N/A Inertia Assisted, Lightweight Top Hat

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beerthief said:
I think you would need to weld ? and what would the heat do to it ?
with mercury would it be marketable ?
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mercury will evaporates with heat.. like in old gold mining they put mercury on the gold to dissolve it and then evaporated it off.. the better ones actually distilled it off and reusable it.. but the others didn't live long from inhaling mercury vapor.. please don't try it.. id prefer you to be around and continue trying to make things better
mark
 
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In the days of the Lewis & Clark Expedition (1803-4), they used mercury to treat syphilis and other STD's. Apply it liberally to the affected areas whenever you could do so privately. And let me tell you, their medicine back then sure seemed a lot more effective than anything we have today.

Most of what is passed off as "science" today is completely bogus, including some so-called "Laws of Physics".
 
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dormitionskete said:
In the days of the Lewis & Clark Expedition (1803-4), they used mercury to treat syphilis and other STD's. Apply it liberally to the affected areas whenever you could do so privately. And let me tell you, their medicine back then sure seemed a lot more effective than anything we have today.

Most of what is passed off as "science" today is completely bogus, including some so-called "Laws of Physics".
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yes but you have to understand that we have progressed 🤣 Lewis and Clark had the gondili rifle I don't remember what caliber for sure but I think I read 36.. it was a PCP that shot round lead balls accurately for 100 yards and had a magazine of 21 and could fire two magazines before needed to be pumped back up.. I don't know of any current PCP guns of that caliber with a magazine that can fire that many rounds before needing to be pumped up..
wish we could buy something new like that.. but it would probably cost more than several FX guns..
it's a total shame because I am sure we have good materials and seals available and yet we don't have anything like that as far as I have seen..
and the umarex gauntlet 30 caliber is the closest to it as far as affordable..
still I am sorry but I totally disagree with you about mercury.. I have read quite a bit of old medicine.. but I do agree with you that we don't seem like we have good medical care like we used to.. honestly I'm not trying to start any disagreement but I really believe that healthcare died from covid.. I'm going on a year and half of cancer and no effective treatment.. hopefully it will be removed soon.. but the wheels turn slow and it seems like it takes forever to get nowhere..
Mark
 
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Much of what is passed off as "science" nowadays is propagated by the scientifically illiterate. Please do not, for one moment, consider 18-19th century mercury treatment of STD as preferable to current therapies.
One aspect to mercury is the rather excessive use as a levelling and drying agent in paints. There are a lot of houses that had the interiors painted with such formulations. It was a very common adjuvant in latex paints until quite recently. There is a lot of that stuff loose in our current environment. One of my profs in school grew up in a silver mining town and said that when he wanted mercury to play with, he would use a wash tub to sorta "gold pan" a shovel full of dirt out of his mom's garden.

All the same, I would prefer a tungsten inertial weight.
 
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Star7 said:
Much of what is passed off as "science" nowadays is propagated by the scientifically illiterate. Please do not, for one moment, consider 18-19th century mercury treatment of STD as preferable to current therapies.
One aspect to mercury is the rather excessive use as a levelling and drying agent in paints. There are a lot of houses that had the interiors painted with such formulations. It was a very common adjuvant in latex paints until quite recently. There is a lot of that stuff loose in our current environment. One of my profs in school grew up in a silver mining town and said that when he wanted mercury to play with, he would use a wash tub to sorta "gold pan" a shovel full of dirt out of his mom's garden.

All the same, I would prefer a tungsten inertial weight.
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please don't misunderstand me, probably was not clear enough.. I totally agree with you that modern medicine is not preferable to older medicine.. I actually think that naturopath and like Chinese, native American and such medicine is much better than the drugs that we are given that supposed to help a problem but make 2 more.. then they try to give you more medicine to fix the problem that the first medicine caused..
I frankly told my doctor that the side effect of one of my cancer medicine was worse than the problem that it was not actually helping.. and no I don't want a refill 🤣.
as far as lead paint.. I don't know that much about house paint.. but automotive and industrial metal paint used to be much better.. take for instance newer cars that the paint is coming off.. it's water based.. regardless I think if something is more durable, then it is better, since it's very likely to have to get redone and more used.
Mark
 
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One of the thoughts I've had all throughout this thread has been that these springs generate a lot of force, and I question whether the tiny little weights you're dealing with are likely to have any perceptible effects. I'm not so sure a better way of going about this is to do something similar to this on a much larger scale in the butt stock. Perhaps one or two in there -- and perhaps in addition to the top hat -- maybe lightly spring loaded for consistency.

Admittedly, I haven't given this a lot of thought -- and I hope not to! But you might want to think about that.

One thing I've done with our HW97K is to put a soft rubber washer in between where the spring contacts the piston, and another one between where the top hat contacts the receiver plug, in an attempt to dampen spring vibration. I don't know how much it actually helps; but it seems like a decent idea, and it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

And please don't get me wrong about using mercury as an STD treatment. If I were to advocate anything about that subject, it would be not to do anything that would cause you to need that type of treatment.

Cheers.
 
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dormitionskete said:
One of the thoughts I've had all throughout this thread has been that these springs generate a lot of force, and I question whether the tiny little weights you're dealing with are likely to have any perceptible effects.
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The difference in shot cycle between the factory 55g weight and just a 7g top hat is easily noticeable which was mentioned in post #1. I know 55g doesn't sound like a whole lot but when you consider the piston itself is only 220g it starts to paint a bigger picture of how much of an effect even 10g can have. Remember, this piston isn't trying to punch through a little air. It's trying to punch through a peak of about 2000psi of pressure. Its all about timing to find the perfect sweet spot where that piston just comes to a rest at home.

That being said, I can comfortably say that I could leave that piston alone with a 29g top hat like it has now and be happy. Why not keep tinkering and looking for better though?
 
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I saw that post, and I'm not trying to criticize or dissuade you from your efforts. I just remember times like when a router has caught wrong on the wood, or when I abruptly cut power to a helicopter once without equally abruptly hitting left pedal, I think it was. In times like those, you really feel just how much torque you're dealing with.

These springs are very powerful. They'll cut your finger off if you get it caught between the piston and the barrel if it inordinately gets released.

And I'm reminded of the German FG-42, which had a stock that collapsed with the recoil.

So, if you're dealing with inertia, it makes me wonder if there isn't some more effective way to go about this.

But by all means, carry on! I'm interested in your results, and wish you all the best in your endeavors.
 
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dormitionskete said:
I saw that post, and I'm not trying to criticize or dissuade you from your efforts. I just remember times like when a router has caught wrong on the wood, or when I abruptly cut power to a helicopter once without equally abruptly hitting left pedal, I think it was. In times like those, you really feel just how much torque you're dealing with.

These springs are very powerful. They'll cut your finger off if you get it caught between the piston and the barrel if it inordinately gets released.

And I'm reminded of the German FG-42, which had a stock that collapsed with the recoil.

So, if you're dealing with inertia, it makes me wonder if there isn't some more effective way to go about this.

But by all means, carry on! I'm interested in your results, and wish you all the best in your endeavors.
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Oh yeah there is absolutely a more efficient way to go about this but at this point its just an attempt to reinvent the wheel. In the future for a quick 12ftlb tune on this gun and this spring it would be lose ~1.5 coils, set the spring, 25-30g top hat and done. Assuming I don't reinvent the wheel of course.
 
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beerthief said:
so ? going fishing and not even one bite is still fun , same/same
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As long as the beer holds out ..😉

Ya, I just wrapped up a tinker project to new and improved something .. it was fun and filled time but it finished up .. ho humm again on what's next ..
 
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I was thinking on that sliding weight part the other day , and thought the lube clogging that and preventing sliding.. then if it slides freely over time of slapping the ends would it hammer and deform or bust out ? Then I wondered if just weighted from light nylon to lead slugged steel to add whatever forward momentum . Maybe I'm way off base on your idea overall? Then I guess if you don't have good back pressure your piston slamming every shot ..

Oh well I guess that where the r&d dept comes in play ..lol
 
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markhooper said:
please don't misunderstand me, probably was not clear enough.. I totally agree with you that modern medicine is not preferable to older medicine.. I actually think that naturopath and like Chinese, native American and such medicine is much better than the drugs that we are given that supposed to help a problem but make 2 more.. then they try to give you more medicine to fix the problem that the first medicine caused..
I frankly told my doctor that the side effect of one of my cancer medicine was worse than the problem that it was not actually helping.. and no I don't want a refill 🤣.
as far as lead paint.. I don't know that much about house paint.. but automotive and industrial metal paint used to be much better.. take for instance newer cars that the paint is coming off.. it's water based.. regardless I think if something is more durable, then it is better, since it's very likely to have to get redone and more used.
Mark
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I DID NOT say modern medicine is not preferable to older "medicine". I DID NOT say anything about lead paint. Mercury was and adjuvant in latex paints long after lead was pitched. As far as low volatile paints......we can argue all we like about that but that horse left the barn and won't come back.

good luck with your shaman and the sweat lodge
 
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Hateful McNasty said:
I was thinking on that sliding weight part the other day , and thought the lube clogging that and preventing sliding.. then if it slides freely over time of slapping the ends would it hammer and deform or bust out ? Then I wondered if just weighted from light nylon to lead slugged steel to add whatever forward momentum . Maybe I'm way off base on your idea overall? Then I guess if you don't have good back pressure your piston slamming every shot ..

Oh well I guess that where the r&d dept comes in play ..lol
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Looking at transducer curves in the Cardew books, it seems they concluded that the rebound force was more than 1000# and therefore tough to constrain mechanically. BUT I don't believe that Theoban just stuck an inertial weight in the piston without some research. I think that the inertial weight has a lot of promise and hope to see some improvement in springer efficiency.
 
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Star7 said:
Looking at transducer curves in the Cardew books, it seems they concluded that the rebound force was more than 1000# and therefore tough to constrain mechanically. BUT I don't believe that Theoban just stuck an inertial weight in the piston without some research. I think that the inertial weight has a lot of promise and hope to see some improvement in springer efficiency.
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Yeah that has become my thinking as well. I think the key in my case will likely be a steel weight and a very, very small bleeder hole in the front so that it can create a momentary cushion. The brass weight, even with a soft buffer, ended up deforming after 50 shots or so.
 
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