is anyone else concerned?

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AJ3

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Apr 24, 2015
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Was having a discussion with my neighbor who is also an avid air gunner sharing how impressed we are with the energy developed by the evolving large bore PCP's. Our discussion quickly evolved or degraded into the potential for a crime to be committed with a high powered PCP. Realize it isn't a practical choice for potential criminals vs firearms but most are probably not accused of being practical.
Just curious if anyone else thinks about the potential implications to our hobby that we enjoy in its currently unregulated state?
 
Actually, from a forensics perspective, I wonder if it might be a great weapon to commit a crime. I doubt the Alphabet org has nearly the same depth of knowledge about rifling patterns, there's no powder residue to worry about. It's nearly silent and wicked accurate in the right hands. Though, a quick Google search tells me that crimes committed with airguns are not that rare.

Scientific study on airgun deaths/injuries, accidental or intentional:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC500806/

NY Times article from 2000, clearly meant to sell more papers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/22/nyregion/shooting-death-in-brooklyn-highlights-air-gun-dangers.html

St. Paul MN man went a bit loopy and shot a cop:
http://www.kare11.com/story/news/crime/2015/01/06/st-paul-man-charged-in-officers-air-gun-shooting/21320729/

Murder in Reno NV committed with .22 cal airgun:
http://www.mynews4.com/news/story/Murder-suspect-arrested-in-air-gun-death/i_DRpjvsBEibQ6pG1RUNOQ.cspx
 
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As it stands right now, air guns In the US are under the radar. Most people I know have no idea of what is out there, I'm talking about avid hunters. My fear is that some idiot is going to kill somebody with one of the big bore guns and the left is going to be all over it. I hate to say it but we need to enjoy it while we can, I don't mean to sound negative but, unfortunately, that's the way things seem to go these days. I'm afraid the more powerful guns may end up requiring an FFL if something happens to bring media attention to them.
 
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Hi everyone
I agree that there can be some serious problems for us air gunners when air guns are misused and the press runs wild with half the story.
Case and point, there Is a city near me where it is illegal to sell air guns pellets bb's or anything airgun related,some kids shot out some windows and that was it! The Internet is a powerful tool, it brings together from all over the world, we better be ready to use it, to come together to fight anti airgun legislation before it becomes law! Keep your eyes and ears open and let us know if anything pops up we will use the Internet to stand up for are airgun rights. Thanks.
 
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Well, if the second amendment protects the right to bear Arms then that would need to be better defined to determine if that includes airguns. We all know the federal govn't doesn't consider airguns Firearms so one could see air guns being *legally* outlawed. Attorney's could argue one word for weeks. Arms. 

I'm slightly concerned but not overly. Our country loves guns more than any other country and I'm sure the NRA would go to bat to protect airguns. If anything I could see airguns becoming considered just like firearms by the fed. We're all surprised when we first learn they aren't so why wouldn't they eventually get the same designation?
 
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One crucial element in air guns of high powered nature, to their benefit/detriment, is the price tag. Many many crimes are committed with bb guns. By bb gun I mean the 15 dollar ones from Wal-Mart. This is because most people desperate for money can't afford a 150 dollar hipoint. If they could they wouldn't need to be trying to steal cash from a sandwich shop. Now, if you are talking about real air rifles, the kind that can be regularly devastating to a human sized target, those are 800 and up. If someone is going to spend that kind of money on a tool they would probably not be in need of a 100 dollar cash drawer. If we are talking about serious murderers that plan things out, then the tool is whatever is best for the job. I can get a silenced (200 dollar tax stamp), short barrel .22 semi auto with night vision for less than a stock Air Arms hunter without scope, rings, ammo, or power source. Part of my frustration with air rifle shooting is the entry cost. But on the other hand, it also keeps air rifle shooting safely in the realm of hobbyist. No one who doesn't love the sport is likely to invest the time and money in a rig when they could buy a 200 dollar pump shotgun and a 1000 rounds of ammo for 1/5th of the price and do thousands of times more lethal damage. Anyone who claims that the public is in any sort of unreasonable danger from air guns is scrounging for attention or completely misinformed.
I guess that doesn't mean that we should not be advocates for our rights. I am just saying that we probably have a better chance of defending air gunning than say American Rodeo. Safety of air rifle sports is probably much higher than bowling. It would not hurt to support an organization that would help advocate for that position.
 
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Yes, I’ve given this some thought and I am concerned. Air Rifles and Pellet Guns are not firearms and have no 2nd Amendment protection. They can be outlawed with a city ordinance which is much easier and faster than passing a state or federal law. I’m disappointed that the industry is not self-regulating. The drive is for larger calibers and more power. The boundaries will continue to be pushed until the privilege is lost or heavily regulated. This is America, it’s only a matter of time before someone does something really stupid with one of these Big Bore air rifles or a high powered pellet gun and the whole house of cards will fall. We’ve all seen videos on YouTube with unsupervised kids taking shots that shouldn’t be taken. Can you imagine what would happen if the anti-gun, anti-hunting folks took aim at air rifles and pellet guns? The NRA spends millions of dollars each year buying votes. The thought that the internet is going to rise up and save our hobby is just wishful thinking at best. 
 
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Air Rifles and Pellet Guns are not firearms and have no 2nd Amendment protection.
Click to expand...
That's not accurate^ That's exactly what my previous post was getting at. The 2nd amendment says "right to bear arms" it does NOT say "right to bear firearms". It's something I could see attorneys arguing for a long time. Air guns could very well be protected by the 2nd amendment. Arms, firearms - what's the difference??

"They can be outlawed with a city ordinance which is much easier and faster than passing a state or federal law."

How is that different than firearms? Firearms are illegal in Washington DC, New York City and other metropolitan areas. 
 
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I'm a retired police officer. Actually disabled in the line with 22.5 years in the mean streets.
Trust me. Most of the common criminal element is too STUPID to know how to work even a break
barrel air gun. Even if they did know how a break barrel works there is the problem
of caliber and "how do you aim this thang?" 
Honestly it don't take Dick Tracy to catch these idiots. However I managed to get 13 serious
injuries from the dummies. Stupid they are, fight they will.
In 22.5 years I know of one injury from a Co2 b-b pistol. Nothing else.
The idiot punk was stoned, playing with a Co2 b-b- gasser he knew zero about.
Pressed it against his temple and shot. B-B just entered the brain a bit.
He bled some, friends took him to the e.r. where they put him in a waiting room and FORGOT
him. He died of bleeding in the brain. Or what we call a brain anyway.
 
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Arod2000, this issue has been argued in state courts many times and it has NEVER prevailed. There is NO legal precedence supporting a 2nd Amendment right to bear air rifles or pellet guns. In each case the court determined that air rifles/pellets guns/BB guns do not meet the 2nd Amendment definition of "Arms" and are therefore not protected. If you are aware of ANY legal precedence to the contrary please post it here or provide a link. Thank you 
 
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Many people have gone to court and argued that a Municipalities ban on Air Rifles/Pellet Guns/BB Guns is unconstitutional and violates their 2nd Amendment right to bear “Arms”. EVERY court that has heard this argument has ruled that Air Rifles/Pellet Guns/BB Guns are NOT “Arms” and therefore the 2nd Amendment does NOT apply. It is a statement of fact that there is NO legal precedence defining Air Powered Guns of any type as “Arms”. I draw your attention to People vs. Nivar a court case challenging the Administrative Code of City of NY § 10-131 (b). “Defendant also argues that New York City’s ban on the possession of air pistols violates the Second Amendment…. he claims that air pistols are both “arms” and handguns that simply work differently from hand-held firearms. Thus he argues, air pistols are entitled to Second Amendment protection and the City’s outright ban is unconstitutional... based on the information provided by the parties about how air pistols operate and how air pistol manufacturers intend them to be used... this court must conclude that air pistols are not “arms”…. Accordingly, this court holds that Administrative Code of City of NY § 10-131 (b) does not implicate the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.” More than a dozen courts around the country have heard this same argument and arrived at this same decision. Legal precedence is unanimous, Air Powered Guns are NOT “Arms” and are NOT protected under the 2nd Amendment. 
 
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I am always concerned, more about needless and uneducated legislation/regulation and less about the criminal aspect. My state (NJ) calls an airgun a "firearm." Within it's borders I can't have one mailed to my house, but instead can only buy from an FFL holder (thankfully, I am not required by law to register it...yet). If I have to ship one (sale or warranty issue) I have to ship it through an FFL holder, incurring significant cost ("transfer fee") in addition to shipping costs. I basically have to pay a ransom to get MY gun back! Adding insult to injury, a couple years ago some clown determined that an air gun that is "moderated" for sound (like my Marauder and many others) is legally defined as a prohibited weapon (SILENCED FIREARM!?!), and can be charged as a second degree indictable offense ("felony" for those states still using the term) just for being caught possessing it. It happened here, and it CAN happen elsewhere. Don't call air guns "weapons," don't be careless in their use, storage, or transport. The more advanced and "mainstream" our hobby becomes, the more likely it is that some jackass trying to get his name on a law book cover will try to "regulate" our hobby, "for everyone's safety."
 
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