Illinois Law Question: Propelling .177 Cal. Pellets Over 700 FPS

Hello all,

This is my first post here, so I right off the bat, I just want to apologize in advance if this topic has been covered and resolved previously. But that having been said, if the answer is out there, I certainly haven't been able to find it. So without further ado, my question for fellow Illinois airgunners is as follows:

Given that Illinois law regulates all airguns as firearms, save for those which "expel a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter, or which have a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second, or which expel breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors," does the act of expelling a pellet from a .177 caliber airgun at a velocity greater than 700 feet per second constitute discharging a firearm insofar as state law is concerned?

I understand that for the purposes of purchase/sale/transfer, it is well evidenced that since a change in the law which took effect in 2012, .177 caliber pellet guns with maximum velocities over 700 feet per second are no longer being treated as firearms by most retailers and agree that this does seem consistent with the letter of the law as it currently stands insofar as these airguns, though specifically designed and marketed to expel non-globular projectiles (pellets), are also equally capable of expelling commonly available globular projectiles (4.5mm BBs) without any modification required, and therefore should rightly qualify for this exemption.

However, when it comes to actually using this class of pellet guns (.177 cal. & >700 FPS) in practice, things get much more confusing to me. Specifically, I am unclear as to whether it would be legal for me to actually shoot pellets from them on my own property (against a safe backstop, of course), or whether doing so would constitute discharging a firearm, which, based on local ordinances, is not something that I can legally do in my basement or backyard.

This uncertainty stems entirely from the use of the word "globular" in the above cited law, which seems to specify that in order to be exempt from regulation as a firearm, a .177 caliber pellet gun with a maximum velocity of over 700 feet per second can only legally be used to discharge 4.5mm BBs, which of course negates any advantages of having a pellet gun to begin with in terms of increased accuracy gained from spin-stabilizing an oblong (non-globular) projectile. This, then, would seem to imply that, since pellets, unlike BBs, are not globular projectiles, that when loaded with a pellet, such an airgun would cease to qualify for the above exemption and thus become a firearm for at least the purposes of the specific subsequent discharge of the pellet in question.

The only tenable counterargument to this which I can think up is that, since loading/discharging pellets does not require any modification of the airgun, and that therefore, at all times--including while loaded with or actively discharging a pellet at speeds in excess of 700 feet per second--a .177 caliber airgun remains mechanically capable of expelling a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter, such a pellet gun should remain at all times exempt from being classified as a firearm. This seems to be at least a somewhat defensible interpretation, but I can also just as easily see someone having a strong case for pushing back against it by saying that under these circumstances, knowingly discharging pellets, rather than BBs, at velocities over 700 feet per second from a .177 caliber pellet gun would constitute criminal misuse of an airgun insofar as the user would be doing something other than the specific activity which provides legal pretense for his ability to acquire/own/use the product without it being subject to the myriad state-level restrictions which apply to actual firearms but not to airguns and that such behavior could therefore be seen in this light as a willful attempt to circumvent these state firearms laws.

So with all of that said, I am curious to know if any of you have wrestled with this issue and received any clarity from legal counsel or other authoritative sources that you would be willing to share. At the end of the day, all I am hoping to do is be able to shoot pellets out of a modestly powerful (>700 fps), rifled airgun in my backyard and basement without accidentally finding myself on the wrong side of the law by unknowingly engaging in activity that constitutes "discharging a firearm" as far as state law is concerned.

Any guidance on this subject would be welcome and appreciated; thank you in advance for your help!


 
My GUESS ( for what it's worth)

This seems like one of those "laws" hastily put together in a attempt to help law enforcement out, in certain circumstances.

Meaning, and in relation to you.

Shooting in your basement, safe backstop, bothering no one, any law enforcement officers who used this law would probably receive rebuke, where it to end in court.

It's designed so that should someone be acting in a dangerous manner with a pellet gun, then law enforcement has a set of written rules it can reference.

As you state, shops are openly selling pellet guns capable of discharging non " globular" at 700+, 

Good luck.
 
Well, I think the statute would have to be read carefully, and in full before coming to a decision on your question. The wording you included above suggests, by definition, that a .177 air rifle shooting over 700 fps is, by definition a firearm, thus making it subject to all relevant rules, laws and regulations. If so, and if the location of your home prohibits discharging firearms, well, welcome to the future. As is too often the case, we are sometimes our own worst enemy. Can we expect to develop air rifles that are in every way as effective, and potentially dangerous as a metallic cartridge rifle, and still be exempt from firearm restrictions? I think not. 
 
Several years ago I worked with a senator to try to get airguns removed from the FOID act altogether, and we couldn't even get the bill out of committee. Illinois politics right now has no stomach for passing gun or gun-related laws that are less restrictive. And so many activists are trying to hold our ground on firearms laws that it's hard to get airguns any real discussion time. This probably won't change until Illinoisans vote differently. Note - be careful not to go down the politics rabbit hole on this one!
 
As an attorney (not licensed in Illinois) and a lifelong airgun shooter, I believe that this wording is designed to exempt, the common, kid's BB gun from the definition of a firearm. The 700 fps limitation is about twice the velocity of a Red Ryder and likely deemed sufficiently generous to capture the various "toy" guns currently marketed. 

This statute is what we call "black letter law - it means what it says on its face. The fact that it is generally being ignored by retailers and the airgun shooting community is of no legal consequence. Such a reasonable interpretation can only be made by statutory amendment (or an attendant administrative regulation) from your state legislature or by a published opinion of a Court of competent jurisdiction where the question arises in an actual case.

So if a neighbor files a complaint that you are shooting a pellet gun in your own backyard, you could be convicted and have your pet rifle confiscated as well as the criminal penalties prescribed for that degree of offence (misdemeanor, felony etc.). Personally, I don't think you would be prosecuted for shooting a pellet pusher in your own basement so long as you do not advertise the fact and there are no losses or injuries to persons or property as a result. I fact, I have a friend in Illinois who does just that in his basement. But it is not impossible.

This is JMO - not legal advice - and worth about exactly what you paid for it.




 
Federal laws and codes define what a “firearm” is. Federal law supercedes state and local laws. States cannot redefine what constitutes a firearm. U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions 

That said, states and localities can make laws regarding use of things shooting projectiles deemed dangerous.

It would seem as though IL is guilty of over-reach in their definition of firearms. I don’t think, given current political conditions there, I would want to challenge them..unless I just had a lot of money to waste on lawyers.
 
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In my opinion which probably means very little, is to move to another state! We are all in control of our own destiny should we choose to do what we enjoy. I made it a point in life to live where I could enjoy doing what I want to do. I have always researched local, and state laws regarding my hobby preferences before I settle in, and yes I have had to move when changes were made to laws that I did not approve of.
 
Federal laws and codes define what a “firearm” is. Federal law supercedes state and local laws. States cannot redefine what constitutes a firearm. U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions 

That said, states and localities can make laws regarding use of things shooting projectiles deemed dangerous.

It would seem as though IL is guilty of over-reach in their definition of firearms. I don’t think, given current political conditions there, I would want to challenge them..unless I just had a lot of money to waste on lawyers.

Well, yes and no. A state or local municipality cannot modify the definition of a firearm for purposes of enforcing compliance with federal law, such as the transfer form we have to complete when buying a firearm as defined by federal law. But, a state can place restrictions on specific items. Slingshots, knives, arrows, etc. can be subject state or local legislation. And the state can choose to essentially mirror federal firearm laws, if it chooses. Whether the state chooses to make air rifles subject to firearm laws, or simply call it an air gun statute, it's easily done. As George Carlin said, "never underestimate the power of stupid people in large number".
 
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All,

I really appreciate the feedback so far. 

Just wanted to chime in and respond specifically to JW652: 

I greatly appreciate your perspective as someone who practices law, even if not in Illinois and just wanted to provide some additional context to see if it has any impact on your assessment. 

Specifically, I wanted to say that, though you would have absolutely no way of knowing this without being an Illinois resident when the most recent change to the statute took effect, it would not be correct in my opinion to say that the specific portion of the law which I cited "is generally being ignored by retailers."

In fact, by my observation, quite the opposite has been true in that retailers responded quickly and decisively following the change by amending their existing policies so as to no longer treat several classes of airgun as firearms for the purposes of purchase/sale and/or shipping, to include .177 caliber pellet guns over 700 fps.

To provide some context, prior to 2012, the law actually stated that an airgun had to be under .18 caliber AND below 700 fps to be exempt from classification as a firearm. 

Obviously, that created a situation where, by law, 6mm airsoft guns were rightly (by which I mean "in keeping with the letter of the law as it stood at that time") being subjected to treatment and regulation as firearms by sellers because their projectiles were over .18 inches in diameter, the absurdity of which eventually created enough momentum to effect a change to the current verbiage which exempts these classes of airgun by specifying that, where globular projectiles are concerned, EITHER <700 fps OR <.18 cal are sufficient conditions for satisfying the regulatory carve-out from state-level firearms regulation.

As mentioned above, when the law changed in this way, airgun sellers' behavior did, as well, more or less immediately and across the board. 

Prior to this time, big box stores had been requiring buyers show their Illinois-State-Police-issued Firearm Owners Identification Cards and verifying the validity of buyers' FOID numbers with the state police (either over the phone or via the ISP's website) before transacting airsoft guns, as well as pellet guns that were either over .18 cal or had maximum published velocities of over 700 fps, while online retailers like Pyramid Air would only ship these classes of airguns to FFLs within the state.

But once the new law went into effect, all of these major retailers changed their policies fairly quickly and stopped treating as firearms all airsoft guns under 700 fps, as well as all .177 caliber pellet guns, regardless of velocity. Specifically, big box stores started selling them over the counter without FOID checks and online retailers became willing to ship them directly to Illinois residents, instead of only to FFLs.

This sudden, sweeping, and uniform policy change across multiple large corporations, all seemingly in agreement that the new law exempted all .177 caliber pellet guns, regardless of velocity, from being classified as firearms, is what gave me reason to believe that the consensus, somehow well-substantiated reading of the law was in line with this conclusion that such airguns can be at the very least bought, sold, purchased, and owned (albeit not necessarily used with non-globular ammunition) free from any restrictions imposed on firearms by the state of Illinois.

That observation is what led me to wonder exactly what such a reading could be based on and in turn come up with the hypothesis that .177 cal pellet guns' ability to fire globular projectiles in the form of 4.5mm BBs without modification or resulting damage to the gun or denaturing of the projectile into a non-globular state would qualify them for the exemption even if they had maximum muzzle velocities in excess of 700 fps.

However, as covered in my first post, even accepting this hypothesis at face value leaves a very open question as to whether this exempted status can be voided, temporarily or permanently through actual usage by discharging non-globular projectiles from the pellet gun.

Regardless, I fully admit that my theory is nothing more than an uneducated best-guess but do feel like the fact that multiple large corporations were willing to change their policies as described in response to the new law gives the claim that .177 caliber pellet guns of all velocities are de-facto exempt at the state level from being regulated as firearms substantially more weight than if the same corporations were just continuing to behave exactly as they had before the law changed.

Curious to hear if this additional background/context makes any difference in your mind. Thanks again for taking the time to engage with my question.
 
Just to chime in. My hometown in Idaho considers discharging of an air rifle within the city limits, even on your own property the same as discharging a firearm, and the same consequences apply. And NO Pocatello is NOT liberal city by any means.

Also, Pocatello makes no exception for even the daisy red riders, though I doubt all, but an asshole neighbor would call the police if they saw you shooting tin can with your son with the Red Rider, if done in the same manner. A high power PCP would be a different story. Go outside the cities limits and unless otherwise posted, for safety reasons, go have fun, air and fire. Many small towns and cities in Idaho have these similar rules for safety reasons because of course, idiots making life difficult for the rest of us responsible people.

Lastly, I can’t remember a time when it was allowed to shoot a pellet / BB gun in Pocatello city limits.
 
Hey guys - with all respect, I don't believe that this Forum is a good vehicle for trying to untangle the messy hairball of interpreting legislative intent relating to airguns. As has been frequently stated here, there are many questions best left unasked and unanswered.

You may recall the a couple of months ago there was a guy posing as an interested airgunner asking questions about how airguns are regulated. He received good answers detailing DOT requirements, manufacturer responsibility, and etc, but was not satisfied. It soon became apparent that he had no specific issue in mind. His real question was whether or not there was an agency with overall jurisdiction over the regulation of the airgun industry as a whole. It was as if he was establishing a need for such a regulatory agency. Scary stuff for those of us who cherish the freedom we currently enjoy in the pursuit of our hobby.

That said, I would like to make a couple of final remarks. Please keep firmly in mind that having identified myself as an attorney was solely to establish the fact that I am familiar with some of the legal aspects of airgun ownership, but everything said here is my personal opinion and should not be misconstrued as legal opinion or advice. ... Whenever I attend the SHOT Show, one of the first things I do is visit the BATFE representatives with booths adjacent to the airgun booths. While the BAFTE has no direct jurisdiction over the airgun industry, their opinions and rulings can and do directly affect out sport. These rulings are made in the form of a 'Letter" issued in response to a specific question addressed by a Petitioner. Just as with SCOTUS the issues are cherrypicked and very narrowly construed. They apply only to the specific question in a particular case and do not apply, by analogy or otherwise, to any other fact situation. For example, several years ago there was a ruling made pertaining to paintball guns that airgunners were trying to apply to our sport. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Camels and moo cows are both even toed ungulates, but they are not the same animal.

.With that written opinion in hand, I repeatedly went from agent to agent asking if the same doctrine applied to airguns. In some cases the exact same issue relating to paintball guns could be observed in a displayed air rifle only two booths away from the BAFTE representative. Yet the agent would not get up from his chair and walk 50 feet to give me any advice at all. Never. The agents refused to get involved even though doing so could identify a violation of the law. In my mind this is a good thing. It means that no one is out to get us. And, do we really want to know? You can't un-ring that bell.

All the above explains my reasoning when discussing with the OP his conclusions about non-globular projectiles and the 700 fps limit.

Fortunately, the BAFTE has been, traditionally, pretty neutral and hands-off when it comes to airguns. Unfortunately, it appears that the new Agency Director is avowedly anti-gun. He openly acknowledges that he wants to outright ban some things and highly regulate others. Once again, do we want him to aim his sights at us?

Given the sea changes in modern airguns, it would be in our interests to tread lightly. Regulatory changes are coming. We still have some ability, through our actions, to mitigate these changes and how they are implemented. But the window is small and time is short. Cancel culture is upon us. We don't want to become a hashtag.

Amen






 
It's good to stay informed, but I believe it is definitely in our best interest to avoid any public inquiry about this, or to ask questions of politicians or regulators. Sometimes it's better to ask forgiveness than approval. Looks like the folks subject to the above Illinois law have lost their firearm exemption, and more of that will follow. But asking the wrong representatives how they feel about it, is like asking a dentist if you need a routine checkup, they know only one answer. 
 
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this is one of many reasons why I live in Alabama. There is a state law that forbids any municipality town etc. from restricting air gun use. Do you have to be smart though and not go out in the middle of the day in your front yard shooting at cans. I shoot my weapon in my backyard all the time. My neighbors know it and they don’t care. Alabama looks at it as a sport that can be enjoyed by parents and children it is also viewed as an avenue to teach children weapons safety at an early age that will carryover into adulthood. Hopefully all the liberals will move to those states who have these restrictive laws and we won’t have to worry about them down here in the south. Wish you all the best of luck.
 
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@Space_Monkey,

prior to 2012, the law actually stated that an airgun had to be under .18 caliber AND below 700 fps to be exempt from classification as a firearm.

Could you provide a link to the original law and to the changes that took effect in 2012?

It would be nice to read what you are asking us to speculate about.

Thx.

lbc_PSI,

Absolutely. Apologies for the omission on my part.

Prior to the 2012 amendment, the relevant portion of the law read that:









The 2012 amendment changed the law to its current, less restrictive form, which reads as follows:









The following link is to the actual bill that amended the law and shows both the original text and the new revised version insofar as the old text is the starting point and then the words removed by the bill are "struck-through" and the words added by the bill are underlinedhttps://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=097-0776

And then this link is to the new text only, exactly as it currently stands: https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapterID=39

Hope this helps.
 
Oh wow! you can only shoot 177 round balls? And people say California is bad, this is worse than UK laws!

Maybe. I guess the real question is, what is the nature of the Illinois firearms law? This amendment doesn't prohibit owning standard and high power air rifles, it just classifies them as firearms. That could be a minor annoyance, or a huge issue. Assuming a Chicago influence, I'm afraid it's more the latter. Hopefully, it can be changed, but these things are typically easier to do, than to undo. Our NC gun laws are not terribly restrictive, but it is usually prohibited to discharge firearms in town. So, this would make my back yard shooting illegal. 
 
Hey, elh0102, Illinois has a little thing called FOID, Firearms Owners ID Card. Gotta have it to purchase, use, own or even handle a firearms. This includes ammo!

Also you must purchase through a Federal & State licensed firearms dealer. Personal sales are required to go through these dealers. Incidentally it takes about 6 months to get A FOID card.

I avoid at all costs. Gun transfers usually run between $20-$30,

Another reason to bolt the State!