FX Impact M3 ... POI change journey.

[wooferocau]

Hi all,
I am a LONG time shooter ( powder burners ) form way back ..my passion is precision and ELR. I am lucky to own a big property and have several ranges set up out to 3500mtrs to which myself an friends often shoot.

I have always had a soft spot for airguns , dating way back.
Several months ago i decided on a PCP..in this case it was the FX M3 Impact in 22cal. After watch many a video on the net and reading endless rave reviews and feedback from users i was expecting great thins from it.
Long story short........it CAN be a very accurate rifle....i have shot pellets and slugs of many types and weights. The rifle has gone from standard trim to fully modified with many aftermarket accessories.
As i previously stated. The rifle can sure shoot some very impressive groups...both in standard trim and modified...BUT!!! ..AND A BIG BUT!!! the biggest issue i have is variations with "Point Of Impact change" ....
Its one thing to shoot a group, but it would be nice to have at a constant point of aim instead of wandering .
As well as my FX , 2 close friends also have M3,s ...one bog standard and one with several aftermarket accessories. Sadly. They also suffer from the POI change.

At this point i would of put several thousand slugs and pellets downrange and spent many many hours with variations of tuning , and custom mods including all sorts of attempts to improve the very ordinary barrel /liner implementation put forward by FX.. All to no avail.

I feel that many of the online video's and reviews ONLY show the best of...but don't show the real world actual performance. I also think many FX owners potentially ignore, or don't want to acknowledge the shortcomings of the FX platform..

I am all ears to ANY recommendations from anybody that has an FX that is 100% reliable and dependable in regards to POI.

Oh.. i completely understand the the few initial shots to "wake up" an n FX......but after the initial first few shots POI should NOT be an issue.

I would love to find a 100% solution to this issue, but i am slowly residing to the fact that this might be pertinent to the design and overall operation of the FX ...which is why after much much searching and reading i have seen more and more feedback from frustrated FX owners and ex owners..

Attached a some pics of my centre fire rifles i use for ELR and my Impact

...

 

[GA_LeadHead]

So does my Daystate, my Benjamins, my Air Venturis, etc from time to time. A few seconds of tweaking and I'm right back to zero. These are AIR rifles.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

 

[wooferocau]

So does my Daystate, my Benjamins, my Air Venturis, etc from time to time. A few seconds of tweaking and I'm right back to zero. These are AIR rifles.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

During a shooting session?
So if you fire say a 10 rnd group ...then pause...another 10rnd group....pause and so on...say over a spread of 50 shots, the POI will remin fairly constant?

Cause that is NOT what happens with my FX..

 

[wooferocau]

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Thanks..

 

[GA_LeadHead]

During a shooting session?
So if you fire say a 10 rnd group ...then pause...another 10rnd group....pause and so on...say over a spread of 50 shots, the POI will remin fairly constant?

Cause that is NOT what happens with my FX..

Mine absolutely remains consistent during the same session. I only have to tweak my zero if it sits a long time, or if the atmospheric/weather conditions are radically different. Something is wrong if yours is having a POI issues during the same session. There are a LOT of things to consider. I'm sure this thread will get some traction and will get feedback from guys much more knowledgeable than myself.
I do know that your regulator (when new or rebuilt) takes a while to settle in. That 'could' be one thing.
Barrel could be loose. Check barrel screws. One in back. Then tensioning screws in front of the block, then the liner retaining nut at the end of the barrel.
Could be a badly fouled liner and needs a cleaning.
Could be a bad breech O-Ring.
Could be clipping if you are using a moderator.
Could be something else, but if yours is changing POI as you state, something is wrong.
.....but it is fixable. Let's work the problem. The guys on here are GREAT at figuring this stuff out.

 

[wooferocau]

no probs,,

Some more info..
Currently the barrel config is,,

STD liner with carbon sleeve...permanently bonded. FX tensioning carbon sleeve with internal spacers and o rings with 2nd carbon 25x20 machined to fit over the FX sleeve.. ...not using it as a tensioning setup as i had worse results when in tension
No moderator...Illegal here in Aus..
Barrel cleaned.

Also have bog standard factory barrel setup ... Same results as with the modded setup.

Using NSA 27.5 Slugs ...218" at circa 980fps... These will produce genuine 1/2moa at 100yds.. Also shoot very well out at 300yds..
1st reg at 180/ 2nd 140 Hammer @ 5...... Macro circa 3 ish..front valve circa line 3

As i have said...group size is NOT an issue....just POI change..

 

[wooferocau]

Groups at 100 , 150 and 350yds...

 

[Rlb40x]

I’m still tuning my M3 and haven’t had it long, but I have a Dreamline tac in 25 that can set for months and still bust a starling on the first shot at 80-100 yds.
What you describe would suck, not being confident in where she is going to hit.
After many years of rimfire benchrest, I’m thinking when some zero their guns they are doing so in light wind and don’t realize it until they shoot a different direction.
When I put flags out, they will slightly turn and you can’t see or feel anything. They are enough to move a 40gr rimfire bullet a bit and more so with an air gun.
My 50 and 100 yd range are down in a dished out valley and it causes some strange wind.

 

[Stone02]

@wooferocau

You don't mention using a borescope to check bore condition after cleaning.

Clean patches aren't a substitute.

 

[GA_LeadHead]

Those are GREAT groups!
If it's only poi shift it would have to be (in what little I can guess), either something going on with the scope or mount or something to do with the barrel/liner loosening/moving.
That's frustrating for a rifle that accurate. I wish I could shoot groups that well at those ranges.

Question. What range did you zero the rifle? POI shifting at that range?

 

[Vetmx]

It’s always interesting how a future Impact owner does his research and is absolutely convinced this is his next gun. Then after owning one he finally pays attention to the negatives while doing research. The info was always out there. Not a mystery. I have real barrels on two impacts and still deal with POI changes. But I have a pellet only Impact and that crazy thing has been spot on for way longer than normal. It’s just how it is. Like having a hot rod and complaining about bad gas mileage.

 

[Vetmx]

On another note. I always wonder just how accurate guys guns are that don’t complain about POI issues. When my guns shoot pinky nail groups at 75 yards, I notice when I get a shift. The guys who think their scatter gun groups at 75 are “shootin good” might not notice a shift as much.

 

[steve123]

Welcome to the airgun community and pcp airguns.

In stock form the G1 Impact I had was the worst airgun I've had as far as POI shifts. This was before all the aftermarket improvements came out.
A competitor named Justin that was sponsored from UA won a EFT match and some NRL matches with his Impact so his gun has to hold its zero at least for a day. I'm sure Utah airguns knows all the secrets to improve the shifting so I'd send it to them.

 

[thane]

There is no substitute for reducing mechanical connections to stabilize POI.
Swapping in a Lothar Walther Slow Poly barrel reduced the shifting in my M3 dramatically.

 

[Vetmx]

Holding zero or all settings for a day should never be an issue with an Impact. If your gun won’t then you possibly have a leading problem that comes along with slugs. The slug life compounds the small problems that come along with the Impact life. Impact pellet guns are not as temperamental.

 

[Vetmx]

And by the way, a powder burner background means almost nothing in PCP slug land. Shooting technique yes. The technical aspect, no. Clean slate with airguns.

 

[MongooseV8]

We had the same issues with our Impacts. I have a similar background to you and have found the air world to be a little challenging at times. There are many people here that will swear up and down that poi changes are not possible and there is nothing wrong with pcp designs. But having pretty extensive experience with PB builds and understanding, it is obvious to see short comings in design. We decided to use a barrel tension system to help eliminate poi shifts and they work great. I have the Huma kit on mine with an FX carbon fiber sleeve. If you drop your Impact on the ground you will still have shifts, but normal handling has held zero for several months of rough hunting.


Added: Looks like you already have a tensioner. Are you getting poi shifting during a session or from day to day? If its shifting during a single session you have other issues like leading or loose parts.

 

[Trucker3573]

On another note. I always wonder just how accurate guys guns are that don’t complain about POI issues. When my guns shoot pinky nail groups at 75 yards, I notice when I get a shift. The guys who think their scatter gun groups at 75 are “shootin good” might not notice a shift as much.

Yeah this is all very relative. I think POI shift should be defined. I mean everyone is different. Is it shifting an 1/4” or 3”. It’s obviously a big difference some may be bothered by either while others wouldn’t notice a 1/4-1/2 “ or maybe can’t shoot well enough to notice it. I think this is why you get so many varying reviews. Some say no poi shift while others experience exactly the opposite. Truth is they probably all shift a bit. I mean we are talking very light and slow projectiles. The slightest wind shift can cause it.

 

[Troy Bakel]

I have an FX Impact M3 .177 set up specifically to be shot from a 2000LP single piece rest with hard top front and rear rests - no bags.

When chambering a pellet the pellet pusher engages the pellet skirt off dead center cambering the pellet as it pushes the pellet out of the magazine. The pellet indexes the magazine against spring pressure so as the pellet leaves the mag the mag rotates against the push rod holding the camber. The pellet is pushed across two air inlet ports that may or may not increase the camber. When bore scoped you will find the pellet cambered and not concentric with the barrel. The only rifle I know of that chambers a round worse than an M3 is an AR 15.

With the stock set up you cannot control pellet camber and therefore POI. What I did was polish the air inlet ports, use a single shot feeder and quality control pellet size and then the pellets tended to feed concentric to the barrel which made my POI more consistent.

To keep POI cosistant I clean the barrel at the range before shooting. Then I shoot fowlers until the POI and velocity are consistent before going for record.

 

[7Green]

Yeah this is all very relative. I think POI shift should be defined. I mean everyone is different. Is it shifting an 1/4” or 3”. It’s obviously a big difference some may be bothered by either while others wouldn’t notice a 1/4-1/2 “ or maybe can’t shoot well enough to notice it. I think this is why you get so many varying reviews. Some say no poi shift while others experience exactly the opposite. Truth is they probably all shift a bit. I mean we are talking very light and slow projectiles. The slightest wind shift can cause it.

Temperature, wind shift, humidity and barometric pressure all probably have some effect. To truely show shift; has anyone shot their gun for several days in a row with out ever resighting in? What I mean by that is, does the gun continuosly shift each time in the same direction. For instance, an inch right and an inch high. Then the next day 2 inches right and 2 inches high...and so on and so on. I also wonder if some of the shifting is do to an inconsistent cheek weld and or parralax.