Copy that. You want a wood gun. Wood is warm and aliveI've looked and looked at the Zelos... and I just can't like it. Brings far too many skeletons outta the closet for me.
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Other Just how much must I pay for "Accuracy" in a PCP gun?
- Thread starter EdCaffreyMS
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Firstly, welcome to the Rabbit Hole®. If you are expecting one ragged hole at 50 yards, then I doubt you'll find anything that will do it, close but you know the thing about horseshoes and hand grenades. Do yourself a favor and get some AEA pellets, I really should get the franchise for them, that and Mobile 1 oil. Here's the deal if you don't like them, I'll buy them off you and pay shipping. You need to tune your airgun, get the 'perfect' pressures/speed for that gun and pellet, anything else and you'll have a shotgun. My absolute favorite PB is my Savage A17 HMR. We all have futzed with airguns and learned as we went. Some gave up, some have guns that just, well, shoot well and consistently but we always get those one or two pesky flyers. Also, airguns are VERY susceptible to wind, the slightest gust and it get very interesting very quickly. Oh and don't believe the nonsense about FX's having a shifting POI, I've got two Mavericks they can sit in the case for weeks and are within 1/4" at 25 yards when I finally take them out. As good as my more expensive Raptor. I should add that my normal hunting range is 50 to 125 yards for Ground Squirrels.
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Hello Ed.
I had just the opposite effect with powder burners PB rifles. I have been a gunsmith for many years , and built , and sold 100's of AR-15 style rifles.
I built , and sold many FAL rifles in my time as well. My favorite caliber was the .243 ,aka the 6 mm. When I first got into PCP rifles I watched many many videos on you tube. I own another Snow Peak Arms SPA built rifle , but sold by Umarex it's called a Zelos it is in .22 caliber. I am shooting 28 grain HP slugs like a laser beam. I can make 40 dots with a Sharpie , and hit everyone of them. I want to tell about a rifle I think you will like very much. It is a more traditional looking rifle , and has a bolt action as well
You already have a Barra just the wrong one. Take a look at the 250Z videos on you tube. I own 2 Barra 1100Z's 1st gen unregulated that will shoot dime size groups all day. I believe the 250Z is another SPA product. Watch the video's on you tube where that 250Z is being shot out to well beyond 100 yards Oh yeah there only $450. Regulated just means every shot will use the same amount of air with very slight variations, so as long as you don't drop off the regulator each shot will be consistent.
As a matter of fact pick any airgun you might be thinking about and type it into the search bar on you tube like this
Barra 250Z reviews , or Zelos Reviews.
Testing slugs , and pellets of different weights is just like using 4 different brands of .223 ammo one will always be the best. Tell me what you think
OldVet wants to know.
I had just the opposite effect with powder burners PB rifles. I have been a gunsmith for many years , and built , and sold 100's of AR-15 style rifles.
I built , and sold many FAL rifles in my time as well. My favorite caliber was the .243 ,aka the 6 mm. When I first got into PCP rifles I watched many many videos on you tube. I own another Snow Peak Arms SPA built rifle , but sold by Umarex it's called a Zelos it is in .22 caliber. I am shooting 28 grain HP slugs like a laser beam. I can make 40 dots with a Sharpie , and hit everyone of them. I want to tell about a rifle I think you will like very much. It is a more traditional looking rifle , and has a bolt action as well
You already have a Barra just the wrong one. Take a look at the 250Z videos on you tube. I own 2 Barra 1100Z's 1st gen unregulated that will shoot dime size groups all day. I believe the 250Z is another SPA product. Watch the video's on you tube where that 250Z is being shot out to well beyond 100 yards Oh yeah there only $450. Regulated just means every shot will use the same amount of air with very slight variations, so as long as you don't drop off the regulator each shot will be consistent.
As a matter of fact pick any airgun you might be thinking about and type it into the search bar on you tube like this
Barra 250Z reviews , or Zelos Reviews.
Testing slugs , and pellets of different weights is just like using 4 different brands of .223 ammo one will always be the best. Tell me what you think
OldVet wants to know.
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I'm hesitant to say about my guns but one I got last October is very close to shooting like a 22lr..-"if you want an airgun thats going to compare well with a decent rimfire you're going to end up paying $1200 or more for it."
I'm beginning to realize that harsh reality.
-"I also might lower my expectations."
That's a tough one. I'm still having trouble NOT comparing airguns to powder guns. Also, being rather new to the airguns, I'm still having difficulty wrapping my head around having to pay $1200 for a gun that will only shoot mediocre compared to what I'm used to seeing out of powder guns. The first airgun I purchased was a Benjamin Marauder, at about $625 for it on sale. I was sure that something must be wrong with it, when the best groups I could get out of the box were golf ball size at 25yrds. I was comparing it/building my expectation based on what I could do with my $400 10/22s. I honestly expected the Marauder to be able to shoot 1/4" groups at 30 yards. This thread has tempered my expectations, and I will be revisiting that gun.
My whole reason for getting into airguns is that I've always loved to hunt. Which is one of the reasons I settled in Montana after my military career. However, I became a victim of the burn pits in the Middle East (3 tours), and was diagnosed with Lupus, interstitial lung disease, and Lupus Nephritis (Kidney disease), and my lung capacity will not allow me to to run the mountains and chase critters anymore.... but I see/saw airguns as a way to continue at least shooting.
I am so glad that I posted this thread, and so pleased that experienced airgunners are willing to share their knowledge. Yeah, I gotta make some attitude adjustments, temper some expectations, and save my pennies until I can afford one of those $1200+ guns. I gotta sell a couple more knives and convince my Mrs that I "need" a $1200+ air gun!
Many Thanks for taking the time to respond!
it's a airforce Condor, I actually got two because I couldn't make up my mind, a regular Condor 22 caliber and well it seems more powerful than my 22lr lever action when shooting 40 grain slugs..
I only have one now, airforce Condor SS 22 caliber, it's a little bit tamer, I couldn't stand the regular Condor without the Donny FL shogun moderator.. and I had to use a 123 ring lock on it if I wanted to shoot anything less than 25 grain pellets otherwise they were supersonic.. it would actually be just under supersonic at max power with the 34 grain JSB beasts..
the shorter barrel on the SS Condor I guess doesn't keep the valve open as long so if turned all the way down you can shoot regular pellets and yet it will still put 40 grain slugs out with plenty of authority when turned up.. I do like how it's got the built in moderator too.
point of impact stays very consistent as long as I don't get having too much fun and shoot the pressure too low.. I normally start at 3000 PSI and try to remember to refill around 2500 psi.
it shoots and hits under a dime size groups at 30+50 yards..I zero it to 50 but it is right on at 30 as well..
it's a very simple gun and not much to go wrong with it..
the thing I like and dislike at the same time is the butt stock air tank.. it's well balanced and fairly light but my issue is that my cheek bone is too big I guess but I have to use 5/8"risers plus the extra tall rings so it ends up being in my opinion too high off the barrel..I prefer to have the sight line as close to the barrel as possible..
I know the solution is to get a talon tunes drop-down but I really hesitant to do that because I was told it voids the warranty..
for a single shot I think it is the simplest gun on the market.. yes it would be nice if it had a magazine.. but per caliber size as far as I know the airforce line is the most powerful PCP.. whether it's 22 caliber or 308 or 45 caliber..
Mark
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so I have the airforce Condor 22 caliber and it's shooting dime size groups at 50 yards.. that's when I have a good day, brace really well off the deck railing and don't go too low on air.. yes I did something really stupid..was shooting and having fun with 40 grain slugs and then it wasn't hitting the correct spot so I adjusted the scope and got a few more and then it was way off.. yes I had shot below 1000 psi..I guess the valve stays open longer with the heavy slugs so definitely a lot less shots..
fortunately I have it dialed back in after messing with the scope instead of keeping track of the pressure..
I don't know if I got lucky but I had a regular Condor and the Condor SS and both are very accurate, only thing that has polished the barrel is the pellets and slugs..
yes it would be nice to have a magazine but I think it's like shooting a air powered sharps rifle
Mark
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I think the zelos would look much better if they put a bottle on it.. it looks like it was designed for a bottle and they took a shortcut and put a tube on it.I've looked and looked at the Zelos... and I just can't like it. Brings far too many skeletons outta the closet for me.
Mark
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that's what I don't like about the airforce Condor, shoots well but I really like the old conventional rifle style.
Mark
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I haven't read each post closely just skimmed thru. Something I will add is. What do you want the gun for? You can have a gun that shoots a pellet that is maybe less than 600 fps that can shot lights out at 30 yards punching paper. like my P Rod But that gun may be useless for shooting a critter. I have several 22 air rifles. My taipan gets shot the most. It is accurate at 65 75 yards shooting 18 grain pellets. But if I have a pest after my chickens I grab my paradigm that shoots 25 grain pellets @ 940 fps is accurate to a little further and has more energy. And as has been said my Huntsman or Wolverine 177s are tack drivers under 60ish punching paper or field targets.
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I think on deciding a pcp airgun is only part of a equation. After purchase service is also important in my book or a least have a reputable airgun smith you can rely on for a particular brand. If you don't like to tinker or not good at it, I highly recommend getting a Kalibrgun as a first sub $1500 from Charlie of Georgia Airguns as a one stop shop for Kalibrguns. He knows the brand inside and out. I believe you also get life time reseal if you purchase from him. I had a Kalibrgun that I bought elsewhere and was having regulator issues after 4000 shots. Charlie did a reseal of the whole gun, fixed the dreaded slow first shot, tuned it to the grain of pellet I wanted, adjusted the trigger how I wanted, and made the gun more accurate by working his magic. His price for the service is affordable. I seriously thinks he under charged for his expertise in my opinion, gladly pay double his asking price for his service. The newly worked gun lasted 8000 shots before needing another reseal of the regulator. I only wish he carries more brands as I would only purchase from him if thats the case.
Reading your first post, it appears you had spend more than $1000 on all those low end guns. Which has thus far, brought you nothing put frustration. As many had said on this forum, buy once cry once. But the fun is all worth it.
Reading your first post, it appears you had spend more than $1000 on all those low end guns. Which has thus far, brought you nothing put frustration. As many had said on this forum, buy once cry once. But the fun is all worth it.
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Some of the newer guns (the Revere) have the biathlon cocking lever compared to the older bolt style. The newer style are more expensive than the older bolt guns.
You mentioned in a previous post your area is always windy. That doesn't bode well for consistent groups with an airgun, regardless of airgun cost.
So that begs another question: Are you willing to shoot slugs? Higher ballistic coefficient from slugs will give you better groups. My Tikka t1X shooting 40 gr. will outshoot my Taipan .25 25 gr. on a windy day, hands down.
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LOL! I have £500 guns that will put my £3000 guns to shame, go figure, In fact I have had more problems with new expensive guns than I have with cheap SH guns.
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Why still talk about powder burners,ok ,it is a different game with air guns.Yes the RAW is the way to go.,for less the Crossman Challenger is the way to go. Truth there are plenty of accurate air guns.You are the one that must make up your mind....I think the fit is important.
Many people here got a lot of money and can afford to spend it on air guns and equipment,many here do not have that kind of money,yet still have accurate air guns and enjoy them just as much.
Then we got the scope freaks . I was into buying knives,a bought a lot ,then I looked into the newer steels being used,more expensive,they hold and edge better,that is me,I just want to use it,not abuse it, do not what to mess around with it.....it is a Tool....
Ask yourself ,if you want a tool,or some-thing you want to fiddle with?
Many people here got a lot of money and can afford to spend it on air guns and equipment,many here do not have that kind of money,yet still have accurate air guns and enjoy them just as much.
Then we got the scope freaks . I was into buying knives,a bought a lot ,then I looked into the newer steels being used,more expensive,they hold and edge better,that is me,I just want to use it,not abuse it, do not what to mess around with it.....it is a Tool....
Ask yourself ,if you want a tool,or some-thing you want to fiddle with?
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This in its self is the biggest detriment to low bc projectiles like pellets. I live in ne pa and there are days i’d love to be out shooting like today but i’m inside hiding from a cold breeze! So many times here i go out to shoot and if you put out a wind flag 1 min it blows 1 way @ 5 mph still the next and blowing 10 mph the opposite way the next and shooting a 13 gr 177 @ 50 yds a 2 mph wind will push it .8 so you don’t get good groups!
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See that is the thing. You have them in a case. Take them out in the woods and bump them around, lay them down, hoist them up into a blind, drop them, lean them in the corner. Does it keep dead on? This is a problem with air rifles in general. Where there is smoke there is fire and the FX POI shift is all over the web, if it is not a truth, why is it so widely reported. And that for a very, very expensive piece of equipment, it should be rock solid and able to live in the real world of bumps and knocks, not in a padded hard case.
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Most air guns you have to treat like glass. In general I apply this.
Only my AEAs are rock solid you can pick it up by the barrel with no poi shift
AEAs need TLC elsewhere though so I’m not recommending
Only my AEAs are rock solid you can pick it up by the barrel with no poi shift
AEAs need TLC elsewhere though so I’m not recommending
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my favorite would be the long barrel and the tank,or even a bigger tank.. lots of high power shots.. I'm curious if you know how big the magazine will accept? will it handle jsb 34 grain beast pellets? how about slugs? I've been shooting 40 grain zan and H&N slugs out of my Condor..
also does it have enough to get whatever is the largest it will take up to speed.. oh I suppose caliber matters, I'm asking and shooting 22 caliber..
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I keep them in a case because my garage is a f'n mess. I take them out of the case in the garage, and haul them outside, sometimes that that lovely carrying handle they call a scope, or by the barrel, or by the grip, and usually I bump the barrel. The POI 'issue' isn't 'widely reported' those that have taken the time to make things are properly snug don't have issues, just cases of squeaking wheels.
Before I got the cases, they were in the back of my car, bouncing around to my permission. I like to keep my stuff nice, I have a 20 year old car that is like new, ditto for my daily driver of 11 years, and my 25 yo fun car is pretty darn good on the outside, interior is a bit warn but oh well, it's still a blast to drive. I got into PCP's because I couldn't use my A17 at my permission, a dog on the property didn't like it, so, out of consideration I got into the 'hobby'. Should the darn things cost as much as they do, not really, but it is what it is.
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Welcome Ed!
I love knives, especially sole authorship Art Knives, so I have great respect for them and the craftsmen that have this talent.
I'm coming in late, haven't read most of this thread, but let me just add one thing right now, and that is pellets have very low ballistic coefficients and blow quite a bit in the wind, both to the side and also in the vertical. The farther out the target is the more exaggerated this becomes. A 22rf bullet has 4 times the BC of a middle weight 17 cal pellet, which is hugely different. A recent example was at a FT match in which the wind was gusting into the mid 20's. I had to aim 3-5 inches away from the center of the kill zone to knock some of the 55 yard targets down. With a 22rf it would have been 1.25-1.75" out. Also I'm sure the vertical aspect would have been triple what my highly precise pcp FT rifle would be normally.
I love knives, especially sole authorship Art Knives, so I have great respect for them and the craftsmen that have this talent.
I'm coming in late, haven't read most of this thread, but let me just add one thing right now, and that is pellets have very low ballistic coefficients and blow quite a bit in the wind, both to the side and also in the vertical. The farther out the target is the more exaggerated this becomes. A 22rf bullet has 4 times the BC of a middle weight 17 cal pellet, which is hugely different. A recent example was at a FT match in which the wind was gusting into the mid 20's. I had to aim 3-5 inches away from the center of the kill zone to knock some of the 55 yard targets down. With a 22rf it would have been 1.25-1.75" out. Also I'm sure the vertical aspect would have been triple what my highly precise pcp FT rifle would be normally.
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