good,calm down,do not put problems into something that properly has no problems....I have the same rifle in the same cal.I have not heard of the problems you mentioned.

My advice it to get the rifle ,shoot it,break it in,find the pellets it likes and have fun.

I have big hands,fat fingers so .22 is better for me,like finger prints rifles have their own ways...

I think in all reality you could shoot 10,000 pellets through it with no problems.

I think 850fps is plenty....13.43 grains is good in mine,English work better than Czech,even though there are the same pellet.

The problem is fit and weight...the pull is too short,so I put an adjustable butt plate on it,the butt plate has "wings" so that helps my stance , I could hold the rifle a lot longer;

I was able to shoot better off-hand with it....plus the butt plate made it less muzzle heavy.

Plenty of people do put "kits" in their 97....all in all it is a great ,accurate pig of an air rifle....I say that with love.ps. some day I may put a "kit" in mine.....
 
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Dude your way over thinking this thing!!! Lol

Get the gun and shoot it and then shoot it some more...all these things your asking come in time and your not going to learn everything in a single post...and every gun is different and likes different ammo!

Some of those issues do happen every so often but don't sweat it...break it in and learn how to shoot it before you worry about any kind of tuning or upgrades...springers take practice and it might not be your bag...soooooo! 

James from Michigan 
 
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I think that the springers I’ve had the pleasure of owning or seeing from peers seem to lose accuracy as the power increases but I’ve never shot a 500+ dollar springer over 13fpe roughly so I’m not that reliable of a source. Distance of target shooting matters. I actually like shooting 22s that I can watch the pellet drop down sometimes as I feel I can make adjustments easy. Ive never shot a Beeman r9 or a Weihrauch break barrel but I can tell you for sure my old Gamo accu 177 under lever (just bought a CFR today I’m super pumped for) was a whole different world better at shooting and accuracy then any break barrel I’ve ever shot. Due to my experiences I will probably never buy another break barrel airgun, but they are fun to shoot. Tinkering with CO2 and PCP guns is mouth more useful then tinkering with a springer imo. I did all you mentioned to two different Benjamin break barrels and lightly lapped the barrel also. I found a couple pellets that made the guns somewhat useful but I’d still never expect them to be anything but a plinker which diminished the cool factor of how strong they were. Oh and about detuning your 22 97, no way. 12FPE is a limit for field target usually and a legal limit in Europe. From what I’ve read I’m not convinced you’d get better application for your use (long range accuracy) by tuning it down.
 
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I don’t even know how many HW 97, and 77‘s I’ve owned over the years. I’ve never had a problem with a single one of them. Most of them were not tuned. All of them were extremely accurate. 22 sounds perfect for you. It will have the best trigger you’ve ever used on a rifle of any kind. Unless you Have a rifle with a jewel trigger. That power range is perfect for the caliber and the rifle, It will also take out squirrels very nicely.

When you buy a scope for it make sure you get rings that are designed to hold it on a spring piston ear gun and a scope that goes along with it also is springer rated.

mike

enjoy!

mike


 
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My 177 HW97 was showing signs of inaccuracy from the one hole groups I used to get. I figured it was time for a tear down and look see what was going on. Before i did, I put on my thinking cap and tried to figure out what changed.

I have been playing with my PCP guns a lot lately and hold condition is not that critical with them...I realized I was holding the 97 like a PCP, soft and lightly. So before going in, I grabbed the gun and tucked it in tighter to my shoulder. The group changed POI point but all the pellets went into the same hole. Some spring guns like the so called "artillery" hold. My 97 likes a bit more love and a snug grab. Not white knuckle, but snug.

A twist of the scope dials and all was well once again.

When you get your gun, be sure you grip it as close to the same each time you shoot it and don't be afraid to hold on tight as an experiment. Each gun may respond differently.
 
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Tracking says it's supposed to show up today....typically very late in the day. And then 2-3 days of rain. I might not be able to shoot it until Sunday or Monday.

My plan was to at least pull a few patches through it before ever shooting it. Anything else I should do before firing the first pellet? (besides inspecting for damage, and mounting my scope)

Thanks all again for the advice.
 
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I bought a second hand 97k in .20 a few years back, all I did was pull it apart and polish and relube. it is now bang on 15 FPE, and shoots like a lazer with H&N FTT's

Best air rifle I have ever owned (and I have owned heaps)





1588334151_4119201885eac0e473cafa3.98114382.jpg

 
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It will probably be fine out of the box. Mine has gone through a couple breech seals over the years, but that's it. I sent it for a tune when I first got it. He just made a tight fitting spring guide and top hat for it. Mine still has the original UK spec 12 ft lb spring and piston seal. I ordered spare seals and a spring from Airgunspares in the UK about a year ago just to have around. When I got my R7, it had a bit of buzz, so I just added some tar to the spring through the cocking slot to quiet it down. Don't overthink these.


 
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How do you like the feel of the stock? Do you find the cheek rest sticks out a bit far making scope/eye alignment less automatic? Also, do you find the pistol grip a bit larger than it needs to be? I ask these questions because having just received a new HW97K from Krale, I am not delighted with how bulky the stock is. Certainly enough wood is required in stress points, but the pistol grip and aft-stock doesn’t require a great deal of wood. These rifles are not .50 BMGs after all. Before I take my spokeshaves and rasps to this new gun stock, does anyone know a supplier of replacement stocks for this rifle? I prefer Walnut, and as sleek and light as possible, no pistol grip, no thumb hole, cheek rest isn’t needed either. Any thoughts? Thanks for letting a new member butt in. 
 
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I got mine from Krale too. But just the regular beech stock. Not the "T" thumb hole.

I am too much of a noob to provide reliable feedback to most of what you're asking. But I think it shoulders well for me. It just feels right (or at least much better than the rifle it replaced). I do find that the grip is somewhat slightly larger than what I need, but it's not objectionable. I like it, and its significance. I think the mass helps with keeping the recoil in check....again, compared to the rifle it replaced (9+ pounds vs. plastic 6 pounds)

I'm shooting off a bag for now. Once I get better/more consistent, I'll practice more advanced stuff. Just trying to teach myself how to shoot for now.

I had been looking to try to order the synthetic stock. That first ding/scratch in the wood is gonna hurt.

There are a few custom stock makers that have models for the 97. I think Pyramyd lists the Beeman stock for it too. Google is your friend.

Sorry man, maybe others will chime in. You may get more traffic with your own thread but, I don't care about hijacking mine either. Any info will help me too.

Ohhhh....no cheek rest....maybe take a look at the HW77 stock. Current production 77's and 97's actions will fit in either stock (from what I was told in another thread). I was thinking about putting a 77 in a 97 stock, to get a longer barrel but with the cheek rest stock.
 
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My Beeman 97K .22 has been professionally tuned. When I bought it from John in Pa, it had a Vortek SHO kit in it. Accurate, hard hitting, but too much cocking effort for long plinking sessions, didn't need that much power. Sent it off to Motorhead, he slowed it down to 12-13 ft/lbs and also fitted a Rowan adjustable butt pad. Place 3 AA 16gr. on the top turret and they don't budge while 1 holin' said pellet @ 25 meters. Great rifle out of the box, can be made stellar with a little work and knowledge. 
 
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it's all good,calm down,do not put problems into something that properly has no problems....I have the same rifle in the same cal.I have not heard of the problems you mentioned.

My advice it to get the rifle ,shoot it,break it in,find the pellets it likes and have fun.

I have big hands,fat fingers so .22 is better for me,like finger prints rifles have their own ways...

I think in all reality you could shoot 10,000 pellets through it with no problems.

I think 850fps is plenty....13.43 grains is good in mine,English work better than Czech,even though there are the same pellet.

The problem is fit and weight...the pull is too short,so I put an adjustable butt plate on it,the butt plate has "wings" so that helps my stance , I could hold the rifle a lot longer;

I was able to shoot better off-hand with it....plus the butt plate made it less muzzle heavy.

Plenty of people do put "kits" in their 97....all in all it is a great ,accurate pig of an air rifle....I say that with love.ps. some day I may put a "kit" in mine.....
Click to expand...


Sorry for the thread revival.

@boscoebrea is yours shooting 13.43 grains at 850? What size groups at what distance?
 
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In case anyone else stumbles upon this thread....



I've spent many frustrating hours over the last year+ trying to hit the broad side of a barn. Those days, I think, are finally over.



The Air Arms 13.43 are what mine prefers. 5 shot groups at 25 yards = all holes touching. I shoot the AA's slightly better than the JSB versions. I am currently using a detuned Vortek PG3 steel kit (my notes say I cut 2.5 coils off). 672 FPS average, ES of 11. Thanks @boscoebrea for posting about your AA results. I may have passed over the AA version without it. And I'd still be fighting with the FTT's, or the rifle would have sold by now.
 
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my87csx481 said:
Sorry for starting another HW97K thread but, I did not want to continue hijacking other people's threads, and I could not find the information I seek using AGN's search, or google, or youtube. Sorry for the long post.

I am an airgun noob, but I have mechanical ability. I used to be a machinist (25+ years) but, I no longer have access to machine tools. I made a career change 5 years ago. I currently shoot a Gamo gas ram rifle that I've worked on (lube tune, debur, piston seal and sizing, trigger, flipped the ram) but I am less than satisfied with the accuracy. I'm hoping the accuracy problem is not all me. My new Weihrauch should arrive soon (I have tracking info but, it's currently still in Europe). I chose .22 because I already have a ton of .22 pellets, and I need to remove the occasional nuisance red squirrel. Primary use will be paper targets. Primary desire is to shoot as far as I can, as accurately as I can. Probably should have gotten .177. I'm sure I'll end up with one in .177 soon enough.😃 PCP is not an option at this time.

Air Rifle Headquarters lists a Hornet FAC kit for the HW97, with a disclaimer/warning about how the kit will not fix your rifle or increase performance if you have a bad compression tube. I asked for more info/help on diagnosing this type of problem. I was given someone else's email to contact. It's been a couple weeks. I don't expect a response. And that's the primary reason I started this thread.

So, here's the many questions:

  1. Anyone know where I can find info on diagnosing a faulty/leaking compression tube?
  2. Is this problem still common? With current production units?
  3. What is the fix for a leaking compression tube? Replace it? Bore it oversize (and round), and hone? Something else?
  4. Where do you guys source OEM Weihrauch parts in the US? Pyramyd lists some but, no where near all parts, and many are branded as Beeman.
  5. I have found several (I think older) posts claiming OEM Weihrauch breech seals and piston seals are better than aftermarket. Is this really the case, with current production models/parts? What are THE breech seals to use? What are THE piston seals to use?
  6. It seems most find that .177 at the 12 fpe level is the best for accuracy. Does the .22 spec'd at 14.7 fpe need to be detuned to achieve its best accuracy?
  7. Care to share the .22 energy, pellet, weight, velocity, head size that gave you the best accuracy?
    [/LIST=1]

    I have many tuning kit specific questions but, I think I'll contact the sellers/designers first.

    I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, seeing how I don't even have the rifle yet but, I am trying to be able to take care of issues quickly, should they arise. Call it advance planning.

    Thanks for any help. My apologies again for the lengthy post.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is an older post, but Springer air rifles are way underrated whether skill of the shooter or just not tuned correctly. In FAC .22 my 97 is amazing !!!!!!
 
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