Pumpers and Daisy BB guns bring out that kid in you for those with fond memories of using them in your youth. Plus very lightweight for plinking in the woods.
Upvote 0
I can see NO love here..............
- Thread starter Nvreloader
- Start date
The Seneca Dragonfly in .177 version is on my list to consider buying later.
I don’t mind the pumping effort of my 880, which is said to be an easy one anyway. What I might mind someday is not being able to make a quick followup shot.
The self-contained system really appeals to minimalist me, though.
I don’t mind the pumping effort of my 880, which is said to be an easy one anyway. What I might mind someday is not being able to make a quick followup shot.
The self-contained system really appeals to minimalist me, though.
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And...
BB has another blog-post in the series that he's doing on the .177 version. I'm thinking there's a barrel problem when the .177s accuracy doesn't compare well with the .22.
J~
BB has another blog-post in the series that he's doing on the .177 version. I'm thinking there's a barrel problem when the .177s accuracy doesn't compare well with the .22.
Seneca Dragonfly Mark 2 .177: Part Eight | Pyramyd Air Blog
Today we have an unusual test to examine. It was supposed to be one thing and turned out to be another.
www.pyramydair.com
J~
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A nice little moderator would work as well. It has an M10x1 to 1/2x20 UNF set up on the muzzle which is the most flexible I've ever seen. I built a little moderator for mine with M10x1 threads in plastic. It butts right up against the front barrel band I also made. Both parts will be available soon. You can also opt for any 1/2x20 moderator on the market. https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/seneca-dragon-fly-22.1289750/post-1491474
I suspect most of those comments were made within the first couple of days of getting the rifle. The linkage looks flimsy but it's not. Once you get used to pumping the rifle and all the linkage it actually becomes rather pleasant exercise.
Last edited:
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I don't know how you lasted that long? I replaced all of my pumpers with a real one back in 72, a Sheridan .20 cal, and I was astounded at my first long range squirrel kill.
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.20calguy,
Not really a "latest, greatest" guy, find something I like and stick with it. The Crosman 760 and I handled lots of "pesting" problems in Pennsylvania, just didn't realize that tropical Florida grew bigger and tougher critters. Today, no crow lands closer than 200 yards to my house for more than a few seconds, just long enough to throw some crow profanities in my direction and scoot. The songbirds and I are just fine with it. WM
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My dragon fly has decided not fire when I pull the trigger.. Tom mentioned this in his reviews over a pyramid air. Others have discussed problems with the trigger. I guess this is the fly in the ointment. I don't care what the price point is for rifle the trigger should at least function. Fortunately the trigger is well understood and there's plenty of information on the web. . So it looks like I'll be troubleshooting the trigger.
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They definitely recognize me, during my daily neighborhood bike ride they cuss me out mightily, my reply, "Hey, you guys should stop by, I've got something special for you." No takers, yet. WM
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Remove the trigger guard/safety (one screw), and see if it shoots again. Mine did this a few days ago, and after I loosened the rear stock and straightened it, problem was solved. Could be loose trigger pins too. Easy fix.
Upvote 0
Guys
Here is an Update for my DF II, 22 cal rifle.
I got the service replacement package, when I check all the parts,
I found that the intake inlet hole of the valve was at .058" as compared to my OEM valve hole at .102", the TP hole dia was .136" for the replacement valve, same as the OEM valve.
All the internal hole dia are the same as the OEM valve, including the tapered check valve and poppet seats holes, TP hole was .136" same as the OEM valve.
The hammer spring weight was also changed to 12/13#'s.
It appears that this valve with the .058" intake hole, is for the .177 air rifle,
from the test results. If you change valves check all dimensions.
I decided to test the results of this new valve, and obtained these results,
Test I
1= 242 fps
2= 255 fps
3= 380 fps
4= 479 fps
5= 528 fps
6= 531 fps
7= 501 fps
8= 495 fps
9= 501 fps
10= 501 fps
11= 15 pumps @ 501 or less fps, appears to be stalled out on pumped air.
Same test format as all the rest of the tests, Oiled, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains, Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, 14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways were OEM dimensions, No air left after any shot.
Note:
When I opened the OEM stock valve, I found that the top tapered sealing valve
has a very distinct step/ring that measures approx .200" dia
and was stuck in the tapered section of the valve,
the rear poppet face was also stuck in the tapered air hole.
It appears that under pressure both of these seals/poppets are sticking,
due to the tapered sections on each end of the valve.
This may be the reason for the weird and quirky tests results...........
I'll have to use a .375" a piloted counterbore to mill a flat face on each end
and then make Peek valve poppet and seals to fit, and re test, the last few tests.
Summary of all the tests
Test A----B----C---D---E---E-1---F---G----H---H-1--I
1 pump = 265-288-262-255-259-269-269-262--252-236=242
2 pumps= 288-321-380-383-383------393-377--305-367=255
3 pumps= 322-354-462-465-465------452-390--383-449=380
4 pumps= 465-361-524-528-521------479-436--416-495=479
5 pumps= 515-597-574-570-567-574-538-488--449-511=528
6 pumps= 567-610-620-600-600------623-498--524-574=531
7 pumps= 600-616-643-626-623------646-639--567-597=501
8 pumps= 633-620-672-649-643------652-754--600-613=495
9 pumps= 652-651-688-659-662------708-810--633-757=501
10 pumps= 666-688-698-672-679-692-728-833-690-813=501
11 pumps= 678-----------688-683------744-833-711-856=501
12 pumps= 679-----------702-712------770-833-754-869=501
13 pumps= 681-----------712-718------770-833-801
14 pumps= 680----------------721------770-833-801
15 pumps= 679----------------728-741-770-833-801
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
(A Test)
Here is the full 15 shot+ pumps test, 3 pumps per the number,
pumps were a complete cycle, open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke. Check valve was .102" and TP hole was .136", with the OEM 18/19# spring, full length,14 gr Crosman ammo
(B Test)
1 complete turn on pump rod, only thing changed was, A 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long, .415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound at less than 1.030"
(C Test)
I just finished the 1 >10 pumps x 3 each per pump,
pumps were a complete cycle, open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke. 2 complete turns on pump rod head, nothing else changed, with a 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long, .415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound at less than 1.030"
(D Test)
1 >15 pumps x 3 tests per pump number, pumps were a complete cycle,
open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke.
2 complete turns on pump rod head, with a 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long,
.415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S Dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound less than 1.030",14 gr Crosman.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(E Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed was the hammer spring. Using a OEM 6/7# Storm Rider Round wire spring, 3.360" long, .384" O/S Dia, .300" I/S dia, 25 coils, .035" thick round wire, coil bound at 1.020",
14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(E-1 Test)
Here is something I found out that is very interesting with this DF II, 22cal rifle
I lubed all pivot points, and the oil wiper seal and shot these Oiled 3 pump tests.
(F Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed was the hammer weight to 533 gr and Hammer spring weight of 9-10#'s.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia,
.022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, 14 gr Crosman ammo.
2 complete turns on pump rod head.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(G Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains.
14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia,
.265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains. 14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .1562" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H-1 Test)
Oiled, no other changes
(I Test)
Installed the new OEM replacement valve, .058" inlet and .136" TP, all air passageways OEM stock, Oiled, Same test format as all the rest of the tests,
Alum Hammer weight at 533grains, Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long,
weight = 8-9#'s, 14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways were OEM dimensions, No air left after any shot.
Thanks,
Your thoughts and suggestions................
Tia,
Don
Here is an Update for my DF II, 22 cal rifle.
I got the service replacement package, when I check all the parts,
I found that the intake inlet hole of the valve was at .058" as compared to my OEM valve hole at .102", the TP hole dia was .136" for the replacement valve, same as the OEM valve.
All the internal hole dia are the same as the OEM valve, including the tapered check valve and poppet seats holes, TP hole was .136" same as the OEM valve.
The hammer spring weight was also changed to 12/13#'s.
It appears that this valve with the .058" intake hole, is for the .177 air rifle,
from the test results. If you change valves check all dimensions.
I decided to test the results of this new valve, and obtained these results,
Test I
1= 242 fps
2= 255 fps
3= 380 fps
4= 479 fps
5= 528 fps
6= 531 fps
7= 501 fps
8= 495 fps
9= 501 fps
10= 501 fps
11= 15 pumps @ 501 or less fps, appears to be stalled out on pumped air.
Same test format as all the rest of the tests, Oiled, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains, Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, 14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways were OEM dimensions, No air left after any shot.
Note:
When I opened the OEM stock valve, I found that the top tapered sealing valve
has a very distinct step/ring that measures approx .200" dia
and was stuck in the tapered section of the valve,
the rear poppet face was also stuck in the tapered air hole.
It appears that under pressure both of these seals/poppets are sticking,
due to the tapered sections on each end of the valve.
This may be the reason for the weird and quirky tests results...........
I'll have to use a .375" a piloted counterbore to mill a flat face on each end
and then make Peek valve poppet and seals to fit, and re test, the last few tests.
Summary of all the tests
Test A----B----C---D---E---E-1---F---G----H---H-1--I
1 pump = 265-288-262-255-259-269-269-262--252-236=242
2 pumps= 288-321-380-383-383------393-377--305-367=255
3 pumps= 322-354-462-465-465------452-390--383-449=380
4 pumps= 465-361-524-528-521------479-436--416-495=479
5 pumps= 515-597-574-570-567-574-538-488--449-511=528
6 pumps= 567-610-620-600-600------623-498--524-574=531
7 pumps= 600-616-643-626-623------646-639--567-597=501
8 pumps= 633-620-672-649-643------652-754--600-613=495
9 pumps= 652-651-688-659-662------708-810--633-757=501
10 pumps= 666-688-698-672-679-692-728-833-690-813=501
11 pumps= 678-----------688-683------744-833-711-856=501
12 pumps= 679-----------702-712------770-833-754-869=501
13 pumps= 681-----------712-718------770-833-801
14 pumps= 680----------------721------770-833-801
15 pumps= 679----------------728-741-770-833-801
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
(A Test)
Here is the full 15 shot+ pumps test, 3 pumps per the number,
pumps were a complete cycle, open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke. Check valve was .102" and TP hole was .136", with the OEM 18/19# spring, full length,14 gr Crosman ammo
(B Test)
1 complete turn on pump rod, only thing changed was, A 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long, .415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound at less than 1.030"
(C Test)
I just finished the 1 >10 pumps x 3 each per pump,
pumps were a complete cycle, open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke. 2 complete turns on pump rod head, nothing else changed, with a 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long, .415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound at less than 1.030"
(D Test)
1 >15 pumps x 3 tests per pump number, pumps were a complete cycle,
open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke.
2 complete turns on pump rod head, with a 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long,
.415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S Dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound less than 1.030",14 gr Crosman.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(E Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed was the hammer spring. Using a OEM 6/7# Storm Rider Round wire spring, 3.360" long, .384" O/S Dia, .300" I/S dia, 25 coils, .035" thick round wire, coil bound at 1.020",
14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(E-1 Test)
Here is something I found out that is very interesting with this DF II, 22cal rifle
I lubed all pivot points, and the oil wiper seal and shot these Oiled 3 pump tests.
(F Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed was the hammer weight to 533 gr and Hammer spring weight of 9-10#'s.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia,
.022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, 14 gr Crosman ammo.
2 complete turns on pump rod head.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(G Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains.
14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia,
.265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains. 14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .1562" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H-1 Test)
Oiled, no other changes
(I Test)
Installed the new OEM replacement valve, .058" inlet and .136" TP, all air passageways OEM stock, Oiled, Same test format as all the rest of the tests,
Alum Hammer weight at 533grains, Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long,
weight = 8-9#'s, 14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways were OEM dimensions, No air left after any shot.
Thanks,
Your thoughts and suggestions................
Tia,
Don
Upvote 0
Curious to see if the smaller valve inlet hole is what killed your power. How about the "H" setup (ported valve) with the replacement/suspect .177 inlet-end screwed on? I know, its a pain in the ass...Guys
Here is an Update for my DF II, 22 cal rifle.
I got the service replacement package, when I check all the parts,
I found that the intake inlet hole of the valve was at .058" as compared to my OEM valve hole at .102", the TP hole dia was .136" for the replacement valve, same as the OEM valve.
All the internal hole dia are the same as the OEM valve, including the tapered check valve and poppet seats holes, TP hole was .136" same as the OEM valve.
The hammer spring weight was also changed to 12/13#'s.
It appears that this valve with the .058" intake hole, is for the .177 air rifle,
from the test results. If you change valves check all dimensions.
I decided to test the results of this new valve, and obtained these results,
Test I
1= 242 fps
2= 255 fps
3= 380 fps
4= 479 fps
5= 528 fps
6= 531 fps
7= 501 fps
8= 495 fps
9= 501 fps
10= 501 fps
11= 15 pumps @ 501 or less fps, appears to be stalled out on pumped air.
Same test format as all the rest of the tests, Oiled, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains, Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, 14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways were OEM dimensions, No air left after any shot.
Note:
When I opened the OEM stock valve, I found that the top tapered sealing valve
has a very distinct step/ring that measures approx .200" dia
and was stuck in the tapered section of the valve,
the rear poppet face was also stuck in the tapered air hole.
It appears that under pressure both of these seals/poppets are sticking,
due to the tapered sections on each end of the valve.
This may be the reason for the weird and quirky tests results...........
I'll have to use a .375" a piloted counterbore to mill a flat face on each end
and then make Peek valve poppet and seals to fit, and re test, the last few tests.
Summary of all the tests
Test A----B----C---D---E---E-1---F---G----H---H-1--I
1 pump = 265-288-262-255-259-269-269-262--252-236=242
2 pumps= 288-321-380-383-383------393-377--305-367=255
3 pumps= 322-354-462-465-465------452-390--383-449=380
4 pumps= 465-361-524-528-521------479-436--416-495=479
5 pumps= 515-597-574-570-567-574-538-488--449-511=528
6 pumps= 567-610-620-600-600------623-498--524-574=531
7 pumps= 600-616-643-626-623------646-639--567-597=501
8 pumps= 633-620-672-649-643------652-754--600-613=495
9 pumps= 652-651-688-659-662------708-810--633-757=501
10 pumps= 666-688-698-672-679-692-728-833-690-813=501
11 pumps= 678-----------688-683------744-833-711-856=501
12 pumps= 679-----------702-712------770-833-754-869=501
13 pumps= 681-----------712-718------770-833-801
14 pumps= 680----------------721------770-833-801
15 pumps= 679----------------728-741-770-833-801
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
(A Test)
Here is the full 15 shot+ pumps test, 3 pumps per the number,
pumps were a complete cycle, open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke. Check valve was .102" and TP hole was .136", with the OEM 18/19# spring, full length,14 gr Crosman ammo
(B Test)
1 complete turn on pump rod, only thing changed was, A 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long, .415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound at less than 1.030"
(C Test)
I just finished the 1 >10 pumps x 3 each per pump,
pumps were a complete cycle, open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke. 2 complete turns on pump rod head, nothing else changed, with a 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long, .415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound at less than 1.030"
(D Test)
1 >15 pumps x 3 tests per pump number, pumps were a complete cycle,
open then closed arm pump arm, per each pump stroke.
2 complete turns on pump rod head, with a 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long,
.415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S Dia, 35 coils, .023" thick Flat wire, coil bound less than 1.030",14 gr Crosman.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(E Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed was the hammer spring. Using a OEM 6/7# Storm Rider Round wire spring, 3.360" long, .384" O/S Dia, .300" I/S dia, 25 coils, .035" thick round wire, coil bound at 1.020",
14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(E-1 Test)
Here is something I found out that is very interesting with this DF II, 22cal rifle
I lubed all pivot points, and the oil wiper seal and shot these Oiled 3 pump tests.
(F Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed was the hammer weight to 533 gr and Hammer spring weight of 9-10#'s.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia,
.022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, 14 gr Crosman ammo.
2 complete turns on pump rod head.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(G Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains.
14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia,
.265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains. 14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways opened up to .1562" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H-1 Test)
Oiled, no other changes
(I Test)
Installed the new OEM replacement valve, .058" inlet and .136" TP, all air passageways OEM stock, Oiled, Same test format as all the rest of the tests,
Alum Hammer weight at 533grains, Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long,
weight = 8-9#'s, 14 gr Crosman ammo.
All air passageways were OEM dimensions, No air left after any shot.
Thanks,
Your thoughts and suggestions................
Tia,
Don
Upvote 0
HPP
The I test was the same as the H Test, this replacement valve had the OEM .058"/.136" holes and all the rest of air passageways were .156" Dia.
The only change was the testing of the OEM replacement valve.
(I need to clean up the test descriptions)
I am building the Peek check/Poppet seals now, to replace the OEM Original valve parts, along with the adjustable inlet check holes.
I am working on a system that use set screws for adjustment of the inlet check valve holes, and I am getting faster on the tear downs.........LoL
The I test was the same as the H Test, this replacement valve had the OEM .058"/.136" holes and all the rest of air passageways were .156" Dia.
The only change was the testing of the OEM replacement valve.
(I need to clean up the test descriptions)
I am building the Peek check/Poppet seals now, to replace the OEM Original valve parts, along with the adjustable inlet check holes.
I am working on a system that use set screws for adjustment of the inlet check valve holes, and I am getting faster on the tear downs.........LoL
Upvote 0
Tons of these refurb pumpers being dumped at PA. Lots of 1 and 2 star reviews, looks like a tinkerers dream rifle.
Upvote 0
Here is some more tests, same test format as all the above tests.
Test L1---- L2--L3--L4
1= 272 - 252-232-295
2= 351 - 377-354-433
3= 436 - 426-429-439
4= 482 - 465-459-457
5= 511 - 495-482-495
6= 541 - 531-501-511
7= 577 - 567-565-544
8= 593 - 583-705-611
9= 639 - 597-761-757
10= 662- 613-823-800
11= 688- 626-836-849
12= 754- 643-866*-853
13= ------651-900*-870*
14= ------661-------915*
15= ------672-------948*
* = air retained in valve after shot, don't know why, never had any air left before.
(L1 test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and Peek poppet, .145" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .135" Dia x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.145",
OEM valve spring and Valve stem length .180" from rear of valve,
Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring,
airways opened up to .145" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
No air left after any shot.
(L2 test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and Peek poppet, .156" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .145" Dia x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.156"
OEM valve spring and Valve stem length .180" from rear of valve,
Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring,
airways opened up to .156" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
No air left after any shot.
(L3 test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and Peek poppet, .145" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .135" Dia x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.145"
OEM valve spring and Valve stem length .375" from rear of valve,
Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring,
airways opened up to .145" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
*Air left after shot.
(L4 test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and Peek poppet, .156" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .145" Dia x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.156"
OEM valve spring and Valve stem length .375" from rear of valve,
Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring,
airways opened up to .156" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
*Air left after shot.
Your thoughts and suggestions..........
Tia,
Don
Summary of all the tests
Test--------F---G----H--H-1----I-----J----K----L1---L2----L3---L4
1 pump= 269-262--252-236=242=223=242=272=252=232=295
2 pumps= 393-377--305-367=255=357=380=351=377=354=433
3 pumps= 452-390--383-449=380=452=456=436=426=429=439
4 pumps= 479-436--416-495=479=508=511=482=465=459=457
5 pumps= 538-488--449-511=528=515=531=511=495=482=495
6 pumps= 623-498--524-574=531=528=554=541=531=501=511
7 pumps= 646-639--567-597=501=538=561=577=567=565=544
8 pumps= 652-754--600-613=495=570=590=593=583=705=611
9 pumps= 708-810--633-757=501=577=623=639=597=761=757
10 pumps= 728-833-690-813=501=603=652=662=613=823=800
11 pumps= 744-833-711-856=501=620=666=688=626=836=849
12 pumps= 770-833-754-869=501=643=688=754=643=866*=853
13 pumps= 770-833-801------------898=603--------651=900*=870*
14 pumps= --------------------------928=593--------661------=915*
15 pumps= --------------------------980=554--------672------=948*
There was no extra air left after any pump test, except those with the *.
(F Test)
Same test as all the previous tests,
the only item changed was the hammer weight to 533 gr, Hammer spring weight of 9-10#'s. Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia,.022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, 14 gr Crosman ammo. 2 complete turns on pump rod head,14 gr Crosman ammo, All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), air filter removed at valve inlet.
(G Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler. Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains. 14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler. Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains.
14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways opened up to .1562" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H-1 Test)
Oiled, no other changes
(I Test)
Installed the new OEM replacement valve, .058" inlet and .136" TP,
all air passageways OEM stock, Oiled, Same test format as all the above tests,
Alum Hammer weight at 533grains, Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long,
weight = 8-9#'s, 14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways were OEM dimensions.
(J Test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and poppet, .180" air inlet hole,
this seal had a .170" nose that fit into the inlet hole, this nose was flush at the top of valve, OEM spring. Valve stem lengthened to .375" from rear of valve, from the stock .180" length, Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring, airways opened up to .156" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
No air left after any shot, in any of the above tests.
(K test)
Used a valve with Delron air inlet seal and poppet, .140" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .135" x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.156"
OEM valve spring, Valve stem lengthened to .375" from rear of valve, from the stock .180" length, Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring, airways opened up to .156" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
No air left after any shot, in any of the above tests.
Test L1---- L2--L3--L4
1= 272 - 252-232-295
2= 351 - 377-354-433
3= 436 - 426-429-439
4= 482 - 465-459-457
5= 511 - 495-482-495
6= 541 - 531-501-511
7= 577 - 567-565-544
8= 593 - 583-705-611
9= 639 - 597-761-757
10= 662- 613-823-800
11= 688- 626-836-849
12= 754- 643-866*-853
13= ------651-900*-870*
14= ------661-------915*
15= ------672-------948*
* = air retained in valve after shot, don't know why, never had any air left before.
(L1 test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and Peek poppet, .145" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .135" Dia x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.145",
OEM valve spring and Valve stem length .180" from rear of valve,
Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring,
airways opened up to .145" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
No air left after any shot.
(L2 test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and Peek poppet, .156" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .145" Dia x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.156"
OEM valve spring and Valve stem length .180" from rear of valve,
Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring,
airways opened up to .156" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
No air left after any shot.
(L3 test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and Peek poppet, .145" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .135" Dia x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.145"
OEM valve spring and Valve stem length .375" from rear of valve,
Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring,
airways opened up to .145" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
*Air left after shot.
(L4 test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and Peek poppet, .156" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .145" Dia x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.156"
OEM valve spring and Valve stem length .375" from rear of valve,
Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring,
airways opened up to .156" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
*Air left after shot.
Your thoughts and suggestions..........
Tia,
Don
Summary of all the tests
Test--------F---G----H--H-1----I-----J----K----L1---L2----L3---L4
1 pump= 269-262--252-236=242=223=242=272=252=232=295
2 pumps= 393-377--305-367=255=357=380=351=377=354=433
3 pumps= 452-390--383-449=380=452=456=436=426=429=439
4 pumps= 479-436--416-495=479=508=511=482=465=459=457
5 pumps= 538-488--449-511=528=515=531=511=495=482=495
6 pumps= 623-498--524-574=531=528=554=541=531=501=511
7 pumps= 646-639--567-597=501=538=561=577=567=565=544
8 pumps= 652-754--600-613=495=570=590=593=583=705=611
9 pumps= 708-810--633-757=501=577=623=639=597=761=757
10 pumps= 728-833-690-813=501=603=652=662=613=823=800
11 pumps= 744-833-711-856=501=620=666=688=626=836=849
12 pumps= 770-833-754-869=501=643=688=754=643=866*=853
13 pumps= 770-833-801------------898=603--------651=900*=870*
14 pumps= --------------------------928=593--------661------=915*
15 pumps= --------------------------980=554--------672------=948*
There was no extra air left after any pump test, except those with the *.
(F Test)
Same test as all the previous tests,
the only item changed was the hammer weight to 533 gr, Hammer spring weight of 9-10#'s. Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia,.022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, 14 gr Crosman ammo. 2 complete turns on pump rod head,14 gr Crosman ammo, All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), air filter removed at valve inlet.
(G Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler. Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains. 14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was lengthen the pump rod head to maximum distance, to not block the air inlet hole, and oiled the wiper seal oiler. Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, weight = 8-9#'s, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia, .022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, Alum Hammer weight at 533grains.
14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways opened up to .1562" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(H-1 Test)
Oiled, no other changes
(I Test)
Installed the new OEM replacement valve, .058" inlet and .136" TP,
all air passageways OEM stock, Oiled, Same test format as all the above tests,
Alum Hammer weight at 533grains, Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long,
weight = 8-9#'s, 14 gr Crosman ammo. All air passageways were OEM dimensions.
(J Test)
Used a valve with Peek air inlet seal and poppet, .180" air inlet hole,
this seal had a .170" nose that fit into the inlet hole, this nose was flush at the top of valve, OEM spring. Valve stem lengthened to .375" from rear of valve, from the stock .180" length, Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring, airways opened up to .156" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
No air left after any shot, in any of the above tests.
(K test)
Used a valve with Delron air inlet seal and poppet, .140" air inlet hole,
this air check seal had a .135" x .370" long nose that fit into the inlet hole,
this nose was flush at the face of the valve. TP hole =.156"
OEM valve spring, Valve stem lengthened to .375" from rear of valve, from the stock .180" length, Same test format as above tests, Alum Hammer, Flat wire hammer spring, airways opened up to .156" Dia. 14gr Crosman ammo.
No air left after any shot, in any of the above tests.
Upvote 0
Buck rail moderators make the .22 silent. Before that popped a little loud. Now the neighbors don't even know.
Upvote 0
Dragonfly heads up!
This morning while testing moderators this happened. The part that flew off was under considerable stress as I was at the bottom of a pumping stroke. It left the vicinity at low Mach number. I'm glad it didn't hit me in the eye. There was zero warning.
www.airgunnation.com Upvote 0
There is a little left right slop when pumping but it doesn't feel like its going to break. But it would be nicer without it.
Upvote 0