It is official, lead ban in Denmark

California passes all sorts of silly laws and people are leaving the state after getting too much of its ideas. I'd hate to see our country follow the example of California - or Denmark for that matter. There seems to be some evidence of lead shot damaging waterfowl. I know of no real data showing rifle projectiles, air or PB, made of lead harming people through poisoning. Misplaced shots can harm animals but that is not limited to lead projectiles. Again, I know of no real data that lead poisoning is killing significant numbers of animals (including fish). This is just my guess but my guess is that the people that want lead projectiles and sinkers ban don't like hunting and fishing so they are just trying to raise the cost hoping people will stop doing it. It is just not a cause and effect situation where we know the lead causes damage and that banning them will result in benefit. Without that evidence, we would just be passing laws based upon mob rule or something, not science.

I agree that copper bullets for center fire PBs work and have been around for awhile. Some believe they are better than bullets with lead cores. But centerfire PBs develop 50,000 to 60,000 pressure which will push copper into the rifling. I doubt that our air rifles can push a copper projectile outward. Maybe a pellet, but not a slug. But it could easily be tested. I think for air guns, tin is the most practical metal. Same material used now. Copper is also much less dense than lead so even if it worked I don't think it would obviously be better than tin in air rifles. Copper is also relatively expensive. It works in PBs because a lighter weight copper projectile can be engineered to penetrate as well as a heavier lead core bullet. I just don't see how to do this for an airgun. But maybe somebody smarter than me will figure it out.

Let's hope that the crazy stuff is limited to Europe or maybe Europe + California. I agree we need to do reasonable things to protect the environment but banning lead projectiles without solid data there is a real benefit is just not a reasonable thing to do. Doesn't mean it won't happen but when we start doing things that don't make sense we are not headed in the right direction.
 
Agree. this is why the old Greeks came up with demos krtatos, as we need someone with insight and maybe a little brains to take be unpopular decisions.

The one and IMO very important thing that we have forgotten is the annual votes where the worst politicians would be voted out,,, like all out of "town" for 10 years.
I think the name is in the word ostracized

But we have forgotten this and so bad politicians plague us all.

If this post is too political, just say BAD BRIAN and i will delete it ASAP.
As Mark Twain said " If voting mattered,they wouldn't let you do it"

Still seems to be the case.
 
The “idea” of land of the “free” only applies when you are the only one on it or you own the land. On public land the idea quickly goes down the toilet when 2 “free” people cross path that want to be “free” slightly differently. California is the most populist state of the union and as the result you see a lot of the result of being “free” and realize the need for regulations. There is no freedom with out boundaries unless you are the only one left, more people equates to more regulations. It’s that simple, every year many in the US die of falling stray bullets minding their own business curtesy of “freedom”.
You illustrated the primary issue. Most people do not know what freedom is or how to define it. Or for that matter, rights. Freedom is what you can do without infringing on another's rights. Rights are what any and all individuals can do simultaneously without infringing on the equal liberty of another. Where any conflict does arise, that's when we need negotiation skills. Ultimately, a society can only maintain the freedom to the degree it is a moral society. The more moral, the more freedom. Since our society is debased, we are struggling to keep the little bit of freedom we have.
 
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Yeah.
Denmark are gaining new parties lately as others crumble under their own failures, where other much older parties also very much failing dont seem to get a dent.
And the new parties do not matter, they are made up of rats that have jumped ship from elsewhere.
We need new people, not these relics with 2 back pockets full of I Owe You receipts.
My heart goes out to you Peashooter. From over here in California, it sure seems dire, and y'all are on the front line. I suspect the food will dry up here as well, but only after y'all endure the freeze and the hunger. The worlds changing rapidly, and the people with the power are only getting more of it.
 
You illustrated the primary issue. Most people do not know what freedom is or how to define it. Or for that matter, rights. Freedom is what you can do without infringing on another's rights. Rights are what any and all individuals can do simultaneously without infringing on the equal liberty of another. Where any conflict does arise, that's when we need negotiation skills. Ultimately, a society can only maintain the freedom to the degree it is a moral society. The more moral, the more freedom. Since our society is debased, we are struggling to keep the little bit of freedom we have.


Wiser words have not been spoken! With internet out comes shameless me, me and me infantile mentality which to your point indicates the level of moral decade in our society which has drastically eroded our freedom. That is me ASSUMING we had higher level of morel equivalency but I like to believe so. I know, Disney believe BS! Hey I was season pass holder for over a decade. 😅
 
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Wiser words have not been spoken! With internet out comes shameless me, me and me infantile mentality which to your point indicates the level of moral decade in our society that have drastically eroded our freedom. That is me ASSUMING we had higher level of morel equivalency but I like to believe so. I know, Disney believe BS! Hey I was season pass holder for over a decade. 😅
It is definitely an interesting time to be alive. I'm conflicted as I almost miss less interesting.:LOL:
 
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Some interesting science:

I remember reading this when it first was published and it didn't get much press because it essentially admits that the lead ban to save the California Condor is ineffective, which is what started the whole lead ban in California. The research indicates that the condor is basically a doomed species unless humans provide massive amounts of support.
I believe ths science shows the lead ban has been effective with waterfowl, but I am not a duck guy so I don't know. It isn't working with the condors, as they also like to eat lead paint. I recall reading a study that indicated that a contributer to their decline was that we don't let large sea mammals rot on the coastline anymore, as it's pretty much all prime real estate or cliffs, and that was a staple food source for them. The oceans are all full of mercury and other toxins, so I'd imagine that wouldn't work out so well for them either. I think it's just a tough time for scavengers with dietary sensitivities to be alive, as the spoils are pretty contaminated these days...

I have always hunted with copper when using firearms because I like the way it works. Barnes and Nosler E-tips are accurate and provide devistating wound channels. But, copper likes speed to expand and we're for the most part playing in the slow lane with airguns.
I am sorry for the Danes to be experiencing this for airguns, and hope against hope that we continue to fly under the radar for as long as possible, and that I escape Kommiefornia before we have an airgun lead ban too.
 
qball -

WHAT ???

NO...place in California will allow solid "copper" ammo to be used, indoors or out..!! I've never even heard of more than one (maybe two) specialty (self defense ammo) ammo manufacturers that make solid copper ammo !
If...I'm not mistaken, I believe that you mean copper OVER lead ammo, or in .22 form, copper "clad" (plated) over lead. And even THAT's not completely fact. There's more than a few, both hand gun and rifle ammo that has exposed let (soft tip) at the tip of the slug offered, sold in California. Can be bought at any sporting goods store here.

Mike
I been shooting Barnes TSX bullets for years. All my hunting powder burners have solid copper ammo ready to go. Even have solid copper pistol ammo to carry in my self-protection arms, don't want the F&W saying I'm carrying non-lead ammo for hunting.