N/A Is ".177 HIGH POWER" an oxymoron?

[Racing]

I wouldn´t say.
Quite recently, on sorts of a dare, i went ape on what´s essentially a rip-off on the Beeman Chief in 177cal.
Saw potential as H&N since a while makes 20grain slugs, and at that the 21 grain Piledrivers.

Now. We dubbed it "El-Cheapo" seeing it runs 135£/165$ (approx same in €) new. Loads of work of course, incl the now approx 330cc tube, but rather little money was spent.

As they measure "large" within i made this little "re-swaging" tool.

...and that turned out to work really well.

Albeit a single shot, that there is 9 shots taken at 30 meters.
But.

As i went completely ape on it we let it settle on the shooting bench and out the LabRadar came. First hit we were greeted by a supersonic boom and the LabRadar showed 1288fps.
Yes.
That´s a cool 100J out of a 177cal, so calling the caliber a slouch.. dunno about that exactly.

Have since "detuned it" quite a bit to get it subsonic as that´s way easier to suppress and thus keep noise levels at bay, why it runs happily ever after with surprisingly good accuracy at distance at approx 1050-1060 using said 20 grain pills.

Think of it what you wish, in my book that´s very respectable performance and especially so out of a "as cheap as they get" platform.

 

[davelarson]

I wouldn´t say.
Quite recently, on sorts of a dare, i went ape on what´s essentially a rip-off on the Beeman Chief in 177cal.
Saw potential as H&N since a while makes 20grain slugs, and at that the 21 grain Piledrivers.

Now. We dubbed it "El-Cheapo" seeing it runs 135£/165$ (approx same in €) new. Loads of work of course, incl the now approx 330cc tube, but rather little money was spent.

As they measure "large" within i made this little "re-swaging" tool.

...and that turned out to work really well.

Albeit a single shot, that there is 9 shots taken at 30 meters.
But.

As i went completely ape on it we let it settle on the shooting bench and out the LabRadar came. First hit we were greeted by a supersonic boom and the LabRadar showed 1288fps.
Yes.
That´s a cool 100J out of a 177cal, so calling the caliber a slouch.. dunno about that exactly.

Have since "detuned it" quite a bit to get it subsonic as that´s way easier to suppress and thus keep noise levels at bay, why it runs happily ever after with surprisingly good accuracy at distance at approx 1050-1060 using said 20 grain pills.

Think of it what you wish, in my book that´s very respectable performance and especially so out of a "as cheap as they get" platform.

I really like EL-Cheapo! Nicely done, those slugs are really cooking.

 

[Vana2]

I wouldn´t say.
Quite recently, on sorts of a dare, i went ape on what´s essentially a rip-off on the Beeman Chief in 177cal.
Saw potential as H&N since a while makes 20grain slugs, and at that the 21 grain Piledrivers.

Now. We dubbed it "El-Cheapo" seeing it runs 135£/165$ (approx same in €) new. Loads of work of course, incl the now approx 330cc tube, but rather little money was spent.

As they measure "large" within i made this little "re-swaging" tool.

...and that turned out to work really well.

Albeit a single shot, that there is 9 shots taken at 30 meters.
But.

As i went completely ape on it we let it settle on the shooting bench and out the LabRadar came. First hit we were greeted by a supersonic boom and the LabRadar showed 1288fps.
Yes.
That´s a cool 100J out of a 177cal, so calling the caliber a slouch.. dunno about that exactly.

Have since "detuned it" quite a bit to get it subsonic as that´s way easier to suppress and thus keep noise levels at bay, why it runs happily ever after with surprisingly good accuracy at distance at approx 1050-1060 using said 20 grain pills.

Think of it what you wish, in my book that´s very respectable performance and especially so out of a "as cheap as they get" platform.

Thanks for posting! Looks like it was a fun project!
Cheers!

 

[Vana2]

My first PCP was a Marauder pistol and is now about 17 fpe and 22 caliber. I think of it as my light 22 caliber. Next I got a 25 caliber Avenger, then a 25 caliber P35 and then a 22 and 177 caliber P35. I think the P35 platform is sized for 22 caliber. I had to clip a coil off the hammer spring to get it down to the regulator setting of the 177. It came with a lower regulator setting than the other two but the same hammer spring and there is limited adjustment range. It gets about 100 shots on a charge shooting 10.65 grain H&N Baracuda Match about 900 fps (in warm weather). Pretty accurate but I've wondered what it would do tuned down a little. It's taken 9 squirrels so far with good results. They often take a step or two after impact but don't run at all and drop within a few seconds of impact. The 32 fpe 22 and 25 drop them quicker but the difference is not very important (but is satisfying). I detuned the 25 P35 after finding it prefers H&N FTT which are only 20 grain, But I may try to tune it up around 50 ft lbs with JSB 34 grain pellets going a little over 800 fps. I think it will need a plenum expansion to support that and have one on the way. It shot the heavy JSBs pretty well with the tune it came with but they were under 800 fps.

I've played with slugs in 22 and 25 but found none I want to shoot. Ed may get me to try some knockouts that his gun likes but so far no slugs in 177. So I think of power levels in terms of pellet weights. For me, my P35-177 is high powered for a 177 at 19 fpe. But that would be low powered in my thinking for a 22, like my Prod. I think my P35-22 shooting 21 grain H&Ns at about 830 fps is fairly high powered for a 22. My P35-25 shooting 20 grain pellets at about 875 is a low powered 25 in my thinking. If I can get 34 grain pellets up near 850 fps I think it will be a mid to higher powered 25. In other words, I define low powered pellet guns as getting lightweight pellets of their caliber up around 800-900 fps. If it shoots heavy pellets of it's caliber at those speeds it is a high powered gun of that caliber.

Slugs can be similar weight but tend to be heavier messing that system up. Speed tends to increase too so fpe can be significantly higher. But guns sized to shoot pellets at pellet speeds may be challenged to get heavier slugs up to their preferred speeds. My P35-177 with somewhat large for caliber openings in the action may do better with slugs than my 22 and 25 caliber P35s. At least that's the way I see it. But I only shoot my airguns for fun occasionally beyond the 35 yards I can do at home so I am just not terribly interested in slugs. But I do like my P35-177 for my fairly short range shooting. It's a bit quieter than the others and has adequate power for squirrels. 100 shots per charge is nice. I kind of prefer having more than adequate power on squirrels but my 177 works fine and certainly can make a hole in a paper target without difficulty.

Thanks for sharing your experiences! I appreciate the details.

 

[Vana2]

Thanks all for your comments! Great information... thought provoking.

As usual, my curiosity costs me $$$. I'm looking into .177 barrel kits for my FX airguns and will be needing to stock up on slugs.

Cheers!

 

[Spinach]

So far I've just read and observed.
I'm not limited to calibre or power, basically no limits.
For me the .177 are the most exciting and potential step forward. Something I'm enjoying.

 

[Peashooter]

With heavy ammo, and if it can fly fast, you get upwards of 50 FP of smacking power, thats way more than my old .22 FX Cyclone on a good day.
I generally shoot 13 grains which give me a small 30 FP

 

[Franklink]

It's been 3 or 4 years but @Nofilters came up for a day of pdog shooting and brought his Heliboard equipped .177 Red Wolf HP. He chose to use the JSB Beast .177/16.2s. Seems like he said they were around 30fpe.

He had no issue killing quite a few dogs. I think the furthest was around 130yards.

I dabbled in the .177/12.5gr NSA slugs a few years ago. With one gun I could hit my 2 inch paddles at 120 yards without any issues. From memory that was in the 24fpe area.

For most reasonable airgun quarry, a high power .177 will kill em dead, and quite a ways out there too.

The best part about the high power/small bore recipe was mentioned here already, but it's how chill they are to shoot. Good ole Newton and his equal and opposite reaction mean that launching a .25/34gr or a .30/44 or a big fat slug is going to produce some recoil. BUT throwing a tiny pill down range means much less equal and opposite reaction (recoil). MUCH funner to stay on the intended target in the scope and watch the impact.

 

[Peashooter]

Yeah beasts will smack good too, only downside they will not be lasers a bit past 50 M.
But out to 50 M i have had much fun with them, and about as accurate as you will get it

I am a slug whore though.

PS: Never tried the beasts in my Vulcan 3 CZ barrel, but my FX maverick with both barrels shoot them very fine.

So i got several tins of beasts on standby for sure, just i prefer weights where you get 400 in a tin instead of 250.

PPS: I have a brownstone brink in a tree, shooting at its small end, at 86 Meters that stone is getting torn to pieces, and only reason its still in 1 piece is i dont shoot at it often, and i am attacking from the long end so got 10 inches or whatever a brick is long to drill.
I am however pretty sure it will soon fall out of the tree i got it in, wedged in between 2 branches.

Wind do play with you shooting .177 and far, but it is what it is, and the weather i shoot in it is never horrible and destructive for the fun and wholesomeness of being at the range.
Actually i am amazed how good the little slugs handle them self, CUZ i have tried to switch over to pellets, and that's a whole other ballgame in the same wind.
So where i pretty much have all my 13gr slugs on a 2" target, with pellets i can barely hit the damn thing.

 

[Racing]

Thanks for posting! Looks like it was a fun project!
Cheers!

Hey, thx!
Altho the mainstay of my PCP stable are 25cals i have to admit being where you´re at just a few months back. Never took any interest in 177cal as i really didn´t see what to use it for.
Since though this thing has been used with great success on the rats in "de-tuned" shape n form.

Due this i did me a barter recently which made me end up with a BSA R-10 in no-go state that i´ve spent quite some time getting right, the idea then being for a REALLY good looking "ratter".
As distance can be there i´ve opted to make it hand me around the 45-50J mark. Reason i keep back is that the OTHER criteria to be met here is noise level, i want it DEAD quiet. Literally.

So.. here she is. An Accufire Noctis ontop. Built valve, barrel swapped for a 500 mill unit, shroud replaced with a 28*1 tube and in turn filled. Way more "responsive" diffusor for said shroud and in turn one of my home brew cans out front.
Way heavier bolt handle (bolt jump is rather common with these) and so on and so on. LOADS of work went into this one, and i´m still ironing stuff out TBH.

Their regs have a REAL lousy rep and what´s more plenum volume is about none there. At all. So have ordered a "universal" bottle mounted reg and thus made the entire valve block into one single plenum. Still.. needs more volume still IMO but we need to start somewhere i guess. Expect new reg to show up within the next couple of days.
While at it i will try a larger bottle too.
On a whole though, have used her at full fill pressure (232 bar), and she´s moving along fine. At that rate i see them 20 grain pills exit around the 960 mark or so (tuned down a tad).
Haven´t gotten around to measure the volume it hands me but if that is around the 30cc mark i´m all to happy with that.

Have to say though, the age of the design shows. It´s.. how shall i put this? It´s "intricate" to the build, and rather much to no avail really. Anyways...
I hope to have this thing settle around the 45J mark or so when done. That way it´ll be a perfect "ratter" out to and incl 100 yards i´d say.
..and look REAL good doin it.

 

[emack1984]

I'm in the process of building a RAW .177 slugger ..I'll let ya see the results when done, good or bad.
Joe

Did you ever finish your. 177 raw slugger ? I am very interested as I want to build one

 

[Mike_Lenardon]

My .177 Wolverine HP begs to differ. Shoots 13.43gr JSB Knock Outs very good at 975 fps for 28 FP. Of course the beauty of using slugs (even at only a .067 BC) at 100 yard it is still going 800 fps for a touch over 19 FP.
View attachment 401524

Dereck
That is one pretty gun you got there. I'm not one for long guns but that one sure tickles my fancy.
Mike

 

[beerthief]

Subjectivity. You see a 30 foot pound .22 as "standard" - folks like me that started the hobby shooting springers and co2 airguns see anything much over 20 fpe as a "magnum" , and that is just one example. I would venture to guess there are many more perspectives than airgun calibers.

and then there is ME ! Magnum to me is 14 FPE and i think "can i tune it down to a more reasonable level , say, 10 FPE ? "

 

[Struckat]

I am with you on that Beerthief! But I do have one “Cannon” at 30+ fpe, but that’s a 22.

my two springers and 1701/1720 are my normal power.