So I purchased some hades in .177 for my Impact with 700mm barrel and 700cc bottle. They did not like the higher (880-900) speeds in my gun so I ended up getting down to 600fps for them to be good at 22 yards and kinda decent at 50 yards. Where I ended up I am using 4 bar per magazine. So starting at 250 bar and ending at second reg of 80 bar that would calculate out to 1445 shots per fill. That is almost 3 tins of pellets. Below are the groups at 22 and 50 yards as well as a picture of the gun.
Impact M3 .177 insane shot count with Hades and easy to turn up for slugs
- Thread starter jcdavis1281
- Start date
I’ve been playing with a “backyard target tune” myself…
I dropped the power of my Weihrauch HW110 .22 from 895fps with 15.89g pellets down to 755fps with 14.66g pellets. The gun is almost silent with this tune.
Shot count improved from 42 to 130!! I kid you not, it “falls off the reg” (around shot 100) by slightly increasing velocity above 755 and then very gradually falls back down. I shot 13 dime sized 10-shot groups at 35 yards (3 of the groups were actually at 41 yards) - with only about 12 pellets outside a dime - shooting H&N FTTs straight from the tin.
I fill to the max 200 bar and shoot down to 60 bar.
I can’t stop shooting it (love the trigger on the HW110). All my other rifles (FX, RTI, Daystate, etc) are jealous of it now, lol.
I dropped the power of my Weihrauch HW110 .22 from 895fps with 15.89g pellets down to 755fps with 14.66g pellets. The gun is almost silent with this tune.
Shot count improved from 42 to 130!! I kid you not, it “falls off the reg” (around shot 100) by slightly increasing velocity above 755 and then very gradually falls back down. I shot 13 dime sized 10-shot groups at 35 yards (3 of the groups were actually at 41 yards) - with only about 12 pellets outside a dime - shooting H&N FTTs straight from the tin.
I fill to the max 200 bar and shoot down to 60 bar.
I can’t stop shooting it (love the trigger on the HW110). All my other rifles (FX, RTI, Daystate, etc) are jealous of it now, lol.
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Dang! I was happy with 140 shots from my .25 cal Impact. Yeah, I’m still happy but this would be great shooting group after group after group! I only have a 480cc bottle and thought that was big…
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80 bars is way too low, you need minimum 90 bars but better to set the reg at 100 bars for good accuracy.
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Why? is this an Impact thing?
Mostly curious because another FX'r commented on one of my posts that the reg was too low for the low power I was going for. Does accuracy somehow go south with Impacts if the reg is too low? Or are the Impacter's just so conditioned to seeing the FX BIG THREE on YouTube talk about high reg pressures being awesome that they can't imagine a low reg pressure being a good thing?
Unless it's an Impact-specific concept I just can't understand what could be wrong with a low reg pressure when low fpe is desired. And I ask this coming from the most accurate sub 20fpe pcp that I've ever shot operating within a pressure of 1450-1250psi.
A low regulator pressure for a low power tune means many more shots per fill, simply b/c you can keep shooting down to that reg pressure. It also should equate to less air used per shot, which means a more docile shot cycle, assuming everything is set up so you're not overdriving the valve.
Please explain.
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Ok, I may turn the reg up to see if it helps. If it does not help I can always turn it back down.
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Let me compare the tuning concept to cars. The idea is to close the valve before the pellet leave the muzzle or reach the desired speed and let go of the gas pedal before the finish line of 1/4 mile.
Compare reg pressure to horse power, a low horse power car say 80 hp can get you to 60mph comfortably before 1/4 mile line. However, try to get it to 100mph and let go the gas pedal before 1/4 line might be a little rough. A higher horse power car say 150 horse power can comfortably get to 100mph before 1/4 mile end. Sure, the 80 HP car gets more MPG but what good is MPG when you can't get to where you want? Shorter the barrel or drag strip the more horse power you need to get to the speed you want.
With that being said, do you want to cruise around in a civic with great mpg slowly or do you want the hellcat power at low MPG? It's all up to you! There obviously is more to it but the concept is the same. interesting high reg doesn't alway mean bad shot count.
Personally I'll trade 1 million inaccurate shots for just 100 accurate shots.
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I can easily get these pellets to 1,000fps on 80 bar. Do you still think I need to bump it to 100 bar?
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The impact is a high power gun so the hammer is heavier and spring is stronger than a lower powered gun like Dreamliner with light hammer weight. If the reg is too low then the hammer would open the valve for too long then the muzzle blast will destabilize the projectile. If you really want to shoot as low as 600fps then try crank the valve knob down on your 1000fps setting till you get to 920fps with the 10.3 grain pellets. It might work even at 80 bars thanks to the huge plenum and the valve return spring.
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The air arms I have shot great at 880 just not the hades. Not sure why I had to turn them down so low.
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I do plan to try some 12.5 and 15 slugs at some point and might have to turn the reg up for them.
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177 is very small bore so very little surface area for the air to push. For slugs I usually set my reg to 150 and forget it, cool part of 150 bars is at lower hammer spring setting the power drops off very fast. On my crown I have to set my reg at 150 bars to get my 177 pellets to shoot 700fps but it has a short barrel. For the 15 grain I would say minimum 140 bars for the reg, they are harder to push than you think.
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Okay, I read that about 5 times and it still struggling to find the logic. OP came back and commented that 80bar reg pressure gets his desired projectile over 1000fps, which further reinforces my mindset with reg pressures. I tend to work towards using the lowest reg pressure possible to achieve the desired power output with the chosen projectile.
I understand a high reg pressure for a high power output. I don't understand how a low reg pressure for a low power output is a bad thing, as long as the gun is agreeable to it. Might have to not hit the valve as hard to avoid the turbulence of too much air that you alluded to (lighter hammer or lighter hammer spring) but those are both pros if the desired outcome is low power output. Less hammer mass flying around and less violent impact of the hammer on the valve all works towards more docile shot cycle.
I like getting the most shots out of possible out of my air, and I REALLY like a calm shot cycle, especially if I'm shooting low power stuff.
OP is talking about being happy with the accuracy of a 600fps .177 and you're telling him to crank up the reg pressure. I'm struggling with that recommendation.
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The reason behind the 600fps setting is because the couldn't get the hades to shoot well faster than that.
Reg pressure is what's holding the valve close so if the reg is low then the heavier Impact hammer would open it a bit too long. Fortunately with the impact you can turn down the valve return to see if that would help.
I agree that the calm low power shooting is great with lower reg but for that to happen you need corresponding light hammer also. My dreamline with the light hammer shooting 10 FPE is practically motionless and spooky quiet. Impact's hammer weight good amount heavier so not really meant to be used with really low reg. 80 bars isn't crazy low for 700mm barrel so it is also possible OP just needs to crank down the valve. Impact will never be as calm as the dreamline by design, if you want calm low power shooting then get the dreamline because it's so awesome at low power, right tool for the job.
However, with higher reg with takes more pressure or heavier hammer to open then don't really need to really crank down on the valve return spring, low reg and cranked down valve return make it impossible to go higher in power when OP wants to shoot slugs. 100 bars is low for impact and it is still very calm and quiet compare to my 75 FPE impact. LOL
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I was not originally going for low power/high shot count but that is where the hades ended up shooting good and I am happy with that. The post was about the shot count I ended up at, but I am always open for suggestions and can easily set the gun back to this if I do not like what the suggestions do for it. When I want to shoot faster I will open the valve back up and shoot the air arms 10.34s at 880 for 525 shots on a fill. The air arms did good at that speed as did the Crosman 10.5s. I am not sure why the hades did not.
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I have my .177 Impact MKII reg set to 60 bars - getting 150-220 shots with great accuracy, but I need more shots.
Settings
Reg : 60bar
Valve adjuster : Min (1st line)
Hammer spring : adjusted to mid-Low
Hammer wheel : Can be used from Min to Max
My hammer spring adjustment has been set to low. This tune works well for both 177 and 22. At the MIN setting on the wheel, 10gr pellets are about 915, while turning it up to 2-3 enables me to shoot .22 15-18 gr at 900fps.
It is a tune that works for both calibers
The only thing I want to do is increase that shot count to 300-400
@jcdavis1281 can you share your tune - if I can get even 300-350 shots from my 480cc bottle, it'll be great!
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Only sure shot way to get super high shot count is to drop your power/speed to 600-700 fps. In UK those guys are shooting 177 at sub 12 or 10.3 grain pellet at 700 fps for over 300-400 shots from a standard impact.
EDIT: personally I don't see the point of hundreds of shots. My dreamtac compact 177 with 300mm barrel shooting at 10 FPE gets about 3 mags or 90 shots from 220 bar fill on a 170cc tube, at 8 FPE I get 4 mags or 120 shots. Then double that with a 300cc bottle with 250 bar fill. I don't shoot that many shots a sitting and always check my gauges before shooting. BTW that's with 115 bar reg pressure.
With 480cc bottle at 250 bar fill AND 600mm or longer barrel shooting sub 12 should get you over 400-450 shots if that's your thing.
EDIT: personally I don't see the point of hundreds of shots. My dreamtac compact 177 with 300mm barrel shooting at 10 FPE gets about 3 mags or 90 shots from 220 bar fill on a 170cc tube, at 8 FPE I get 4 mags or 120 shots. Then double that with a 300cc bottle with 250 bar fill. I don't shoot that many shots a sitting and always check my gauges before shooting. BTW that's with 115 bar reg pressure.
With 480cc bottle at 250 bar fill AND 600mm or longer barrel shooting sub 12 should get you over 400-450 shots if that's your thing.
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