Interested in trying to improve my technique for 100 yard target shooting

[JungleShooter]

Airgun-Hobbyist,

I wonder if 10 FPS difference make that much of a difference in the POI....



When I enter a 15.89gr into ChairGun and compare the drop at 100y range shot with 910fps and shot with 920fps, ChairGun shows me only a quarter of an inch difference in elevation.



I think, it was Bob Sterne who said that at around 900fps and 100y range, a 2% extreme spread of muzzle velocity will make too small of a difference for most shooters.

At slower speeds the percentage has to go further down to assure a stable POI.

Matthias

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

@JungleShooter you are correct, it is only about a quarter of an inch at those speeds. But if you sort for weight at the very least, you gain that 1/4" of accuracy. 

Just from my observations, I think sorting for weight actually helps even more with group size than that 1/4" drop difference, regardless of what Chairgun or Strelok show in the numbers. And that is probably because a group opened up by a 1/4" just looks so much bigger.

 

[JungleShooter]

Yupp, I think you're right — the difference in weight makes a difference in head size and other irregularities — and those all affect our group sizes.



Wow, JUST IMAGINE if the big (read expensive) pellet manufacturers would actually abide by what they print on their pellet cans — we'd be so much better off!

And the weight printed on the JSB Beast must be pure mockery — what else can it be?!? 33.956 grain — ¿REALLY?

 

[tommyb]

Today I was at the local outdoor range with the RAW HM1000x .22 High Power shooting JSB 25g RD at 100 yards. FX Radar had average FPS at around 940 FPS and wind was minimal at around 2-4 mph, sometimes less. No 'magic' groups here CenterCut (i.e., Mike if you are watching), but it was my first attempt with the NUAH targets. I shot 4 (5) shot groups with the Splatterburst first, to try and get ready for the NUAH targets.

If I had the score correct I shot a 47/50 with one in the X ring and a 48/50 with 0 in the X ring. Very humbling, but score wise it wasn't bad despite the 2++ inch CTC groups at 100 yards. I can see how folks get hooked on this stuff!

Tom

 

 

[Centercut]

Nice shooting Tom... Lets look at target shooting, like NUAH, like EBR targets, etc. as trying to get each pellet as close to the "X" as possible. That is different than actually shooting "groups". At least as far as I understand it, groups are shot in as calm conditions as possible, with your Point of Aim being exactly the same for all five shots (or more). Shooting NUAH or actual targets for score you are moving the crosshairs to get the pellets in as small of a group as possible., i.e., trying to get each shot closest to the "X" as you possibly can... One method shows your gun's precision and accuracy, the other shows your skills plus your gun's precision and accuracy... So I really wouldn't consider shooting NUAH shooting "groups" per se, but more trying to shoot the best score possible, then measuring those five shots to get a measurable "group" as an afterthought. IMHO only...

 

[tommyb]

Mike, thanks for the quick come back.

Good explanation of the differences between shooting for groups vs. shooting for score. As I am quickly learning, “shooting NUAH targets for score is a whole lot harder than shooting for groups.” Same is true for 50Y vs. 100Y BR shooting. 100 is a looooooong way! 

Fuss and I talked about these same differences at length this past Sunday. Good to get your mutual perspectives, as it is very helpful to me and hopefully others as well.

I have the Midas Tac on the RAW and your recommendation to me a while back was excellent. No regrets and I love the scope.

 

[Centercut]

Tommy, yes, love the Midas TAC 6-24x50, I have two, one on each EDgun. I also like the Ares BTR, I have one 4.5-27x50 on the .30 Bobcat and one 2.5-15x50 on the .30 Vulcan2 Tactic. I bought both while on sale at Midway for $429 and $399. Otherwise I would have just bought two more Midas TAC. The Ares does have an IR reticle, but I never really use it. Both have great glass, but the turrets are better on the Midas TAC.

As far as groups versus targets, there's a place for both. See my groups below I shot in August while tuning up the Bobcat for EBR. This was before I truly found the magic. The top two groups are 6 or 7 shots, the bottom group is 5 shots. the shoot-n-see targets are 2 inches, the inner circle is 1 inch and the red bull's-eye is 1/2 inch. All are under an inch C2C, shot at 92 yards in light breeze, maybe 4 to 5 mph, holding aim point the same for each shot. If I were shooting these for "score", I would have moved the scope aim up or down to coincide better with the first shot or two or to compensate for wind changes, and the "groups" would have been much smaller...

 

[CampFussell]

That great shooting Tom. You're on your way to a magic group. I can feel it in my bones!

I had an enjoyable day shooting with friends today as well! My friends 16 yr old daughter is the next Annie Oakley, and she had never shot an airgun until today? LOL

 

[tommyb]

Thanks Jimmy...

Both you and Mike were a bit generous on the compliments, but I'm learning and wanted to update the post. I will experiment with moving the crosshairs around slightly based on each shot at the NUAH target, depending on the first and/or 2nd shot and where it lands. Easier said than done, but I'm going to work at this a bit and I'm sure I will have more questions.

b-t-w - That was some 100 yard shooting by your friend's daughter! All the more special since it was her first time with an Airgun, and it was no "gimmie" at 100 yards. She crushed my results, and she has a future in this hobby! I should be asking her what she did! Lol.

 

[CampFussell]

b-t-w - That was some 100 yard shooting by your friend's daughter! All the more special since it was her first time with an Airgun, and it was no "gimmie" at 100 yards. She crushed my results, and she has a future in this hobby! I should be asking her what she did! Lol.

Haha, I know what you mean, I'm gonna have to get her to train me now!

 

[tommyb]

As far as groups versus targets, there's a place for both. See my groups below I shot in August while tuning up the Bobcat for EBR. This was before I truly found the magic. The top two groups are 6 or 7 shots, the bottom group is 5 shots. the shoot-n-see targets are 2 inches, the inner circle is 1 inch and the red bull's-eye is 1/2 inch. All are under an inch C2C, shot at 92 yards in light breeze, maybe 4 to 5 mph, holding aim point the same for each shot. If I were shooting these for "score", I would have moved the scope aim up or down to coincide better with the first shot or two or to compensate for wind changes, and the "groups" would have been much smaller…

Thanks for the response Mike! B-t-w: Congrats on winning the 100 yard EBR recently, especially against some impressive shooters. Does anyone know if there is an update to PCARMY's request to start a Long Range Sub forum? Just curious as I think it is a good idea he had.

 

[CampFussell]

Tom, you need to edit in the photos of the targets? I don't see them?

 

[tommyb]

Jimmy

Sorry for the confusion here. 

I was doing a cut and paste of Mike's (Centercut) response to me on 10/29 at 3:52pm with some "verbiage" from his post, for the targets he shot ( Scroll up to see). Was just thanking him (Mike) for his post and sending a belated congrats.

I know there is a way to highlight someone else's post before I respond, but damn if I can remember the process. I see others do it all the time and I normally do a cut/paste but I can see why you were confused as it looks like the entire post is from me. 

I have no additional targets since my post on 10/29 but might get out again this week.

 

[CampFussell]

Haha, thanks for keeping straight Tom. Yup, I wuz dazed and confused! Kept looking for the pics! LOL

Carry on my Wayward Son!

 

[Therealld]

Sorting by weight can be, and often IS more important than ballistic tables would suggest, because there are myriad reasons WHY weight may differ! The same die set might produce weight spread due to preform volume variation, or slack and mal-adjustment in the machine/press such as a smidgen of lead stuck between moving parts that is even changing thickness as the machine cycles, or even changes in the lead alloy or processing lube conditions can affect final dimensions, and the operator may fail to start a new lot with every change in raw material (normally a wire coil! Changes in head shape, diameter, skirt evenness or cavity deformation are all things that MIGHT change weight and we have no way to predict what combination is benign enough to only more elevation that 1/4 moa. I think a common issue is mixed lots, either by the maker or end user. I never mix pellets even between tins marked with identical numbers.

I prefer to use carefully weighed and visually inspected pelllets for serious testing or important matches, though I'm too lazy to do it for less serious shooting. I find head size info on tins only useful to help distinguish different lots, and listed weights just a generalization. I characterize pellets I buy mostly by accuracy testing from individual tins, finding they tend to vary too much to just go by the brand and model. 

I prefer to test in conditions of intended use, such as outdoors at long range if thats what I'll expect best results for. I also sometimes pretest at shorter ranges in windless conditions, or even in the 50 yard tunnel, but find no-wind results only a start. BEST no-wind 5 shot groups should usually be multiplied by around three to five times to suggest typical outdoor results in mid-day winds.