Idea for an "Ultimate PCP Competition"

[balver]

Hey folks. I'm an airgun enthusiast who has very little shooting experience, and an airgun forum enthusiast who has logged onto AGN every day for three and a half years. I've read with interest stories regarding airgun competitions and which brand of rifle was used by those that took the top spots. Often stated is the question of whether it was the "arrow or the Indian." This got me to wondering how those variables could be accounted for in a competition between top shooters. Please forgive my naivete and let me know if you think my idea has any merit at all. Here goes. I propose a competion of five to 10 competitors shooting rifles at 100 yards, each using the same rifle. Shooters to be chosen from among the high finishers at current large events. Invite all manufacturers to submit one stock rifle, tuned by someone in their company to shoot the projectile of their choice. Maybe have the same scope on each rifle, and also let each manufacturer glean/sort enough projectiles to fully cover sight-ins and competion shooting. Allow each shooter enough time/shots to familiarize themselves with the platform, then on to competition shooting. Repeat for each brand of rifle. I'm sure there are a host of reasons that this idea won't work, but I'm curious what this community thinks. How to score such an event is way above my pay grade, but I would be interested to see who would prevail and which rifle posted the overall highest score. Maybe AGN could sponsor? Also, any attempts to name such a shooting event the Balver Cup are pure conjecture.

 

[Florida_Man]

This would be dependent on the person hosting it to come up with the capital. It’s all about the money. Shooters are sponsored and that comes with an agreement with what they should be using. The almighty dollar. For that reason you’ll be hard pressed to get the top shooters to participate

 

[MLE]

It’s feasible, but like Florida Man said, there’s a major roadblock.

At shooting competitions, it’s not just the shooters competing against one another, but the manufacturers as well. If a Panthera shooter beats an Epoch shooter, then FX sells more Pantheras. An ambitious new manufacturer wants to make a name for themselves? They cough up the money to sponsor and hope for a long shot win, which would profoundly boost sales. But if everyone is shooting the same gun, then consumers have no gauge for the superior product. There’s no reason for FX, say, to compete against itself. It would dilute the reward and disincentivize the sponsor. It’s the same with any sport.

That said, with enough capital all things are possible.

 

[Motorhead]

INDIAN #1 shooting a very good Bow / Arrow combo

 

[Arzrover]

If you peruse the American Airgunner shows, you'll see at least 1 that is in that very format. I watched them film a portion of it in Arkansas and it was entertaining. A lot of pressure on the shooters though...
Bob

 

[balver]

If you peruse the American Airgunner shows, you'll see at least 1 that is in that very format. I watched them film a portion of it in Arkansas and it was entertaining. A lot of pressure on the shooters though...
Bob

Bob, thanks for bringing up that show, it was really interesting to watch. I can see that I was not clear in my opening post. My idea was that each competitor would shoot the same exact rifle. Maybe sounds silly, but I envisioned one rifle of each submitted brand, shot as-tuned, no adjustments. The skill of the shooter would be front and center as i see it.

 

[thomasair]

Kind of like “racing” the go karts at an amusement park. They are all “tuned” the same, right? Haha…not.

 

[balver]

Kind of like “racing” the go karts at an amusement park. They are all “tuned” the same, right? Haha…not.

I feel like I'm burying myself deeper here but let me try once more to clarify. Take for example a single, tuned Fx M3 and say, 1000 sorted pellets. Gather five shooters, pick an order for participation. With everyone shooting the same exact rifle (not five identical M3's, only one) with the same batch of ammo, wouldn't the results show who demonstrated the highest skill level that day? It does sound more complicated the more I think of all the variables. My original idea would be to introduce this procedure with different brands of rifles. You might have an overall "winner" or not. You might also have a rifle that scored the highest overall point total. Just seemed interesting to me. I appreciate all your thoughts on this.

 

[thomasair]

That would be far better than multiples of the same.

Plus…Having each shooter shoot 6 cards at different times and from different benches like established sanctioned benchrest matches would be the best.

 

[steve123]

Bal, the rifles would need to have adjustable cheek piece and LOP so it could be set up for each individual or the test would lose part of its validity.

Also the physicality is different for each individual so that needs to be considered.

One or a few of the individuals might be more familiar with a certain platform vs another giving them an advantage.

Each gun needs to be sighted in for each individual.

The list goes on...

I watched a competition based tv show last night that was silly yet entertaining. All competitors shooting the same guns BTW and most were previous national champions in different shooting sports.
One stage was shooting through flames and one guy was taller than the rest so they turned the flames up higher in a attempt to make it more fair for the others but the opposite happened. He missed all but one of the targets because he couldn't see them then when the Olympic Gold metal champion competitors turn came up the wind was blowing the flames sideways obscuring her view. The other two competitors had a slightly better view of the targets so of course they did better. Additionally on another stage it was obvious that one rifle hit 3" to the right and 6" high at the 100Y target because most of people were missing there.

 

[Arzrover]

I feel like I'm burying myself deeper here but let me try once more to clarify. Take for example a single, tuned Fx M3 and say, 1000 sorted pellets. Gather five shooters, pick an order for participation. With everyone shooting the same exact rifle (not five identical M3's, only one) with the same batch of ammo, wouldn't the results show who demonstrated the highest skill level that day? It does sound more complicated the more I think of all the variables. My original idea would be to introduce this procedure with different brands of rifles. You might have an overall "winner" or not. You might also have a rifle that scored the highest overall point total. Just seemed interesting to me. I appreciate all your thoughts on this.

The particular episode of American Airgunner I was referring to WAS with the same rifle at each stage for all competitors... just an fyi...

 

[beerthief]

I do not see this as a viable competition .

 

[balver]

The particular episode of American Airgunner I was referring to WAS with the same rifle at each stage for all competitors... just an fyi...

Thanks for the info, I thought it was the one with Joe Brancato and a few other notable shooters. I respectfully withdraw my idea.

 

[Arzrover]

Definitely some notable shooters but can't remember Joe being a part of it.

 

[ThomasT]

Hey folks. I'm an airgun enthusiast who has very little shooting experience, and an airgun forum enthusiast who has logged onto AGN every day for three and a half years. I've read with interest stories regarding airgun competitions and which brand of rifle was used by those that took the top spots. Often stated is the question of whether it was the "arrow or the Indian." This got me to wondering how those variables could be accounted for in a competition between top shooters. Please forgive my naivete and let me know if you think my idea has any merit at all. Here goes. I propose a competion of five to 10 competitors shooting rifles at 100 yards, each using the same rifle. Shooters to be chosen from among the high finishers at current large events. Invite all manufacturers to submit one stock rifle, tuned by someone in their company to shoot the projectile of their choice. Maybe have the same scope on each rifle, and also let each manufacturer glean/sort enough projectiles to fully cover sight-ins and competion shooting. Allow each shooter enough time/shots to familiarize themselves with the platform, then on to competition shooting. Repeat for each brand of rifle. I'm sure there are a host of reasons that this idea won't work, but I'm curious what this community thinks. How to score such an event is way above my pay grade, but I would be interested to see who would prevail and which rifle posted the overall highest score. Maybe AGN could sponsor? Also, any attempts to name such a shooting event the Balver Cup are pure conjecture.

Hello @balver

I like your idea . I do not think that "paid experts / sponsored shooter / factory expert" needs to be the person chosen to be the "Shooters" for you competition. In fact some "Top Shooters" from this Forum, to me, would be the better choice, and here is why: the Shooters that make up this Forum ( and other Forums ) represents the vast majority that purchase and shoot the various "Brands / Models" of PCP air rifles.

Break your competition into two events:
1) Have a "shoot off" among Forum members and pick the Top Ten with 2 to 4 "extras" for back up.
2) Let the Top Ten then compete as you have outlined.

"Average Airrifle Joe" member of the Forum would then have a pretty good idea of each Brand and Model of air rifle that was tested as to which one he would most likely purchase.

Good luck,
ThomasT