N/A Is ".177 HIGH POWER" an oxymoron?

[SteveV]

Subjectivity. You see a 30 foot pound .22 as "standard" - folks like me that started the hobby shooting springers and co2 airguns see anything much over 20 fpe as a "magnum" , and that is just one example. I would venture to guess there are many more perspectives than airgun calibers.

 

[Vana2]

Check out Viking Airgunner on YT. He shoots .177 exclusively, has great real world results and recommendations, and is currently working on a video shooting a .177 Panthera. It should be out very soon.

Thanks, I'll make a point of checking that channel!

 

[gendoc]

Leave the tune as is and try some 10.03 Knockouts. You might be surprised.

i have, its close but not as accurate in grouping 25-50-75yrds. thanks

 

[Vana2]

sometimes i want to performance tune my HW100 in .177 with slugs, but its so accurate and consistent like it is with 10.34gr jsb pellets at about 19 fpe.
its my favorite squirrel and pest bird shooter.
one day i will get another .17 for high power with slugs.

My .177 HW100 was factory tuned to 19fpe , great power/accuracy out to 50 yards but pellet stability problems beyond that.

Up until recently, my .22 HW100 was my favorite pester/hunter. I'm still very fond of the HW100 but my .22 FX Crown being lighter in weight and having a greater shot-count is now my go-to favorite.

 

[Vana2]

My .177 does 31 FPE with 13gr JSB knockouts on only 500mm of barrel, if I were to slap a 700mm and upped my reg to ~165 bar it would do 50 FPE.

Taking that further, going unregulated with a full pressure fill, you'd be looking at 67~ FPE. That is definitely not lacking in power as it would surpass many factory .25 caliber air rifles.

-Matt

Matt,
I've always put accuracy ahead of power and have great respect for the Brits who are masters with their sub-12 fpe airguns.

How's the accuracy at 31 fpe? Guess that would be a slugs only power level.

 

[Vana2]

Subjectivity. You see a 30 foot pound .22 as "standard" - folks like me that started the hobby shooting springers and co2 airguns see anything much over 20 fpe as a "magnum" , and that is just one example. I would venture to guess there are many more perspectives than airgun calibers.

True, perspective is relative to experience. With this post I'm adjust/correct my perspective from other people's experiences.

Yeah, "power" is relative. My first airgun was a .177 Slavia 618 (now 60 years old, still have and shoot it) that managed maybe 3 fpe on a good day. My second airgun, a Crossman Model 101 was a "magnum" for sure! Still have that as well but it's retired from active duty.

 

[Vana2]

My .177 Wolverine HP begs to differ. Shoots 13.43gr JSB Knock Outs very good at 975 fps for 28 FP. Of course the beauty of using slugs (even at only a .067 BC) at 100 yard it is still going 800 fps for a touch over 19 FP.
View attachment 401524

Airgun pic!! Love it!

Beautiful wood on that stock! My Wolverine R has nice wood on it but yours is exceptional!

Cheers!

 

[Vana2]

If you have not tried a .177 slugger? You are missing out, they are simply a blast! And no slouch either, you can really pound squirrels and prairie dogs out over 150 yds easy with the right set up. Also and more to your point, if you are ever going to push 16 and 20 grn slugs at 950-1000 fps? You will need a high power gun to do it!
It is very common to be 130-150 bar with a dynamic or Impact to do it, that means a lot of guns simply can’t, especially if they are shorter than a 600mm barrel. Give it a try.

*** If you have not tried a .177 slugger? You are missing out, they are simply a blast! ***

Though I'm not interested in extreme range or power I am curious to see what the .177 platform is capable of beyond typical pellet weights.

I'm a ".22 caliber" guy but I'll definitely try a .177 slugger. I've got a Walther Dominator 1250 (LW barrel) and I think my HW100 has the power needed for slugs. If not, I'd consider getting a .177/700mm barrel kit for the Impact or, maybe, the Panthera.

Thanks (I think ) for yet another airgun related project

Cheers!

 

[Just Zack 2]

An older BT65 in .177 can easily hit 30+fpe, had mine up to 36fpe with 15gr. nsa's. Fine out to 80 yards target practice and further if calm, but for any other duty it's like smashing a finishing nail with a sledge hammer. Can't imagine having more power in a .177 doing any good, but guess it'll be like having a longer nail and bigger sledge.

 

[CharlieF]

This debate is nothing more than Physics 101. Mass (pellet weight) times velocity (muzzle velocity) equals kinetic energy at impact (foot pounds) caliber is irrelevant. Shooting .177 and .22, you are restricted to the maximum pellet weight available. .25 and .30 increase the mass you are able to launch downrange. Variables are how accurate you weapon is with pellet/slug weight and its overall ability to launch the pellet at the optimum weight/speed that produces maximum foot pounds of energy at impact with the best accuracy,

 

[rigbymauser]

I knew the .177 was a porker....

Spot on. I could rant about my Panthera 177 20 grain slug addiction but I’ll drop the mic to the master of 177 mayhem:

Maverick .177 Porker Down

**Before anyone gives me crap about the caliber: I put in the work to make sure this gun is a laser, and to make sure I know what shots I can take with the highest percentage of success. I do my best to put myself in as close as I can to the hogs(under 50 yards), so there is less room for me...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[JimD]

My first PCP was a Marauder pistol and is now about 17 fpe and 22 caliber. I think of it as my light 22 caliber. Next I got a 25 caliber Avenger, then a 25 caliber P35 and then a 22 and 177 caliber P35. I think the P35 platform is sized for 22 caliber. I had to clip a coil off the hammer spring to get it down to the regulator setting of the 177. It came with a lower regulator setting than the other two but the same hammer spring and there is limited adjustment range. It gets about 100 shots on a charge shooting 10.65 grain H&N Baracuda Match about 900 fps (in warm weather). Pretty accurate but I've wondered what it would do tuned down a little. It's taken 9 squirrels so far with good results. They often take a step or two after impact but don't run at all and drop within a few seconds of impact. The 32 fpe 22 and 25 drop them quicker but the difference is not very important (but is satisfying). I detuned the 25 P35 after finding it prefers H&N FTT which are only 20 grain, But I may try to tune it up around 50 ft lbs with JSB 34 grain pellets going a little over 800 fps. I think it will need a plenum expansion to support that and have one on the way. It shot the heavy JSBs pretty well with the tune it came with but they were under 800 fps.

I've played with slugs in 22 and 25 but found none I want to shoot. Ed may get me to try some knockouts that his gun likes but so far no slugs in 177. So I think of power levels in terms of pellet weights. For me, my P35-177 is high powered for a 177 at 19 fpe. But that would be low powered in my thinking for a 22, like my Prod. I think my P35-22 shooting 21 grain H&Ns at about 830 fps is fairly high powered for a 22. My P35-25 shooting 20 grain pellets at about 875 is a low powered 25 in my thinking. If I can get 34 grain pellets up near 850 fps I think it will be a mid to higher powered 25. In other words, I define low powered pellet guns as getting lightweight pellets of their caliber up around 800-900 fps. If it shoots heavy pellets of it's caliber at those speeds it is a high powered gun of that caliber.

Slugs can be similar weight but tend to be heavier messing that system up. Speed tends to increase too so fpe can be significantly higher. But guns sized to shoot pellets at pellet speeds may be challenged to get heavier slugs up to their preferred speeds. My P35-177 with somewhat large for caliber openings in the action may do better with slugs than my 22 and 25 caliber P35s. At least that's the way I see it. But I only shoot my airguns for fun occasionally beyond the 35 yards I can do at home so I am just not terribly interested in slugs. But I do like my P35-177 for my fairly short range shooting. It's a bit quieter than the others and has adequate power for squirrels. 100 shots per charge is nice. I kind of prefer having more than adequate power on squirrels but my 177 works fine and certainly can make a hole in a paper target without difficulty.

 

[Motorhead]

Have built several .177 heavy pellet / mid slug weight Ice Pickers !!
1st a JSAR RAPTOR that cruised comfortably at @ 37-38 fpe and then a THEOBEN MFR that likes it @ 30-31 fpe.
BOTH are crazy accurate and very capable to hit what aimed at inside 100 yards.

And FUN fun fun to shoot

 

[davelarson]

I’m a big fan of the .177 caliber, especially in high power.
My RedWolf .177 HP is an absolute pleasure to shoot.
It loves the 13.43 knockout slugs and is extremely accurate out to 130 yards.
This group is my best so far at 130 yards.
That slug is going about 1020 fps and there is no recoil with the shot.
So you can shoot, and watch the slug impact the target, and the crosshairs barely move at all.
They stay on the bull the whole time you are shooting.
And the slugs slice through the wind incredibly well too, not like a .30 caliber, but still very impressive.
Plus that tiny little slug moving that quickly is just devastating to pests.
I’ve posted pictures of the results on chipmunks in the hunting part of the forum and it’s pretty incredible.
Add to that you get twice as many pellets or slugs as you get in .22 and that’s a whole bunch of shooting sessions!
Edit: This is a five shot group and the impacts are glancing off the steel sheet to the right because the target is crooked lol!

 

[bchannell]

My .177 Wolverine HP begs to differ. Shoots 13.43gr JSB Knock Outs very good at 975 fps for 28 FP. Of course the beauty of using slugs (even at only a .067 BC) at 100 yard it is still going 800 fps for a touch over 19 FP.
View attachment 401524

I don't know how that Wolf shoots, but it sure is purdy! That just might be the purdiest stock I've seen!

 

[zx10wall]

I don't know how that Wolf shoots, but it sure is purdy! That just might be the purdiest stock I've seen!

Shot good enough for 5th at EBR’s 50 BR this year.

 

[weevil]

This debate is nothing more than Physics 101. Mass (pellet weight) times velocity (muzzle velocity) equals kinetic energy at impact (foot pounds) caliber is irrelevant. Shooting .177 and .22, you are restricted to the maximum pellet weight available. .25 and .30 increase the mass you are able to launch downrange. Variables are how accurate you weapon is with pellet/slug weight and its overall ability to launch the pellet at the optimum weight/speed that produces maximum foot pounds of energy at impact with the best accuracy

That physics class seems to conflate muzzle velocity with energy delivered at impact, ignoring the role of BC. In that regard, a 22cal slug needs to be 30grain to have the same BC as a 177cal in 20grain (using Zans estimates). Regarding the latter point, if your goal is to make it through something tough like a skull, the smaller frontal area of a 177 means that the same fpe is concentrated into a smaller poi. It’s akin to applying the same fpe (via a hammer) to nails of different thicknesses. As, I recall, around 40% more fpe is required for the same penetration in 22.

Taking these two factors into account, one could argue that, for an equivalent weight of lead, the 177 has substantially more long distance skull-cracking capability! I think that’s why folks like davelarson (and the Hogmeister “Rallyshark”) describe it as “devastating “..

 

[EdinGa]

I've seen the bacon Rallyshark puts down with his fire-breathing .177 and it's impressive indeed.

 

[EdinGa]

The ice pick shooter strikes again! The gun was shooting Griffin 23 grain .177 slugs around 1070fps(a hair under 60 fpe). This setup always gets it done The hog was around 125-150lbs. The shot was at 33 yards. I don't have a great story about the hunt really. The boar came in behind me, and... https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/the-maverick-ice-pick-shooter-177-dropped-another-hog.1290813/

 

[CharlieF]

That physics class seems to conflate muzzle velocity with energy delivered at impact, ignoring the role of BC. In that regard, a 22cal slug needs to be 30grain to have the same BC as a 177cal in 20grain (using Zans estimates). Regarding the latter point, if your goal is to make it through something tough like a skull, the smaller frontal area of a 177 means that the same fpe is concentrated into a smaller poi. It’s akin to applying the same fpe (via a hammer) to nails of different thicknesses. As, I recall, around 40% more fpe is required for the same penetration in 22.

Taking these two factors into account, one could argue that, for an equivalent weight of lead, the 177 has substantially more long distance skull-cracking capability! I think that’s why folks like davelarson (and the Hogmeister “Rallyshark”) describe it as “devastating “..

Could not agree more. Wind conditions, air density, humidity, and numerous other factors come into play A serious shooter (contest) takes all these into consideration. The main thing is that .177, in the words of Forged in Fire, “It will kill”.