Is a .30 caliber airgun REALLY deadlier than a .25?
- Thread starter Baker Airguns
- Start date
Mice can be taken with .177 doubtless.
The discussion is about suitability for javalina or wild turkey or bobcat or coyote size animals of of .25 Cal compared to .30 Cal.,
For all those I would prefer to have a .30 Cal with the customary 80 foot pounds on my hands than a .25 with the customary 55 foot pounds ..... Always.
And if both rifles were equaly 65 foot pound, I would prefer also the .30 Cal.
What is also a fact is that you need a pellet, on both calibers, that is hard enough to penetrate where you want to place the shot.
Upvote 0
G
Guest
Guest
I've done many tests with different media, and while these tests were interesting on bullet performance, they rarely applied to real-world scenarios. Ballistic gel, new paper, and clay are constant media, and live tissue is not. I've had bullets tumble or do a ninety-degree turn. I've shot canine size animals on the farm and tracked the actual wound channel as well as organ damage and failure. In a large target, a pellets will drill a straight line wound, and the caliber dictates the size of the wound channel. Expansion is of no value and is the difference between a single or double lung. Penetration of a .25 and .30 are equal at the same feet per second. Foot pounds of the applied energy is only handicapping the larger caliber. I believe the failure of killing the hog was due to the pellet being too soft. You can use all the energy you want on playdough, but it will not penetrate a wall.
Upvote 0
Have no fear, youngbuck.
There will be a part II to this video coming this Friday.
This time, real flesh is the testing media...I will show you the difference in tissue damage between the .25 and .30...and I'll show you why the .30 didn't penetrate the hog skulls.
You're absolutely correct about the importance of penetration...such as the single or double lung issue.
Shot placement and penetration are the two most important factors with an airgun...period.
-Donnie
Upvote 0
G
Guest
Guest
Donnie, One thing to consider in your test is that most stock .25 airguns are 40 to 50 fpe. High-powered are still relatively new to the market and would not be the norm as many feel they would limit their pellet selection.
Upvote 0
I would like to share some pictures of trajectory of a .357 pellet in a chest shot on my second white tailed deer.
Please look at the damage on ribs. Look at the size.
Following Donnie line of thinking a .25 Cal would have cause the same damage. Impossible, IMO:
Pellet (JSB 81.02 grain) was recovered after traspasing the scapula (shoulder)within the bone and the skin on the opposite side of entrance.
This is reality and not suppositions on gel or tins of pellets.
An this is the rifle that did the job:
Please look at the damage on ribs. Look at the size.
Following Donnie line of thinking a .25 Cal would have cause the same damage. Impossible, IMO:
Pellet (JSB 81.02 grain) was recovered after traspasing the scapula (shoulder)within the bone and the skin on the opposite side of entrance.
This is reality and not suppositions on gel or tins of pellets.
An this is the rifle that did the job:
Upvote 0
I would like to share some pictures of trajectory of a .357 pellet in a chest shot on my second white tailed deer.
Please look at the damage on ribs. Look at the size.
Following Donnie line of thinking a .25 Cal would have cause the same damage. Impossible, IMO:
Pellet was recovered after traspasing the scapula (shoulder)within the bone and the skin on the opposite side of entrance.
This is reality and not suppositions on gel or tins of pellets.
Trajectory was the wrong word to use there.
Nowhere in this entire thing have I ever once mentioned the .35 caliber at whatever energy you were using it.
Very much like your "formula", you are inventing relationships that do not exist.
Like I told youngbuck3006, Part II of this examination is coming this Friday.
It will clearly address your concerns.
Nice buck and good shot, BTW.
-Donnie
Upvote 0
Proportions among .25 and .30 are equivalent to proportions among .30 and .357
25.4 grain vs. 44.77 grain = 1.7625
44.77 grain vs. 81.02 grain = 1.8096
If you look at my criticized formula you can confirm that reality is really close to what it shows.
Next find some results of HEU with diverse pellets:
25.4 grain vs. 44.77 grain = 1.7625
44.77 grain vs. 81.02 grain = 1.8096
If you look at my criticized formula you can confirm that reality is really close to what it shows.
Next find some results of HEU with diverse pellets:
Upvote 0
Penetration is a "life" changer for sure.
Personally it has cost me a lot of money for food, clothing, college tuition etc...
Will
Upvote 0
Well, I always chuckle at these conversations. I guess I figure if one can kill whatever one is after, it's deadly enough. I'm kinda in the, Dead is Dead camp. If a .22 can dispatch a rat or Eurasian Collard Dove, so can a .25 and .30. A .30 is a waste, as probably so is the .25. I see the slug shooters doing wonderful things at extreme ranges, and birds exploding, which seems a complete waste of money when a pellet would have done the job instead of a heavy slug.
It all comes down to, pick the right tool for the job. .30 isn't needed for mice and a .22 can't take out some of the larger game. .22 will drift more than a heavier .30 in competition, but a .22 might be all that's allowed.
Pick the right tool for the job.
It all comes down to, pick the right tool for the job. .30 isn't needed for mice and a .22 can't take out some of the larger game. .22 will drift more than a heavier .30 in competition, but a .22 might be all that's allowed.
Pick the right tool for the job.
Upvote 0
I just finished PART II of this examination.
I posted it as it's own thread for anyone that would like to see it.
-Donnie
I posted it as it's own thread for anyone that would like to see it.
-Donnie
Upvote 0
A very unbiased and good explanation of the difference between 25 and 30 cal. Not to defend the 30 cal. but I use only 25 cal. because of the right balance between energy and accuracy at a given range, but since the test was done at 10 yards, and I think of how the 30 Cal performed I can't help by human nature that due to the weight of the ammo that the 30 Cal at a further distance would then generate the necessary velocity to meet or exceed "the speed and energy" of the 25 to improve or increase penetration. (hee-haw) lol. I am curious if you do another part 3 video on this same subject let's not do the 10 yards pork sirloin test (hope it didn't go to waste! (ha-ha.) Instead as a suggestion, a section of wild hog or deer with hyde on (maybe a head with skull intact for fairer comparison that would better reflect real world results. I don't disagree with your assessment in your part two video. But to even the playing field a little more. maybe shoot at 25 - 45yds and see if there is even a difference. What do ya think?
Oh BTW. Not to be blunt or contrary to the video. In general terms, you are right but since you brought in Alphabet org and the Military which I retired from and in combat arms with formal training I was compelled to respond but to enlighten or clear the perspective.
Note: When I put Federal Bureau of Investigation it changes to Alphabet.org on it's own.
Oh BTW. Not to be blunt or contrary to the video. In general terms, you are right but since you brought in Alphabet org and the Military which I retired from and in combat arms with formal training I was compelled to respond but to enlighten or clear the perspective.
- The Alphabet org tests only measure a bullet’s performance in a controlled setting and medium (ballistic gelatin). They do not account for the infinite variables encountered in real-world scenarios.
Note: When I put Federal Bureau of Investigation it changes to Alphabet.org on it's own.
Upvote 0
Interesting topic. I just watched Kentucky Balistics do a video on bulletproof glass and real life evidence shows a crossover between energy and velocity.
I use my .30 on trash bandits and whistlepigs because the slug just pops out the far side, no over penetration.
My .25 slugs seem to glide right through even they mushroom and overpenetrate.
Deadlier? How dead is dead?
I use my .30 on trash bandits and whistlepigs because the slug just pops out the far side, no over penetration.
My .25 slugs seem to glide right through even they mushroom and overpenetrate.
Deadlier? How dead is dead?
Upvote 0
skimming it, it misses one point i think .. the frontal area of a larger projectile transfers more energy and makes a larger wound that bleeds faster etc .. 'expansion' isnt really a factor below high powered rifles with so low ofa reliability it shouldnt even be considered in the debate .. and of course the idea that 'all things being equal' as far as energy is pretty dense also .. theyre 'not' equal .. the larger caliber does have more energy in practical application unless comparing a weeny gun to a high end one, on top of creating a bigger wound .. does it matter on a rat? .. no .. not really no lol ... neither do slugs, or super expando, or any other such nonsense ..
Upvote 0
Because he's comparing a super anemic .30 to a high octane .25
you don't buy a .30 to most likely run it at 70 FPE, and most .25 are more in the 50-60 FPE range, so......
.......a more fair comparison would be to test the .25 with 25gr pellet @ 900 fps vs the .30 with the 44gr pellet @ 900 fps
then, the .25 with the 34gr pellet at 900 fps vs the .30 with the 51gr pellet at 900 fps......or whatever velocity you decide.
Test the gun for what they are build up to do not strangle one gun and supercharge the other to get the results you want to get.
And that is why the test is extremely flawed.
Upvote 0