Is this normal? Do I have a bent barrel?

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JAMz

JAMz

Member
May 11, 2020
123
16
PR, United States
Today I scoped the new HW35e. I'm using two piece sport match mounts and a Athlon Talos scope. My first group at 10 yards is about 2 inches to the left and 5 inches low. I understand the barrel droop. But I'm worried about the left grouping. For several weeks I could swear that I'm seeing a slight curve of the barrel to the left. I tell my wife to check it and she tells me that it is in my brain. I put the gun flat on a table and with a bubble level check the stock and check the barrel and they seem leveled. I'm honestly lost here and don't know if this is normal or is it something that I need address in a warranty claim. 

The thing that got me worried was that when I got the gun, the original Weihrauch box had a damage at the end barrel. The outer box is fine but who knows when or how that end took a whack. 

So what do you think?

IMG_5357.1607556283.jpg



 
Well you shouldn't need seven inches of hold over at ten yards with any scope setup.

Iff

1) You leveled your rifle and scope when you mounted it.

2) You centered your cross hairs.

3) You shot those groups from a bench or a very steady hold.

Then something is likely wrong. That is six or seven inches low and two inches left at ten yards. It equates to about 20 MOA left and 40 MOA low (assuming you need a 2" hold over at that range to compensate for scope height above bore).

If all of the above is true and you can adjust it out, and you don't mind doing that, no worries. That is a lot of adjustment from center though. You might look at your mounts to make sure they are properly installed.

Last question I suppose. Is that a vertical string on the left or were you changing aiming points? You have all those pellet holes lined up left to right and strung out vertically. That ain't good unless you know why.

If you want to check the bore for a bend, put a bright light at one end of the tube and look through the bore. If there is a significant bend you will be able to see it in the bore.
 
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I did use a small bubble level to the level the gun while in the gun vise. Then I leveled the scope placing the level at the top of the elevation turret. That vertical string to the left is the progress while I was adjusting the Vertical turret. Then I adjusted the windage to the right and that is the group far right. I used the Cris-cross pattern to tighten the mount tops. It was getting dark so I will recheck all with good daylight.
 
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I did use a small bubble level to the level the gun while in the gun vise. Then I leveled the scope placing the level at the top of the elevation turret. That vertical string to the left is the progress while I was adjusting the Vertical turret. Then I adjusted the windage to the right and that is the group far right. I used the Cris-cross pattern to tighten the mount tops. It was getting dark so I will recheck all with good daylight.
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Its not a tilted scope then because if it were the vertical string would also show a tilt since the gun was in the vise.

I don't like a group that big (on the right after setup) at 10 yards. Seems somewhat large but ... dirty barrel, maybe wrong pellet, could account for that.

I bet tomorrow after you try a few groups you'll post a one hole group at 25 yards with 10 shots in it.

Was the scope centered before you started your adjustments?


 
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Think you have addressed all the potential mechanical issues. Barrel droop is a common thing and you may have to shim your scope to correct that. Presuming the scope is optically centered, when shooting at 10-12 feet the pellet should hit about the same distance below the line of sight as the bore is, if not you will need to correct that by shiming.

A springer has a lot of major moving parts (big springs, pistons and such) the create vibrations and can take a new springer a tin or two to settle down. Having (found) the right pellet makes a difference as well. 

How are you holding /shooting the rifle? Are you consistent? 

Springers can be hold-fussy and most of them do not like to be rested on a bag. Where you place your off-trigger hand (amongst other things) can really influence the shot. It is often the case of learning of how to hold the rifle and how tight/loose to grip it. 

For example, my TX200 like a tight hold; my FWB124 a loose hold and my FWB300 doesn't care. 

You might want to look up the "artillery hold" and try that to see if it helps.

If you know somebody familiar with springers you might ask the to try out your rifle to see if they have the same issues. Don't think that the barrel is bent but mechanical problems are possible.

Good luck!
 
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Try different scope rings before you get too crazy. I put a known good scope on a known good gun the other day and missed the pellet trap at 10 yards. (Don't tell my wife, I'm planning to replace the window next time she goes out of town).

Swapped out the dove tail rings for a picatinny riser and picatinny rings and shot dead center with the turrets centered. Actually, it shot a little high, so I swapped the rings back to front and then it was dead center vertical and horizontal.
 
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Short of using an air gun's barrel for a tire jack handle, it isn't easy to bend the steel barrel on a Weihrauch springer!

On a shrouded barrel pcp, however, the barrel tends to be a lot thinner and the infamous "Peyronei's Syndrome Barrel" can come into account!



Kind regards,

Uncle Hoot
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Well if one loaned his break barrel to an idiot who pressed the trigger while barrel cocked in open position then no more barrel droop!
 
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Its been 15 years since I scoped a gun. That was my SLR98 and Its been untouched since. So bear with me here. Finally I had the time to work on this with plenty of daylight. Here is what I did and what I found.

I took everything off the gun, re-centered the scope to optical center and took the BKL medium mounts from my TX200HC and mounted the scope on the HW35e. The vertical placement was even further away from my aiming point. The horizontal was the same 2 inches to the left. Adjusted the turrets and shoot several times with very nice results.

Then took everything off again from the HW35e. Re-centered the scope and put it back together with the Sportswatch mounts. The same exact pellet placement as before. So I adjusted for windage and elevation and let it be. Here is a 5 shoot group for 11 yards.

IMG_5369.1607888438.jpg


This is where it gets very interesting. When I put back the BKL mounts on the TX200HC with the optical centered Swift scope the pellet placement was dead on vertically (no adjustment needed for elevation) but it was the same two inches to the left like all the previous shoots taken these last few days since scoping the gun.

My Conclusion: Since both the HW35e and TX200HC are shooting exactly two inches to the left with different scopes and mounts the issue is me, not the gear. The HW35e shoots low with either mounts, but not the TX200HC. The TX200HC doesn't need any vertical adjustment. So therefore, yes there is droop in the HW35e break barrel. For now I'm not going to worry about adjustable mounts. I'm going to wait and see how this setup holds up. Thanks all for the comments.

IMG_5371.1607889722.jpg







 
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Severely off scopes are almost always the rings or bases used from my experience. You are probably going to find you run out or at max/near max elevation adjustment if you were 7" off at 10yds. Its not good at all to keep less than premium scopes near one extreme on the adjustments. Might be worthwhile to pick up a set of adjustable elevation rings for that gun and center it that way. 



usually 1" low at 10yds is a 30yd zero for most airgunning. 
 
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I'm having the same problem with my FWB 124. My scope has been zeroed and at 14 ft I'm about 3/8" right. Same as it was with a one piece UTG dovetail mount before switching over to to dovetail to picatinny droop base with Warne low rings. Ran a straight edge along the receiver to the end of the barrel and doesn't appear to be bent. My next step will be switching rings front-to-rear and see how that goes. Then, if need be, I'll flip the rings 180 degrees and put the ring base fastener heads on opposite side of the rifle. At 14 ft it took me 14 clicks to the left to get centered. Probably not all that bad. 


 
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I'm having the same problem with my FWB 124. My scope has been zeroed and at 14 ft I'm about 3/8" right. Same as it was with a one piece UTG dovetail mount before switching over to to dovetail to picatinny droop base with Warne low rings. Ran a straight edge along the receiver to the end of the barrel and doesn't appear to be bent. My next step will be switching rings front-to-rear and see how that goes. Then, if need be, I'll flip the rings 180 degrees and put the ring base fastener heads on opposite side of the rifle. At 14 ft it took me 14 clicks to the left to get centered. Probably not all that bad. 

Click to expand...

You will find that as you change pellets, the POI will shift left or right. This has to do with how much the pellet grips the rifling, the ballistic coefficient of the pellet, and how fast it is moving. There is also spin-drift in long range shooting, the bullet spinning against gravity makes it go off to the side, with my setup (17.5gr slug at 810fps) its 1/2" at 100yds (sighted in a 50). 3/8" at 5 yard is basically nothing. Now if you were 5-10" off there may be a problem. 

I just got done sighting in a scope. First shots are always at 7yds for me so I can get it on target at 50yds (14 moa at 7yd in this case). POI was about 3" to the right out of the box. It will be to the right again at 50yds, but not by much. 
 
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