I'm calling BullS×÷T on Artillery Hold

*chuckle*.. Your Hate has made you strong JoeWayneRhea. Perhaps I have been very lucky, the first "serious" air rifle I owned was a RWS 48 back in the 1980s. I put so much money into it, it seemed a waste not to master it. For it's time period, it was considered a rather brutal recoil-heavy air rifle. Thousands of pellets were pushed through it, and good technique was re-enforced. Absolute consistency was rewarded by consistent grouping, but vary one small element, and groups would scatter like doves sighting a hawk. It was easy go through hundreds of pellets in a day, no tanks to fill, no pumps (internal or external) to fuss with, just cock and shoot. It does remain frustrating how an innocent scope must periodically be sacrificed to the springer God, as a metal and tears sacrifice. However, I find pumping my PCP rifles an unwanted break from shooting as well. A lot of springer guys are operating on a constrained budget; they don't have 500 for a PCP, 300 for a tank, and a refill fee for their tank every weekend. They can purchase a basic springer for 250 bucks and have a lot of fun. And probably another factor is the pride in mastering something which is not easy. As a disclaimer, I shoot CO2, pumpers, springers and PCP. If time is limited, the springer gets grabbed first for a few fun shots. It always gives me a smile when everything comes together with a springer; PCP rifles seem to almost shoot themselves, and takes some joy out of shooting. All this said, if putting food on the table was life or death, a PCP would be put to task. 
 
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I guess the key is consistency, rather than the exact hold.

I was shooting my new Summit NP2 (20 FPE .22) last night. Had it all zeroed-in at 10 yards, seated. Held it tight to my shoulder, but a loose grip and cheek weld, resting on my forearm, which was on my forward knee. Pretty repeatable. (considering the gun's not broken in, by a long shot)

Stood up to shoot offhand. The group was still reasonably tight, but POI was down by an inch or more.

The lesson I take from that is that a light, powerful gun is more hold-sensitive than a heavy powerful gun (based on comparison to my TX200, when it was stock) or a light, low-power spring gun, like you said. It makes me appreciate the weight of my TX200. Remember how often I mentioned it as a drawback when I first got it? Now that I know from experience that the weight is necessary to reduce hold-sensitivity, I'm totally OK with it, and don't even covet a Pro Sport (much) any more.

But you're right that some springers don't shoot well no matter HOW consistently they're held. I'm thinking of my old Crosman Raven. I bet that coulda been a sweet gun, with a tune.

There's another possibility: Maybe you forgot how to shoot regular springers, having been spoiled by your FWB. ;)
 
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Nay haven't forgotten. Just honestly don't enjoy the ones that are so hard to shoot straight is all .. I'm not a really good springer shooter like some , but if it'll shoot straight I can usually tell it . Most the over powered guns we have are the Walmart guns . Damn few of those shoot well . And the one or two that will , shoot well with most any hold .
And yes I'm spoiled
 
"JoeWayneRhea"I am trying like HELL to figure out a way to duplicate that grey and black laminated look with Beech . That is one badass stock on the laminated FX rifles !!!
Good luck. Maybe if you stain/painted all the faux grain on and then put a clear coat or 15 over it. Take too much time though. I have yet to own any laminate gun but I've held and looked at a few. I'm convinced they are epoxy infused ... like a lot of wood knife handles are. It's still wood but its got a lot of plastic in it. Which is good I think as it makes the object hard and scratch resistant. 
 
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I have got to chime in on this one...
Accuracy isn't everything...it's the only thing.....(I've lost count of all the various airguns I've owned since 1980,R1s,8s,7s,RWSs,124s etc.)
Only the FWB124 is not hold sensitive....every single one of the break barreled springers needed me to hold my tongue just right when I pulled the trigger to achieve inconsistent mediocre results that varied day to day...(Poi shifts, resight ins etc.)
NOW I own 5 FWB300s all hotrodded to 700fps +/- 20fps....there is no special holding or coddling or "tongue just right hold"...at 25 yds it's pellet on pellet boring, today, yesterday and tomorrow...45acp cases at 50yds every shot...no mysteries, magic or holding voodoo.
If I miss it's me...not a quest sorting out my special hold, my gun or scope or lube or tune....
Therein lies the enjoyment of shooting not figuring out the equipment or it's peculiar mystery...
 
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Hi 10X,

What is your kit to upgrade the power? preload washers?

Had any luck with the Diana 54/56?

I'm resonating with this topic. I have a crosman nitro venom which seems quite hold sensitive and not conducive to practicing any kind of follow through as it jumps out of my artillery hold. The nitro piston and report are apparently quiet based on recordings from 10 yards, but I wear hearing protectors to shoot because the whack eminating from the stock seems really loud for a supposedly quiet gun. Paper doesn't really need 20 ft/lbs of whack. The experience is not really what I'm looking for.
 
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There are about a bazillion different airgun models and manufacturers these days. You'd think one of them would do something different, like maybe making a light weight recoilless springer. The RWS54 is still in production but heavy and powerful. How about something more like the HW30/50 power that's easy to handle and shoot? If a pistol can do it, one would think a rifle could too.
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Nice. I guess that brings up how hard is the mod really? One needs a preload spring, a rod and some guides. Then the only magic is how to remate the stuff between the action and stock when it wasn't designed around it, right? The underlevel especially might be good, because you probably have more length to play with to counter the cocking forces. I saw a cheap chinese used one sitting around the local shop. Maybe it's time for some frankengun action on it. Maybe some hackers making a decent DIY mod could get someone interested in production.
 
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