JSB New Heavy .25 cal Kings 100 yards half inch group and normal Kings group.

This is all very interesting! Thanks guys! I was really hoping that the Heavies would at least equal the the 44gr. .30's BC. I have tested the velocity of both the Mk1 and Mk2 out of my RAW HM1000x. The Mk1 shot at 728.3 fps and the Mk2 shot at 739. So 11 fps faster. I assume this is do to the smaller skirt diameter. Less drag in the barrel.
I have since increased the power with the Mk2 too 866 fps. Will be testing the accuracy with them today.
 
"30cal"This is all very interesting! Thanks guys! I was really hoping that the Heavies would at least equal the the 44gr. .30's BC. I have tested the velocity of both the Mk1 and Mk2 out of my RAW HM1000x. The Mk1 shot at 728.3 fps and the Mk2 shot at 739. So 11 fps faster. I assume this is do to the smaller skirt diameter. Less drag in the barrel.
I have since increased the power with the Mk2 too 866 fps. Will be testing the accuracy with them today.
Very much looking forward to your report. If I'm not mistaken, the RAW .25's use LW barrels.(?) We now know that this new JSB pellet does well in ST barrels and in Harry's vintage "super BSA" barrel. I have read short reviews of the pellet on Pyramyd Air's site, but the details were lacking. Yours will be the first thorough report I have seen - both using a LW barrel as well as a comparison of the two pellets. Yep - will be checking routinely until I see your post. :)

Do the MK2's weigh a small bit less than the MK1's?
 
Presently at the farm. FX Elite with original ST barrel shooting Mk 1 heavies to sub inch 5 shots at 102 yards yesterday.
Some days ago a big buck rabbit mistakenly hopped up the dam bank and sat two paces in front of my 102 yd plow disc in the golden light of the rising sun!
He then lay down for a long sleep.ST plus heavies is deadly too .... regards, Harry.
 
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Hi Ted nice to talk to you! Yes the RAW uses a Lothar Walther Barrel. I have just come in from my first comparison of the Mk1 and Mk2. at 50 yards. Its very close but so far I have to give the edge to the Mk2.




These are 5 shot groups.



Its a bit easier to see the size on the back side. In the upper left Mk2 group 4 shots went through the same hole.



This is the Mk2's at 32 yards. Shot these groups to warm up the gun and myself.
 
"Ted"
"Wingman"I got a BC of .0434 at 110ft ASL and 17 deg celcius for the Mk 1 heavies in a S/T. Al testing I have done says yes they have a higher BC than the 44gr .30cal bricks although I have yet to test the .30's in a smooth twist, I would estimate the results will mirror the .22 and .25cal results of the S/T having a lower B.C than in the L/W Ive been shooting.
How have you found the accuracy of the .25 heavies in the S/T at 100yds Ted?
More info confirming my numbers! :) Thanks Phil.

Accuracy is definitely there. This is a full magazine (16 shots) at 100 yards shooting through a smooth twist barrel (FX Impact). These shots were filmed through the scope with a slow-motion camera, and will be part of the final review for the Impact. The two low shots were #3 and #4. The day was slightly breezy, and I suspect a small down draft got hold of them as the wind came over the bunker. Shots 5-16 were MOA. Slow motion footage revealed clean flight (no wobble), and there was no "slice" or "draw" - strait up; strait down.

The crazy thing is that FX did not design the barrels to shoot the new Heavy .25 pellet. They didn't even know how well their ST barrels shot it until I showed them my data. The .25 barrels are essentially designed to shoot the .25 king pellet. So, there may still be room for improvement!

Great 100 y results from the smooth twist Ted! Thats got to put a smile on your face :) I have been doing loads of testing with this pellet and was very excited when I heard Pavel was working on it.. 
My 100m testing with the Mk 2 heavies and the S/T was not so pleasing.. I got very close to 1 moa but was plagued with flyers that insisted on ruining a good group.
What velocity have you got them tuned to in the Impact? I may have been running them too hot for that barrel but my end goal is a 300 yard MOA bench gun.

Yesterday right before dark I made the most of a rare still evening in our very windy spring season.. 
I have one of my 18.5" BSA loanstar barrel (the same vintage as Harry's) set up on a test rig consisting of a buddy bottle fed HUMA reg in a short tube with a large plenum and custom receiver, it is my pellet/barrel testing platform but will soon be a very special custom long range PCP designed to shoot these new .25s exclusively. 
I have custom built a valve to make the most of this shorter barrel without wasting air which leans more towards a big bore pistol valve.. Currently tuned to its maximum velocity of 1025fps. As you may know I really want to push this new pellets long range capabilities.
So with a 18x Falcon menace scope attached I set it up to stretch its legs..


 


My first shot just missed the gong and you can see its impact in the sand bank about an inch right of the gong.
after a little windage correction the next 5 hit with a convincing clang!
 


My calculations say that this pellet is impacting at this range with a solid 14ftlbs still and the state of these couple of recovered pellets would back that up..




"Just" outside 3" with a rushed group in light breezes.. this new pellet has more potential than people realise. 

 
 
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Whoa! 1000 fps? Gonging a 5" target at 300 yards. Using a buddy bottle and action?!? You gotta show us that rig :D.

My continuing data collection has me thinking the BC may be a bit better than my original calculations. On the "worst" day the BC calculated at .042. On the "best" day, .048. Unfortunately, neither day was completely windless. So, until I get my chance to shoot in one of those coveted 100m INDOOR ranges I see on Youtube from time to time, I will have to make my best guess - perhaps split the difference at .045.

Very pretty countryside you have there.
 
"FearnLoading"What in the world. Did I understand this right @Wingman .......was the gong at 300 yards ?
yup... 300 yards with a PCP is not a new concept.. here's Ed doing it with a .22 Matador at 275 meters (300 yards). with the right twist rate and velocity of a high BC consistent pellet its possible to get good accuracy all the way out there.




I have done this with my .22 Matador too but with no where near the consistency of my new .25 cal project. I have been harping on for years to JSB and anyone else listening for a heavier high B.C .25cal pellet to push the long range limits of a PCP/pellet combo.
I hope to convince L/W to make me a custom 1-15" twist .25cal barrel and lift the muzzle velocity a little higher to just under mach 1 as my end goal is MOA at 400 yards with these new pellets. Even at that range the new 34gr JSB should be right around the 8.5ftlbs mark. We will see...
 
"Ted"Whoa! 1000 fps? Gonging a 5" target at 300 yards. Using a buddy bottle and action?!? You gotta show us that rig :D.

My continuing data collection has me thinking the BC may be a bit better than my original calculations. On the "worst" day the BC calculated at .042. On the "best" day, .048. Unfortunately, neither day was completely windless. So, until I get my chance to shoot in one of those coveted 100m INDOOR ranges I see on Youtube from time to time, I will have to make my best guess - perhaps split the difference at .045.

Very pretty countryside you have there.
:) My barrel test "rig" is embarrassingly industrial looking in its current prototype stages and I had it bolted down to a lump of scrap walnut on sand bags for the long range shots.. its all in bits again while I modify the valve a little more but here's a few pics of it in a state of disarray..
I dropped it in a cricket WST stock and fitted a scope for the photos but once I am happy with the figures it will eventually get a nice walnut stock and a 300 ish cc air tube etc.









 

I got it on target with a 3 foot sheet of ply before moving to the gong so it wasn't quite as unrehurst as 6 random shots at a 5" gong but the early tests look promising.
On another note the 1-17" twist L/W (German made) 24" blank showed pellet instabilities at about 250 yards and the groups totally fell apart at 300 yards. A faster twist will be needed to shoot the longer ranges with this pellet. Hopefully I can get a bit more velocity out of this 18" long 1-16" twist BSA as I think it will do better even if I loose a little air efficiency.

Dont get too hung up on exact BC figures as it is an ever changing number when dealing with a subsonic projectile in an ever changing environment.. take an average on a good and bad day when using it in ballistic programs etc as there are also large intolerances with turret clicks in the cheaper end of scopes too.. some tradjectory anomalies I simply cant explain and like to strike off as pellet variation or mechanical turbulence from the range surroundings.
I have been using a B.C input of 0.0520 in Strelok with my BSA barrel and a 100 yard zero and that gets me on an A4 page at 300 yards on most days with the falcon scope (currently back on my Edgun) and thats good enough for me to fine tune from.

Re: countryside, yup it sure is nice to wake up to each day.. my wife and I searched for 10 years before we found the perfect property for us to settle down.. 
500 yards of unrestricted space and a hillside was high on my wish list.. I live 10 minutes from this small mountain range of national forest park and clear trout filled streams and a 35 minute drive on the other side of this range is the Tasman Sea which in the summer brings some of the best spearfishing in the world!

Oh but dont tell anyone else... :)




 
Shot my marauder .25 at 104 yards from the bipod (no back rest) with the jsb kings and the heavy's MK1 . Normal kings at 870 fps and the heavy's at 790 fps. externally regulated at 170 bar (huma inline regulator)

Accuracy is comparable. See photobucket (first three groups normal kings) Its a good pellet. At a low speed the heavy's performe well. Good to see they also shoot well at a higher velocity . Inner circle is 3 centimeters. Second time i shot with the new discosrus stock. Find it more difficult to hold the crosshair steady on target because te stock feels really light at the back end.

Hawke scope 6.5 -20

http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Jan_Peter_Notebomer/media/WP_20151203_011_zpsypat9cjq.jpg.html?o=0

 
Nah not one of mine.. just one of many rattling around in my box of bits.. I think it was a 10/22 muzzle break as it has a cut out for the front sight.
I tried a few suppressors and muzzle breaks to strip away some of the massive air blast from the muzzle and hopefully help the pellets to recover and stabilize a little quicker.. unlike bullets when they get a fishtail wobble, pellets are a high drag design that "self stabilize" like a shuttlecock to some degree.
It maybe helping a little with barrel vibration too..
Not enough testing to be conclusive at this stage but it sure looks cool right? :)
 
Hey guys. I've seen some great groups at 100 yds here. Ive been shooting the mk1's through my wildcat. At 50 yds 1/2 inch groups are attainable but at 100+ yds groups open up to 5 inches. Cant figure it out. Loading them into the breech I feel resistance and scraping, leaving tiny metal shavings. Does anyone lube these pellets? Are the mk2's more accurate at 100 yds?
 
"FastEddie" at 100+ yds groups open up to 5 inches. Cant figure it out. Loading them into the breech I feel resistance and scraping, leaving tiny metal shavings. Does anyone lube these pellets? Are the mk2's more accurate at 100 yds?


I presume this to be an ST barrel.
There are two places to look for the trouble. The breech end in the chamber/leade and the internal lip of the transfer port (if it has one). The latter can cause marks and even shaving of the head and skirt of the pellet.
The offending lip or lead deposits thereabout has to be smoothed out.
Then the muzzle end rifling of the last couple of inches of barrel should also be examined and cleaned of any deposits.
Fredrik of FX sent me a short bristle brush with which to clean the last few inches of my ST barrels, something I do regularly despite reading of others who never clean their ST rifling in those last couple of inches of barrel. He would not have sent the brush if he didn't expect me to use it.
In an ST barrel the pellets "strip" through that rifling and only pick up roughly a quarter of the rifling's twist rate. That couple of inches of rifling is nominally 1:16 inches, but the emerging pellet spins only once every 45 to 90 inches of travel depending upon pellet weight and velocity (momentum). That constant stripping of lead has to have some effect on deposits at that point. If it becomes such that the pellets get more shaved off one aspect then we have the scenario for an unbalanced flight.
The head of the second pellet shot in this video was slightly nicked and produced the result you see at 71 yards. At 100 yards that shot would have been much further out of the main group. If all pellets had been nicked they would have formed a larger group. These were shot with a conventional barrel but the same effect will prevail from any shaved pellet regardless of barrel type.

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v392/Kyogle/Kodiaks4shotsN2spiralflier71yards.mp4

Now, assuming your pellets are being damaged, the groups up to 50 yards can be quite good because the damage would have in a sense been "indexed' and so would emerge from the barrel with about the same orientation. Their spirals would be somewhat synchronized. However as the range increases, so the air currents and density somewhat changes. This results in the spirals losing their synchronization and the groups generally then become elongated or even somewhat round with a hollow center.

Of course I am only referring to very good pellets which are capable of precision shooting at longer ranges but which have been damaged. There are bucket loads of pellet makes and types that will not hold groups at longer ranges no matter what one may do to try to make them conform.

Perhaps try to give your barrel a good scrub out and check for metal lips or lead deposit around the transfer port. Chamber a pellet properly seated then push it back out with a suitable rod. You may find your answer in scratch marks or grooves in the pellet head and or skirt.

If this appears to be just "academic" then I have many SM videos I have taken supporting the response using contrived damaged pellets.

And of course there are other reasons for poor groups at longer ranges.
About the Mk 1 pellet. One of my first 100 yd groups was right on 0.50" ctc. So potentially, yes, they are accurate, though other rifles may not allow for such groups.
Kind regards, Harry.
 
Thanks Harry. I gave the barrel a good cleaning and the groups really tightened up significantly. I think Ted wrote that these mk1's like a clean barrel. He was right. 'as usual' lol. I still haven't heard about the mk2 pellet accuracy at 100 yds. I've seen the post comparing the accuracy of the two at 50.How about 100?