I have been trying for awhile now to find an insurance company that doesn't treat air rifle sales like firearms. They all want to charge as if I was a full on gun shop and call it firearms coverage. They can't/won't seem to differentiate air guns from firearms?
Insurance for sales of air rifles
- Thread starter Cody01
- Start date
I had a similar problem years ago in a different industry. Couple of things you can try.
1. Change your wording, but always be honest. Say "outdoor sporting goods" and if they ask about firearms say No. Because that's true. And the legal definitions are on your side with that one. Don't use the word "gun" if you don't have to. Have the appropriate extraneous sporting goods inventory to support your claims.
2. Call around to any contacts you have that are also airgun shop owners (I'm having to assume you are an airgun shop owner—or similar—since you gave almost no information), and see what insurance companies and specific agents they are using. You can then reach out to those agents and explain that you have the same situation as the person giving you the referral. This helps the agent to understand the situation. That's what ended up working for me.
1. Change your wording, but always be honest. Say "outdoor sporting goods" and if they ask about firearms say No. Because that's true. And the legal definitions are on your side with that one. Don't use the word "gun" if you don't have to. Have the appropriate extraneous sporting goods inventory to support your claims.
2. Call around to any contacts you have that are also airgun shop owners (I'm having to assume you are an airgun shop owner—or similar—since you gave almost no information), and see what insurance companies and specific agents they are using. You can then reach out to those agents and explain that you have the same situation as the person giving you the referral. This helps the agent to understand the situation. That's what ended up working for me.
I guess I don't see them as equal risk. No fire hazards with air rifle and pellets. For the most part far less powerful. They just don't seem the same.
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Have you seen then prices of airguns lately, no wonder. You can get a ruger 10/22 for $200. What can you get airgun wise for the same money? Not much
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This might be a business opportunity for one of the more entrepreneurial spirits here among us that know the hobby.
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Insurance companies do not see the world like anyone else. Everything is risk assessment. No justifications, no mitigating conditions.
You can talk and explain how you see things until you are blue in the face. They don’t care. You want what they have to offer? You play by their rules.
I have owned businesses for over 20 years. Two people I have to deal with are banks and insurance companies. You are not going to win against them. They have what you need and they dictate terms.
A cautionary note. Do not play games with describing your business activity or products trying to lower your rates. Semantics and cutesy wording will end you up in a lot of trouble. Have a claim and they will immediately review your policy and compare it to your operation or products. Their first reaction is to make sure they have to cover you. They would rather not cover you. If you are not accurate and honest, they can and will legally refuse you coverage. Then all that money you saved can go toward a retainer for your legal counsel.
You can talk and explain how you see things until you are blue in the face. They don’t care. You want what they have to offer? You play by their rules.
I have owned businesses for over 20 years. Two people I have to deal with are banks and insurance companies. You are not going to win against them. They have what you need and they dictate terms.
A cautionary note. Do not play games with describing your business activity or products trying to lower your rates. Semantics and cutesy wording will end you up in a lot of trouble. Have a claim and they will immediately review your policy and compare it to your operation or products. Their first reaction is to make sure they have to cover you. They would rather not cover you. If you are not accurate and honest, they can and will legally refuse you coverage. Then all that money you saved can go toward a retainer for your legal counsel.
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Amen. Very sound and sage advice.
Even though Insurance has been one of the greatest sources of frustration in my business and personal life, it is as they say, a necessary evil.
Be honest with whatever company you deal with.
I have used a company called Philadelphia Insurance and Gillingham and associates to insure some unusual circumstances over the years.
good luck with your business venture.
Doc
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Are you referring to liability or loss/damage inventory coverage? And do you have a physical store where customers are present? Lastly, is the activity done by you or through a separate legal entity.
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Might be a business opportunity there, Cody. Keep us posted about how it goes insuring airguns.
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Liability. I am mainly looking to do online sales but don't want someone to hurt themselves then say it was my fault.
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Assuming these are personal transactions, you might find that an umbrella personal liability policy, probably from your homeowner policy company, is the most cost effective coverage. When I was active in club road course driving, I had some concern about personal liability, and a larger umbrella policy was recommended by my agent, and it was relatively inexpensive.
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Your high end air guns are as expensive if not more than a decent high end pb as far as theft or fire
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I think you will find that liability waivers are generally enforceable except in cases of gross negligence, which gets down to specific facts and the interpretation of a court.
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Cody.
The waiver or limit of liability will stand in court if you are not selling highly modified rifles. I you are doing the modifications that exceed the manufacturer's
specs, then you assume the liability for the modifications.
ELH0102's advice is good advice too. We have the personal umbrella to offer additional protection from liability for all of our properties. It include all of our rentals and businesses as well.
An LLC is perhaps the most effective way to protect your personal assets from lawsuits. Form the limited liability company so anyone attempting to sue
you can only sue the entity and all of your personal assets are exempt and protected.
luck
Doc
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